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Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27-Jul-2004, 10:19 AM
Amarpal's Avatar Amarpal Amarpal is offline
 
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Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

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Dear Members,



In this posting, I share with you all, my understanding of 4th Pauri of Japji Sahib.



As was the case with 3rd Pauri, Guru Sahib continues to dwell on the immenseness of ‘Sat Kartar’. Guru Sahib compares ‘The Absolute’ who is unlimited with we humans who have all the limitations, to convey the difference. Guru Sahib uses examples that are in the common knowledge of we humans to illustrate what he wants to convey to us.



In the end of the Pauri, Guru Sahib makes a very significant statement that what we get in this life is the result of our Karmas. This teaching when understood along with the learning of the previous Pauris tells us a lot. In the previous Pauri, Guru Sahib had said: all that we get is as a result of ‘Hukam’ of ‘Karta Purakh’, here Guru Sahib says that it is because of Karma. It means that our Karmas and the ‘Hukam’ of ‘The Absolute’ are in the chain which impacts on us to give or deny or modify something in our lives. We also know that Karam is from our end; Hukam is from the end of ‘The Absolute’. We all know that ‘Hukam’ is not random and it is individual specific. ‘The Absolute’ who is Just must be having some basis for designing his ‘Hukam’ (please excuse me for using technical language). Here Guru Sahib has provided the link; the Karmas of the individual are the input for the cosmic process that design individual specific ‘Hukam’ the impact of which is felt by the concerned individual.



For me it is a great discovery in spiritual domain. I thank Guru Sahib for giving us Siri Guru Granth Sahib.



With this said I come to details of the Pauri.



swcw swihbu swcu nwie BwiKAw Bwau Apwru ] saachaa saahib saach naa-ay bhaakhi-aa bhaa-o apaar.



Guru Sahib says that ‘The Absolute’ is true, and that is its name and has unlimited positive feeling.



AwKih mMgih dyih dyih dwiq kry dwqwru ] aakhahi mangahi dayhi dayhi daat karay daataar.

Guru Sahib tells us ‘The Sat’ is unlimited. What ever we ask ‘Sat’ is able to give with love. This is to drill into our mind the immenseness of ‘Karta Purakh’.

Pyir ik AgY rKIAY ijqu idsY drbwru ] fayr ke agai rakhee-ai jit disai darbaar.

Guru Sahib once again goes on to illustrate the insignificant position of we human with respect to ‘The Absolute’. Guru Sahib says: what can we keep in front so that we can enter its world. Again, here Guru sahib has use the practice of taking presents to significant individual when some one wanted to see him/her; this is done to be effective in communicating what he wanted to convey.



muhO ik bolxu bolIAY ijqu suix Dry ipAwru ] muhou ke bolan bolee-ai jit sun Dharay pi-aar.



In this sentence also Guru Sahib uses the method we human use to interface with the other individuals. Guru Sahib ponders on the words one can utter, which can evoke his love. All this Guru Sahib is telling us to make us realise that we are limited.



AMimRq vylw scu nwau vifAweI vIcwru ] amrit vaylaa sach naa-o vadi-aa-ee veechaar.



Having raised so many questions Guru Sahib now enters in answering mode. Guru Sahib tells us that during ‘Amrit Vayla’ the individual should think about the greatness of ‘The Absolute’.



Here I want to add what I infer from the term ‘Amrit Vayla’. To me ‘Amrit Vayla’ is not what my elders had been telling me. They tell me it is a time before dawn, some say 5 am, some 4 am and even some suggest 3 am; the older my elder is to whom I ask more the ‘Amrit Vayla’ moves towards midnight. If one asks them why it is so, they have no basis. Today in this knowledge age one must have a basis for every thing.



As I ponder over this issue, I get a feeling that this meaning (as told to me by my elders) probably has come from the practices of the religions to which my ancestors belonged before the arrival of Siri Guru Nanak Dev Jee. In that religion many of the practices where designed to make life difficult in order to curb senses.



