Japji Sahib - Pauri 7

Dear Members,

In this post, I share with you all my understanding of the 7th Pauri of Japji Sahib.



In this Pauri Guru Sahib is making a clear distinction between ‘Status’ and ‘Stature’.



‘Status’ is what the individual gets because of her/his position in the society. ‘Status’ is always conferred from out side by some one else to the individual. The ‘Status’ of the individual remains as long as the individual holds that position. All the respect and the frills attached with that position one enjoys till the position remains with the individual; once the individual is remove from that position all the trapping disappear. Once that is gone the individual gets what she/he deserves.



‘Stature’ is intrinsic to the individual. It results from the values and beliefs the individual holds which give the individual a live based on virtues and principles. Guru Sahib tells us that ‘Karta Purakh’ bestows the virtues on all who deserve.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/449-japji-sahib-pauri-7-a.html



This is what Guru Sahib is telling us in this Pauri.



jy jug cwry Awrjw hor dsUxI hoie ] jay jug chaaray aarjaa hor dasoonee ho-ay.



Even if one lives for a very long duration.



nvw KMfw ivic jwxIAY nwil clY sBu koie ] navaa khanda vich jaanee-ai naal chalai sabh ko-ay.



Even if one is known to the others all over the universe.



cMgw nwau rKwie kY jsu kIriq jig lyie ] changa naa-o rakhaa-ay kai jas keerat jag lay-ay.



Even with a good title/name getting respect from all in the world.



jy iqsu ndir n AwveI q vwq n puCY ky ] jay tis nadar na aavee ta vaat na puchhai kay.



If ‘Karta Purakh’ has not notice the individual then no one will care for her/him.



kItw AMdir kItu kir dosI dosu Dry ] keetaa andar keet kar dosee dos Dharay.



The individual will be treated as lowest of the insets and the most blemished among the sinners.



nwnk inrguix guxu kry guxvMiqAw guxu dy ] (2-15, jpu, mÚ 1)
naanak nirgun gun karay gunvanti-aa gun day.



‘Karta Purakh’ bestows virtues in those who are virtue less and make virtuous still better.



qyhw koie n suJeI ij iqsu guxu koie kry ]7] tayhaa ko-ay na sujh-ee je tis gun ko-ay karay. ||7||



No one can think of any one who can bestow virtues on ‘Karta Purakh’. In other words Guru Sahib is telling us that ‘Karta Purakh’ is the ultimate.



Guru sahib in this Pauri has not stated what the individual should be so that she/ he is noticed by ‘Karta Purakh’ and what makes the individual eligible for the grace of ‘Karta Purakh’. We may have to learn more to get some clue about it.



With Love and Respect for all


Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

Amarpal.

 
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I happened to compare the two understandings of the 7th pauri - first by Amarpal ji, and other by Master Teja Singh (posted on this site by Neutral Singh at http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikhph...hread.php?t=13)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449
and this comparison led to a few conflicting understandings too. However, your explanation sounds more appropriate.

Amarpal ji, your way of explanation is the simplest, to the point and without any heavy words. And that s good for learners like us.
In appreciation to the good work by you,
with Best Regards.

Dear Member (ThinkingOne)

After you have mentioned the link, Ii read it. Four Jug are concepts in Hindu mythology. Guru Sahib had no alternative but to start imparting learning from where the frame of minds of his audience was. The dominant culture has given them this frame of mind. For this reason Guru Sahib has used the terms which were prevelant in public perception in his time. Use of these concepts by Guru Sahib is not the endorsement of the concept proper, it was a required for effective communication; and there it ends.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

Toady we know no one can live for four Yugas. Nature has not designed the body to live for that long duration - practice of Yoga or not.

Every day since birth, on the average the individual looses 5000 neurons in the brain, dead neurons donot get replaced, one has to live with this deficit. In early age, the impact of this loss is not evident but when the man crosses 50 years of life he himself starts finding difficulties with his memory etc and after 60 years it becomes so evident that even others can make out. For women this happens at much later age; because their brain is structured in a different way and the link that connects the two halfs of the brain is much thicker when compared to that of men.

You know that brain controls the body, when it itself starts degeneration after 50 - 60 years or so, how can body survive for four Yugas; it is only a mythological concept. If one reads Bhagavatam (it is not Gita) in the initial part it says that some mythological kings ruled the earth for few thousand cores of years but in the latter part says that human life is around 100 years.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

With love and Respect for all.

Amarpal

Thanks for the explanation Amarpal ji.

Could you please provide some pointer towards the Bhagavatam, you mentioned. Any online resource for the same?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

Regards.

Dear Member (ThinkingOne),

I do not know where 'Bhagavatamt' is available on Internet.

Bhagavatam, is the last book compiled by Ved Vyas on the suggestion of Narad to serve all those who were not eligible to read or hear Vedas.

It deals with all the Hindu mythology from the beginning and explains the cosmic history. It advocates Bhakti Marg to realise the 'Ultimate'. Here again I want to say that all the Mythological figures are conceptual designed to convey some truth of life; this purpose they serve very well in Hindu Mythology.

In ancient times people were contributing to learning without trying to get glorified or put thier name on it. As I understand, Ved Vyas is a title and not the name of the individual; no individual can live long enough to cover the period from Mahabharta to the time when Bhagavatam was written.Ved Vyas is a title, this one can make out from the word itself. Ved refers to the books of spiritual knowledge of the Aryans and Vyas means diameter. Taken together it means an individual whose area of knowledge i.e. diameter of the circle of knowldge is so wide that it encompase all the knowledge of Vedas. Such knowledgeable individuals alone could and so allowed to edit or compile the scripture. It is for this reason that you find that Aryan/Hinhu scripture complied over a very large span of time is attributed to 'Ved Vyas'. It can be so only if it was a title and different individuals have served the cause during different periods of time.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

With Love and Respect for all

Amarpal

Thanks Amarpal ji for the insight into 'Bhagavatam' and 'Ved Vyas'.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

Off-topic: I had read a book which explained the Gods such as Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva to name a few, and co-related those to atomic structure. Author also told that old age scriptures used to be cryptic, so that evil genius should not be creating havoc, and thus the knowledge was limited to a few learned ones only. I dont recall the author, but if anyone knows what I am talking about, please post the book details here.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

Ending with this, I look forward to further pauris

Best Regards.

Dear ThinkingOne,

I have no information on the book you want to know about.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449

With Love and Respect for all.

Amarpal

Thanks for the reply Amarpal ji.

Looking forward to further pauris.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=449
With Best Regards.