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Japji Translation Questions

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jap ji, jap ji sahib, jap sahib, jap sahib ji, japji, japji sahib, japu ji, japuji, japuji sahib, questions, translation
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 01-Nov-2010, 15:15 PM
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

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SS AKAL JI.

I think when any Shabad or Shabds are spoken by our tongue wrong or right is the results of our struggle inside our mind which each of us justify by core thoughts residing in our sub-conscious by negative or positive perceptions our daily life style living according to Sikhism preachings.

It is clearly understood that one should practice what is being preached.

When, we all watch practices of our life styles according to Sikhism in our family and places of worships are not in coordination with Guru's ji preachings , a negative perceptions is born by growing generations.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/32802-japji-translation-questions.html

Guru Ji taught us to be practical in our life style not by BLIND FAITH . First develop understanding about WAHEGURU BY UNDERSTANDING GURBANI WHICH FURTHER LEADS US TO ULTIMATE TRUTH.

Gurbani is WONDROUS path to realize the TRUTH as per perching of our Gurus by understanding the SHABADs blessed us by our gurus.

Boles (words) spoken in sweeten tone can make a huge differences in interacting with each other which leads us to better understandings.Translations by many learned scholars are in place after so much time spent for their research to understand the SHABAD in Gurbani to introduce their thoughts without any criticism to the previous translations done.

Mutual respect by respecting each others ideas without getting offended hasa made this forum a wonderful stage to exchange our views by avoiding all kinds of egoism.

One's negative thinking could be good for him and others good thinking can be negative for others.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802

That is the way our world exist to exchange our views but TRUTH will never change.

Patience to hear opponents views with positive understanding are often leads to ultimate TRUTH.

Jaspi.



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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 01-Nov-2010, 15:32 PM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

Quote:
A true quality of a SANT/BRAHMGYANI is never harsh word..never a single grunt/furrow on forehead..red eye..anger..not the slightest hint of annoyance...always sweet humble..lower than the lowest...it sure takes a lot of patience sehaj and practise..thats why the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is 1429 pages long and not shorter...
Well The other side of story That it is also an art used by very clever persons.They show their one face to society ,but there other personality is quite different
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 01-Nov-2010, 17:59 PM
jaspi's Avatar jaspi jaspi is offline
 
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

SS AKAL JI.

Positive perceptions bring wondrous results than negative perceptions.Each person when they expressed their feelings it is wrong or right are the real perceptions they carry.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802

But TRUTH remains intact.

Jaspi
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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2013, 18:31 PM
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

Hey, i'm just starting to read Jap Ji Sahib and i'm using the website SriGranth.org which i'm sure you are no doubt familiar with, I am not relying on the textual translations given beneath each line, instead i'm trying to make a list of individual words on the website which have been translated, (you can do this by hovering the words over the gurmukhi text), i then write that words and the translation in order to create my own personal vocabulary list, however recently i have become slightly worried that this effort is in vein, as i am starting to get the feeling that perhaps SriGranth.org's translation of individual words is perhaps not so reliable. I was wondering if anyone would vouch for the relibility of this method that I am using and could perhaps propose a different method for getting a good understanding of the Gurmukhi words in the JapJi Sahib.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802

Thanks
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 17-Sep-2013, 02:55 AM
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

Anon ji,
I use the word approach in Shabad of the week in order to encourage more participation. However, this approach will only ever take you so far. Gurbani is poetry, so the meaning is much more than the sum of the words. You need to bear this in mind. Also if you get stuck, referring to another shabad/passage can help you understand better. It is good to look at the words and grammar, but also don't forget context or the bigger picture, especially when understanding metaphors. Feel free to share your learning to we can all learn together
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 17-Sep-2013, 03:06 AM
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

Gurfateh ji

Yes, www.srigranth.org is a great site for learning about Gurbani! Good choice to start there.

I commend your determination for the project. I'm not sure how much you know about the Gurmukhi (script Gurbani is written in). The language in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (classical Punjabi with a mix of many other languages) is highly inflected and has many different cases for words.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802

For example in English it gets about as complicated as:
Swim
Swims
Swimming
Swam
Ishna
Ishna's
boy
boy's
boys'

I'd speculate that in English our most highly inflected words are verbs, and in the above list there are 4 examples, unless I've missed any.

If you had no knowledge of English, and Japji were composed in English, and you were hovering your mouse over swim, swims, swimming, swam they'd either come up with nothing, or point you to 'swim', which might not make much sense if you don't understand what the different words mean (to swim.. he swam.. they swam... I am swimming... etc). I believe this accounts for why a lot of the time the srigranth dictionary comes up with nada-nothing-zilch-zero on hover sometimes.

In Gurbani inflection and case are even more complicated than English. Nouns change form depending if they are 'male' or 'female' sounding-words. Adjectives change form depending on the gender and number of the word they are describing. There are so many verb endings according to the tense and if it's singular, plural, a vowel-ending verb or a consonant-enging verb. Example:

The word 'kar' (do) in Gurmukhi has these present tense forms:

1st person singular
kara (I do)
karee (I do)
karo (I do)

2nd person singular
Karh(i) (you do)

3rd person singular
karai (he does)
kare (he does)

1st person plural
karh (we do)

2nd person plural
karh(u) (you do)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802

3rd person plural
karnhee (they do)
karh(i) (they do)

And unlike adjectives, in this tense there is no distinction of gender!

I wanted to try a similar approach as you in the beginning before I realised there is presently no shortcut to learning Japji in the native language, you really need to spend some time learning the actual lanaguage.

The good news!

For all it's perceived complexities, the rules for the language of Gurbani are actually really quite logical and relatively easy to pick up (for a language!). The script is an absolutely work of art which makes identifying the different words quick and easy.

If you'd like to take the project to the next level (come on you know you want to!) then I recommend downloading a copy of An Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs are having a read - it teaches you the script and the language (it's where I got the above example from). Download free here (you just have to register first): http://www.academicroom.com/book/int...language-sikhs [cudos to spnadmin for finding this for us!]

I've been working my way through the book (hit a wall recently and stopped but I intend to come back to it soon) and putting my answers in the forum here for other members to mark so if you want to compare your answers please do: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/learn-...ing-tests.html

Also look around the forum for other posts about the language and grammar. And ask questions.

My dream is to learn enough of Gurmukhi and the language to be able to create a 'learn nitnem in it's own language' sort of resource which will explain the language just in the context of Japji first and then hopefully other banis. I want to get it to a stage where someone can pick up the resourse and it will explain word-for-word the language so people can read the Gurmukhi and understand it, even if it's only in Japji and not the rest of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Because learning a whole language is quite a task and is time-consuming, when most newcomers want to get straight into the Sikh lifestyle and want to do nitnem (which let's face it is stunningly beautiful in the original) but feel a barrier due to the language.

I may never get there and it might not even be a feasable project but hey, I can aim for it anyway.

Good luck and happy reading!
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 17-Sep-2013, 03:47 AM
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Re: Japji Translation Questions

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kds1980 View Post
Well The other side of story That it is also an art used by very clever persons.They show their one face to society ,but there other personality is quite different

That is why Guru Ji tells us...AAKLEEAN sahib seveyeah...USE THE BRAINS He gifted us to search for the TRUTH..the REAL FACE...hiding behind the Mask of Divinity...but sadly many just take the mask for reality..too bad..they get cheated.
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