Jews and Sikhs: How Similar Can We Get?

Archived_Member1 · #37 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

One main difference I think is temperament. Most of the Jewish people I have met are very peaceful and generally professional people. I think the equivalent of the hot head Punjabi brawler type doesn't exist in that community.

Jews lack a martial philosophy in their religion... in jewish history and myth, God has always taken care of their enemies for them while they fled. they have not been taught to fight against injustice. instead they believe that it is part of their lot in life to suffer through it. this differs strikingly from the Sikh belief that it is righteous and even necessary to raise the sword against adharma.

Archived_Member1 · #38 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kds1980

One thing i don't understand about jews is why are they hated so muslims,hardcore christians and even white racists.

muslims have issues with them on israel and may be the past conflict.but why do white racists hate them is beyond my understanding.on sites like stormfront i was quite surprised to read that they too blame every thing on jews.

i have never in my life met a muslim who disliked "Jews". according to Islam, jews are "people of the book" and therefor acceptable as marriage partners, business partners, friends, etc.

HOWEVER... most muslims i've interacted with hate "zionists", people who believe that Jews have a birthright to the land where the state of Israel now stands. this is quite obviously because the "zionists" moved in, kicked out the palestinians, have done some land grabs from syria, etc, and basically treat the palestinian like criminals for the crime of living in Israel.

before Israeli statehood, Muslims, Jews, and Christians all lived peacefully together as neighbors. kind of like pre-partition Punjab. funny how stealing someone's land will bring out the worst in him!

dalsingh · #39 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelly_kaur

i have never in my life met a muslim who disliked "Jews". according to Islam, jews are "people of the book" and therefor acceptable as marriage partners, business partners, friends, etc.

HOWEVER... most muslims i've interacted with hate "zionists", people who believe that Jews have a birthright to the land where the state of Israel now stands. this is quite obviously because the "zionists" moved in, kicked out the palestinians, have done some land grabs from syria, etc, and basically treat the palestinian like criminals for the crime of living in Israel.

before Israeli statehood, Muslims, Jews, and Christians all lived peacefully together as neighbors. kind of like pre-partition Punjab. funny how stealing someone's land will bring out the worst in him!

That is a complex but important issue. Some Panjabi Sikhs have a strong yearning for their old kingdom. Many feel that "Muslims" stole the land from them at partition. But you are right to highlight that a time did exist when everybody seemed to get on - circa Maharajah Ranjit Singh's time till partition. I don't know what happened to Panjabi mentalities during British rule to make people turn against each other so viciously.

dalsingh · #40 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelly_kaur

Jews lack a martial philosophy in their religion... in jewish history and myth, God has always taken care of their enemies for them while they fled. they have not been taught to fight against injustice. instead they believe that it is part of their lot in life to suffer through it. this differs strikingly from the Sikh belief that it is righteous and even necessary to raise the sword against adharma.

They seemed to have learnt their lessons in this respect! Advanced weapons etc.

Plus I'm not too sure about that. I just find it difficult to believe that they could last this long without some martial activity. They have fought in the recent past (i.e. establishing Israel). This also begs the controversial and knotty question of a homeland for people. Surely there must have been Jewish armies in the past (forgive the complete ignorance!)

They seem to be doing very well economically in England at least.

clarkejoey · #41 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 20:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

I just find it difficult to believe that they could last this long without some martial activity. They have fought in the recent past (i.e. establishing Israel). This also begs the controversial and knotty question of a homeland for people. Surely there must have been Jewish armies in the past

Sure there have been Jewish soldiers, armies, etc... i think kelly_kaur was saying that the religion has no martial philosohpy, which is true. They are famous for dying at worship; Greek armies in the 300's-200's BCE found that they could beat the Maccabaean's (the Jewish priest/king family of the day) armies if they attacked on the Sabbath, when no Jewish soldier could pick up a sword! (The Maccabaeans wised up)

Since the European Holocaust, a lot of israeli Jews have taken up an almost Sikh-like militarism, but it is completely secular, except insofar as Jewish faith and Jewish Independence overlap.

Would we like to discuss HOW and WHY they won/stole/inherited their homeland?

dalsingh · #42 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 21:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkejoey

Since the European Holocaust, a lot of israeli Jews have taken up an almost Sikh-like militarism, but it is completely secular, except insofar as Jewish faith and Jewish Independence overlap.

Would we like to discuss HOW and WHY they won/stole/inherited their homeland?

Fire away. The floor is yours.

clarkejoey · #43 (**permalink**) 26-Oct-2007, 22:16 PM

We-ell... on the one hand is the support of the USA and it's large block of Jewish voters, and on the other is the dilatoriness (is that a word?) of the Palestinian Arabs of the 1940's, who seem to have expected the zionists to simply evaporate.

Zionists gave religious/cultural/political reasons for the reconquest:

religious - the "Promised Land" of Jewish and Christian scripture;
cultural - there were millions of unrepresented Jewish folk in the area;
political - if they had a homeland, no Holocaust would happen again.

Sikhs should consider that last one.

There was plenty that was admirable and romantic about a couple thousand half-trained young soldiers beating up a huge army, but Israel has - in my opinion - gone a little bit nazi in their treatment of palestinians.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/judaism/17453-jews-sikhs-how-similar-can-we.html

I am quite certain that if the nation looking for a home had been considered non-white, they would have been pushed into the sea and there would be no Israel today; i remain astonished that after the Sikhs' relatively polite request for autonomy in the Punjab got not the slightest encouragement from "Developed Countries", allowing Mrs Gandhi to do and say whatever she wanted, and that they continue to ignore the search for justice.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17453

Or... maybe Sikhs have not pushed it sufficiently? I can't say. Anyone else?

Archived_Member1 · #44 (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2007, 00:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

They seem to be doing very well economically in England at least.

i think the economic issue is entirely seperate. Jews are stereotyped as being good at buisness or good with money, but there's some logical reasoning behind that. whether through choice, necessity, or "ghettoization", Jews have historically "stuck together" business wise. for example, only patronizing other Jewish shops and businesses. this helps to build a strong economic community. it's ironic that Euopeans have been forcing Jews to live in poor areas and basically treatign them as second class (ghettoization) for hundreds of years, but that very treatment is part of how they grew to be so strong economically. also historically many trades were jewish dominated because they were crafts which were passed down from father to son... trades which generated a lot of money like goldsmithing, jewlery making, watch making, etc. i think India also has communities who are famed for their "money sense" and if you look at their history they have also been involved in such trades.

the history of the Jewish people is not only a history of religion, but of an entire cultural and ethnic identity which was shaped by the people who have tried to destoy it.

also, the majority of Jewish people are NOT religious, they're Jewish by identity, by culture, but they don't follow the traditions or even hold the same beliefs anymore. this is something we as Sikhs should watch and learn from for i can see it happening to us if we're not careful.

Astroboy · #45 (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2007, 00:22 AM

Jews are the most economically successful group in American society, or, as Mr. Murray dubs them, "the overclass." Jewish family income is 72 percent more than the national average and even when minority groups are removed from the analysis, Jewish income is 34 percent more than that of Gentile white ethnic groups. (The author notes that Jewish families earn 50 percent more than "God-fearing, hard-working Irish-Americans.") Although Jews make up only three percent of the population, they account for approximately a fifth of the very rich, i.e. millionaires and above.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17453
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17453

(Full article: Why are Jews so rich? - satiric book review Washington Monthly - Find Articles)