If ‘The Absolute’ wanted we human to remain awake during night – during the so-called ‘Amrit Vayla’ - it was within his power to make us nocturnal being; ‘Karta Purakh’ has not done that. In addition Guru Sahib has asked us to be spiritual within the life of a house holder, he has not asked away to run away from normal life, which includes sleeping during night, then why will the ‘Amrit Vayla’ be some where at the middle of the night. Further more why ‘The Absolute’ will make some Vayla poison and some Vayla Amrit?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/361-japji-sahib-pauri-4-guru-granth.html



This leads me to the conclusion that the limitation that makes the Vayla poison or Amrit must be coming form we human. This shift in paradigm gives me a more rational answer.

Amrit Vayla is the time span when my mind is pure; that is the right time for ‘Simran’, no matter what time of the day or night it is. I conclude that there is no fixed time for it.



For any individual, when she/he gets up from sleep, there is a small time span before the mind starts dwelling on worldly affair. During this time span the mind of the individual is pure, that is why it is Amrit (Amrit was available always in small quantities only). One can train oneself to think of ‘Karta Purakh’ during this time. Probably by training one can create this state of mind any time one wants and for relatively longer duration. This is what ‘Amrit Vayla’ means for me.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361



Now I come back to next sentence of this Pauri.



krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ] karmee aavai kaprhaa nadree mokh du-aar.



This a very significant sentence. Guru Sahib is saying that this form (human body), which we have got, is the result of our Karmas. Earlier Guru Sahib has told us that it is the ‘Hukam’ that impacts on our lives. It means that our Karmas and the ‘Hukam’ of ‘The Absolute’ are both contribute to what impacts on us to give or deny or modify something in our lives. We also know that Karam is from our end; Hukam is from the end of ‘The Absolute’. We all know that ‘Hukam’ is not random and it is individual specific. ‘The Absolute’, who is ‘Just’, must be having some basis for designing his ‘Hukam’ (please excuse me for using technical language). Here Guru Sahib has provided the link; the Karmas of the individual are the input for the cosmic process that design individual specific ‘Hukam’ the impact of which is felt by the concerned individual. This understanding gives me the answers to the question that remained unanswered till this time. Now I move to the next sentence.



nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]4] naanak ayvai jaanee-ai sabh aapay sachiaar. ||4||



In this sentence there is another revelation.



Guru Sahib is telling us that ‘Karta Purakh’ is fully self sufficient; he does not need any thing from us. I hold the view that ‘Karta Purakh’ being Nirakaar has no needs or desires. He is not seeking us; we are seeking him. Guru Sahib tells us to keep this in mind.



This is my understanding of this Pauri.



With Love and Respect for all.



Amarpal



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 14:38 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

@Amarpal- There are many things that i'd like to discuss so lets start. I'll start from the beginning.
ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਇ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰੁll
Guru Nanak sahib brought Teeji pauri to a hault saying "
ਨਾਨਕ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਵੇਪਰਵਾਹੁ". He continues to praise the almighty in Fourth Pauri. Now what i can understand from the fourth Pauri is this-
As u said that Guru Nanak saheb says that "The Absolute’ is true, and that is its name and has unlimited positive feeling". i agree till the part that its name is also true but i dont agree with the part where u wrote "and has unlimited positive feeling".
"
ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰ"
ਭਾਖਿਆ means "ਭਾਸ਼ਾ" or "ਬੋਲਣਾ, ਉਚਾਰਨਾ", ਭਾਉ means "ਪਿਆਰ"
now it can mean two things
1. That the true lord, means "
ਪਰਮੇਸ਼ਰ ਨੇ "ਸੱਚਾ ਨਾਮ ਬੜੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਲ ਉਚਾਰਿਆ"
now which true name or naam is guru sahib talking about???
ਆਸਾ ਦੀ ਵਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਫਰਮਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ
""ਆਪੀਨੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉll ਦੁਯੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਾਜੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ" so eh oh naam hai jo shrishti di rachna to pehlan he os maalik ne bnaya ya rachya. one more point i want to bring forward i.e ਨਾਮੁ , ਸ਼ਬਦ , ਹੁਕਮ ਅਤੇ ਬਾਣੀ ਓਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਲੈ ਵਰਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨll The following quotes are from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ (ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ, .,ਪੰ .੭੨੫
ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਾ ਸੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ((ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ, ਪੰ ੨੨੯ )
ਸਭੋ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਸਮਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ((ਨਾਮਦੇਵ, .ਗ੍, ਪੰ ੧੩੫੧)
ਏਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਏਕੋ ਪ੍ਭੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭ ਏਕਸ ਤੇ ਉਤਪਤੀ ਚਲੈ ((ਗੁਰੂ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ, .ਗ੍, ਪੰ ੧੩੩੪)
ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ((ਗੁਰੂ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ, .ਗ੍, ਪੰ ੫੧੫ )

