Japji Sahib - "Suniai" is "Listening" - but much more than that

NamHariKaur · #1 (**permalink**) 26-Jul-2005, 19:27 PM

The first word of most of the lines of the 8th through the 11th Paurees of JapJi is "SUNIAI" - which is translated as "listening" in some places.

From the rest of the content of those same lines, it is clear that suniai is far more than an English speaking person would call "listening" - or even "good listening."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/5256-japji-sahib-suniai-listening-but-much.html

In my Nitnem book, published in Amritsar India 24th Edition 2004, suniai is translated as "hearing the name of God."

In The Aquarian Times Magazine MSS Guruka Singh Khalsa writes:

"Suni-ai- Listening. Listening is a state of being. It is a state in which we are fully awake and tuned into the myriad of sensory input so that we spontaneously act in harmony with the very flow of life in each moment."

That is a beautiful exposition of the sort of listening that might lead to what is described in JapJi. Perhaps nothing more needs to be said about it. But I am curious, does this exposition emerge from the meaning of suniai to a native Punjabi speaker or would a scholar of the language of the Guru's times give that description of the word sunia?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256

It is amazing to me that one word could exist that has such a deeply profound meaning. It is often said that Guru Nanak made every effort to write in language which the common people could understand. Does this suggest that people of India in the times of Guru Nanak commonly "listened" with all their being in the way described above by Guruka Singh?

I would love to hear what a native Punjabi speaking person or one who has studied the older version of the language as used in the time of Guru Nanak might be able to tell me about all this.

Thanks!
Nam Hari Kaur, Eugene Oregon

Arvind · #2 (**permalink**) 26-Jul-2005, 22:24 PM

Additional frequently occuring words, but perhaps not correctly translated:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256

Naam, Amrit, Kirpan, Purakh...

truthseeker · #3 (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2005, 08:35 AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

I am currently reading this book that was written by Sant Naranjan Singh Ji. And in his book he says that the explanation of Suniai is beyond words to descibe. He then later in this book tries to defineSuniai as "listening with a one pointed mind" meaning.. listening to the Words of the Guru with out any other other thoughts flowing through your mind.

It is almost like a state of mind i guess... or at least that is what i understood from it. If we can control our mind... then we can finally understand the Paurres of Suniai in Jap Ji Sahib
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256
Correct me if im wrong.
Bhull Cuk Maaf
Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!!

CaramelChocolate · #4 (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2005, 17:00 PM

Yeah I do have issues with some translations, someone sent me English mool mantar kirtan and it went like this:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256

We are one with God
this is out true identity
doer of everything
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256
beyond fear
beyond revenge
beyond death
image of the infinite
unborn
full of life
the goodest gives
meditate
primal truth
true for all time
true at this instant
o nanak
forever true

While it is very beautiful there is no mention of the naam, the first two lines are way off! Why do they translate so wrongly? Even as a non-sikh with knowledge I can tell that naam means name, why are they saying 'this is our true identity'??

Lee · #5 (**permalink**) 27-Jul-2005, 18:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramelChocolate

While it is very beautiful there is no mention of the naam, the first two lines are way off! Why do they translate so wrongly? Even as a non-sikh with knowledge I can tell that naam means name, why are they saying 'this is our true identity'??

Hello Cyber Sangat,

Hey CC,

I know what you mean, but I don't think there is any malicious intent in this translation. Do you not think that if God is 1, then we are also God?

Just a quick question but how would you translate 'Ikonkar sat naam'

Myself I have always thought: '1 God, whose name is true/truth'

Yet what does this mean? That there is only one God, yeah I can go with that, is Gods actual name True/truth though? Perhaps not, but if there is only one God, and God is also 1, then does this not mean that God is the whole, that the truth is that all is God, and God is all.

This is the idea I go with, so if that is the case then God is surley our true identity for God is all, and all is God, including us.

This makes the point of religion, not to find God or reach God, but to realise that we are already a part of God.

So although perhaps not a direct translation, the idea is still sound and true.

Cheers,

lee.

CaramelChocolate · #6 (**permalink**) 28-Jul-2005, 03:03 AM

Sat sri akaal Lee I agree with you I do not think there is a malicious intent, but they have to be careful as they maybe changing Gurubani without knowing it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256
Yes, I am not saying that their interpretation of japji sahib is wrong but I am saying it is not accurate as per Gurubani in my opinion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256
I do prefer literal interpretation for example:
Ik ongkaar sat naam - 'One God true name' rather than "there is one universal God whose name is true".
Or jaap sahib where the translations say "salutations to the formless" etc etc... why not just say 'salutations formless'? It seems to me that this would me much more accurate.
This is why it takes MUCH longer to read paath in English...

truthseeker · #7 (**permalink**) 28-Jul-2005, 03:16 AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

U have to remember that when translating from Panjabi to english.... the sentence may not make sense without adding those extra words. Such as ur example "salutations to the formless" this means that we show respect to the formless God... but if we were to just say " salutations formless" one could misinterpret what that means... to me personally if i were to just read that.. i would think it meant something totally different than what we are actually trying to convey. Like i said b4.. when translating from one language to another... u may need to add those extra words in soo that u can convey the correct message. As for accuracy, yes those extra words do not HAVE to be there.. but then again u have to remember that everyone is at a different level...and maybe they dont even kno what "NAAM' is and need as much help as possible when reading gurbani.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256

The only thing that does bother me is that.. there are soo many different translations for the same thing. They should have one English translating of all of Gurbani... soo that one does not get confused as to which translation is the most correct of accurate.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5256

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

CaramelChocolate · #8 (**permalink**) 28-Jul-2005, 04:44 AM

TruthSeeker I see your point but even in Punjabi you could say there is a problem of misinterpretation as that is literally what is being said.. why make allowances for English translation? Sure there can be articles written on the meaning but for paath format they should be kept in the translation form not interpretation form otherwise they will take double the time to perform and also it is up to the individual to find the meaning not look at what others think this may mean... Which leads me onto another question, are there any websites online with this type of translation?

NamHariKaur · #9 (**permalink**) 28-Jul-2005, 11:06 AM

Sat Nam Ji;

I wish I knew the source of the copy of JapJi that I have. It is a pamphlet given out at our Gurdwara but has no credits given. I like it for the very reason you mention. It has a word for word translation. It also has a sentence-like version with the "extra" words below that. It might take me some weeks to find out where this version came from. I too would like to see jaap sahib and even the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with word-for-word translations included.
I have not seen anything online with word-for-word translations. Nothing at Sikhnet that I have seen is done that way.

Nam Hari Kaur, Eugene, Oregon

Quote:

TruthSeeker I see your point but even in Punjabi you could say there is a problem of misinterpretation as that is literally what is being said.. why make allowances for English translation? Sure there can be articles written on the meaning but for paath format they should be kept in the translation form not interpretation form otherwise they will take double the time to perform and also it is up to the individual to find the meaning not look at what others think this may mean... Which leads me onto another question, are there any websites online with this type of translation?