so "
ਨਾਮੁ , ਸ਼ਬਦ , ਹੁਕਮ ਅਤੇ ਬਾਣੀ" oh sachi taakat hai jo es duniya nu te sanu chlaa rahi hai. Ki ohnu akhran de vich bann ke rakh sakde han??? ki eh naam asin uchar sakde han??
the answer is no. Then where is the answer??? The answer is on page 1083 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਸਗਲ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਤਿਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਮਨ ਵਾਜੰਗਾll
ਕਿਰਤਮ ਨਾਂ ਕਥੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾll ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰਬਲਾll
ethe saaf saaf guru sahebaan ne farmaya hai k jo naam teri jihba laindi hai oh kirtam naam hai yani k created by man. So what i can think is that jis naam naal os parmatma ne shrishti di rachna kiti hai oh likhan padhan bolan vich nahi aa sakda.


2. the 2nd thing which it can mean is that parmatma nu pyaar di bhasha he bolda hai te pyaar di bhasha he samjhda hai.

Now as it is getting lengthier i'll move further....agee chouthi pauri vich guru saheban farmounde ne-

ਆਖਹਿ ਮੰਗਹਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਦਾਤਾਰੁll
I'll quote Amarpal "Guru Sahib tells us ‘The Sat’ is unlimited. What ever we ask ‘Sat’ is able to give with love. This is to drill into our mind the immenseness of ‘Karta Purakh’"



I some what agree with your view here. But there is need to go in more depth.
Guru sahib says that we keep asking for many things from the almighty and he fulfills them. But did we come for asking things from god which will land us no where. The ques is what did we come for ??? Why have we got the human body??? The simple answer to this is so that we can become one with the almighty. But what is our condition??? In raag Dhanasri Guru Arjun dev ji says
ਦਾਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਵਿਸਰਿਆ ਦਾਤਾਰਾ ll”
We keep asking materialistic things from the god and that’s what keeps us in the cycle of death and birth. Guru Arjun Dev ji says
ਵਿਣੁ ਤੁਧੁ ਹੋਰੁ ਜਿ ਮੰਗਣਾ ਸਿਰਿ ਦੁਖਾ ਕੈ ਦੁਖll ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੀਆ ਉਤਰੈ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਭੁਖll”
ਨਾਮੁcomes here again. So this is the naam which created everything . Now other ques that should come to your mind is that where is this naam??? I leave that upto you to find from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read the gurbani to find from where will u get the true naam.
LETS MOVE FURTHER!!
ਫੇਰਿ ਕਿ ਆਗੈ ਰਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਦਰਬਾਰੁll
Guru Nanak sahib question us “That what should we give to him , what should we keep in front of him so that we can enter his palace??”
Now this is a common practice that whenever we go to a gurudwara or any other religious place we offer materialistic things like money or whatever. But this is not what he wants from us. Everything is given by God and we think that by giving his thing to him we’ll become one with him??

ਮੁਹੌ ਕਿ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁਣ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰll
Now Guru Ji asks “What should we speak in order to get his happiness, his love?? Is it that we need to speak any sort of special shabad or special prayers to get his happiness???”

ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ll
Now Guru Nanak Sahib replies to the questions that he put forward . The only thing that we can offer to The Almighty is what we have our own ant the thing that is our own is ego “ਹਉਮੈ rest everything is given to us by God. We have Developed “ego” over time and that’s wat we should offer to him. But the ques is how??
The answer is clear “ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁll” amrit vele uth ke os naam di kamaai karke, surt nu shabd naal jod ke. We already discussed that “naam, shabad, hukam, baani”are used in same context in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by guru sahebaan. But as we already discussed which naam ??? The naam that created the universe. From where will we get it??? Find the answer to that in Sri guru granth sahib.
Surt Shabd naal kis tarike naal judegi??? The ques remains so find it in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, do some research.

And yes Amarpal you are absolutely right. That time is good when we think or remember the almighty. But I’ll discuss it somewhat. Guru nanak says on pg 1330 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
ਨਾਉ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਦੁਨਿ ਪਰੀਤਾll ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸਾ ਜਗਿ ਹਾਰਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਜੀਤਾll
Amrit vela is around 2 a.m when mind is fresh and body is fresh and there is no disturbance i.e no one comes and knocks at your door. At this time you can concentrate the most.
ਕਰਮੀ ਆਵੈ ਕਪੜਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ll
There could be three meanings to this but the best according to my knowledge should be that Guru sahib want to tell us that “The human body , we get as a result of our karmas but the oneness with almighty will come as his NADAR or DAYA or MEHAR”. What guru sahib want say is I guess that “We cannot obtain salvation by our efforts”. Oh ta os Guru di mehar naal milu jis ne sanu NAAM di data bakhsi hai.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361
BAANI vich aunda hai
ਨਾਮੇ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਕਿਛ ਹੁਆ ਬਿਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਮ ਨਾ ਜਾਪੈ ll
Sache guru ton bina naam di bhagti nahi ho sakdi.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵੈ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ll
I quote AMARPAL “Guru Sahib is telling us that ‘Karta Purakh’ is fully self sufficient; he does not need any thing from us. I hold the view that ‘Karta Purakh’ being Nirakaar has no needs or desires. He is not seeking us; we are seeking him. Guru Sahib tells us to keep this in mind.”
MY understanding is quite different “Guru sahib says that when the soul becomes one with the naam or shabad , then there is no one else, where ever I go , I look I see only the shabad only the guru , the true guru(ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ)”
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Old 29-Jan-2011, 19:35 PM
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

Nirmaljot,

A lot of your meaning is lost because you have written so much of your explanation in Punjabi. Please if you will go back and add more English to your comments. It could be an English sentence following your Punjabi sentence. Otherwise the contrasts and the "multiple meanings' and your conclusion are completely lost of most of our audience. The vast majority of our readers will be disappointed and some even annoyed as they do not read Punjabi even in roman font. The official language of the forum is English. Thank you.
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Old 29-Jan-2011, 21:12 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

This thread is from 2004...when SPN was just an infant...now 7 years later..Nirmaljot ji brings it back to life...YES..IF the explanations were BILINGUAL...it would be immensely more interesting read Jios....Lets help everyone UNDERSTAND and benefit from our knowledge/experiences with Gurbani...the more ENGLISH..the better jios..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361
japposatnamwaheguru: japposatnamwaheguru: japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru: japposatnamwaheguru:
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Old 29-Jan-2011, 23:35 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

@ admin @gyani ji
surely mates i m new here so sort of mixed the both. But i think knowing punjabi would help a lot on this forum. I wonder how poor are those who dont know punjabi as they cant cherish the treasure given to us by ten gurus and many bhagats. But what do u guys think about my post??? Its intriguing , i hope my understanding & research is good enough regarding 4th pauri. But v must keep polishing ourselves not only in just discussing the gurbani but also in following it.

I personally would advise who so ever reads it, that dont just read gurbani, discuss it go deep into it and then follow it because its a treasure and only through this treasure we are going to get to that gem called naam. which naam??? The one that i have discussed above.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361

May god help you alll on the path of enlightenment.
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Old 29-Jan-2011, 23:47 PM
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan View Post
@ admin @gyani ji
surely mates i m new here so sort of mixed the both. But i think knowing punjabi would help a lot on this forum. I wonder how poor are those who dont know punjabi as they cant cherish the treasure given to us by ten gurus and many bhagats. But what do u guys think about my post??? Its intriguing , i hope my understanding & research is good enough regarding 4th pauri. But v must keep polishing ourselves not only in just discussing the gurbani but also in following it.

I personally would advise who so ever reads it, that dont just read gurbani, discuss it go deep into it and then follow it because its a treasure and only through this treasure we are going to get to that gem called naam. which naam??? The one that i have discussed above.

May god help you alll on the path of enlightenment.

nirmaljot ji

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Old 30-Jan-2011, 00:30 AM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

Nirmaljot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Interesting interpretation. I was wondering if you have done the same for the Mool Manter and the 3 pauris! If you have, please let me know because I enjoy your thought process.

You write:

Quote:
Amrit vela is around 2 a.m when mind is fresh and body is fresh and there is no disturbance i.e no one comes and knocks at your door. At this time you can concentrate the most.
I have a couple of questions for you so I can understand better what you are talking about.

1. Which Vela is NOT Amrit Vela?

2. Where did you get 2AM as Amrit Vela from?

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Tejwant Singh
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Old 31-Jan-2011, 00:09 AM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

@tejwant singh

i was reading a post and i saw a thread about 4th pauri which had no replies so thought of replying to it. But i'll surely share the first three pauris as well with you.

Now talking abt your ques i just get one impression sir, i.e u did not read the post with full concentration. replyin to ur questions

1. i quote "And yes Amarpal you are absolutely right. That time is good when we think or remember the almighty. But I’ll discuss it somewhat. Guru nanak says on pg 1330 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
ਨਾਉ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਦੁਨਿ ਪਰੀਤਾll ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸਾ ਜਗਿ ਹਾਰਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਜੀਤਾll
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=361
"
The time when ever we remember the almighty is good or " amrit wela". Now the time which is not amrit wela??? It is the time when we are not thinking of him and we are thinking of worldly matters, when we think bad for someone. Some times what happens is we are in gurudwara and we are still thinking about our business or family. Now that time is not amrit wela even though we are in the gurudwara.

2. Why 2 a.m ???
I said AROUND 2 a.m because it is the time when body is fresh , that is the time when we dont think about worldly matters, that is the time when there is an air of spirituality, that is the time when no one will knock at your door and trouble you about your business, that is the time when the drop is ready to merge with the ocean.

U can refer to baani of bhai gurdass regarding amrit vela.
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Old 31-Jan-2011, 09:09 AM
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Re: Japji Sahib - Pauri 4 - Guru Granth Sahib

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Nirmaljot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your response and I am eagerly waiting for your thoughts on the Mool Mantar and the first 3 pauris and eventually the whole Jap.

You write:

Quote:
Now talking abt your ques i just get one impression sir, i.e u did not read the post with full concentration. replyin to ur questions

1. i quote "And yes Amarpal you are absolutely right. That time is good when we think or remember the almighty. But I’ll discuss it somewhat. Guru nanak says on pg 1330 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
ਨਾਉ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਦੁਨਿ ਪਰੀਤਾll ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸਾ ਜਗਿ ਹਾਰਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਜੀਤਾll
First of all, according to Gurmat values we give benefit of the doubt to people rather than presuming things. It is always wise to ask questions. I did read the whole post.
Having said that, would you be kind enough to express in your own words what the above verse means?

Quote:
The time when ever we remember the almighty is good or " amrit wela". Now the time which is not amrit wela??? It is the time when we are not thinking of him and we are thinking of worldly matters, when we think bad for someone. Some times what happens is we are in gurudwara and we are still thinking about our business or family. Now that time is not amrit wela even though we are in the gurudwara.
What do you mean by what is in bold above? Doesn't "remembering the almighty" lie in actions or does it lie in just parroting Gurbani?

Aren't thinking of the family and business even in the Gurdwara which may help us give new ideas to make our family and business better parts of Miri-Piri concept of Sikhi way of life?

Quote:
2. Why 2 a.m ???
I said AROUND 2 a.m because it is the time when body is fresh , that is the time when we dont think about worldly matters, that is the time when there is an air of spirituality, that is the time when no one will knock at your door and trouble you about your business, that is the time when the drop is ready to merge with the ocean.
Do you mean our Gurus, starting with Guru Nanak worked against the nature and did not care about our body clock with whose help our bodies work?

Do you think they would advice us to discard nature in this manner?

What would be the reason behind it if your contention is correct? Can you please shed some light on it.

Quote:
U can refer to baani of bhai gurdass regarding amrit vela.
I beg to differ with you about your above claim. First of all Baani is what is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru. Bhai Gurdas ji's vaarans did not pass the benchmark that our Gurus had set up. Hence, they are not found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

My request to you is to only quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

Hope to learn from you.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh
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