Japji Translation Questions

findingmyway · #**100** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga

NAAM Ji,
DIVINE GREETINGS,
Here I would differ with your meaning of the word.First of all the correct word is NIRVAIRu which is SINGULAR by grammer .Therefore this word can not be a reference for five things as mentioned.
If we look at the whole words of the first line out of nine words the first seven words are SINULAR and eighth word GUR is PLURAL and the last word PRASAADi is VERB{PLURAL}.Therefore the meanings of the words should conform to the reference of Grammer of the words to get the correct meaning of various words.
With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga

the translation is enmity or ignorance. these words are without plural or singular so can apply to any number of enemies or any number of aspects of lack of knowledge. if i am mistaken in my translation, please correct me

findingmyway · #**101** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yayati

"Let me here emphasis that I have achieved anything I have achieved is not by soche i.e. by thinking again and again over the knotty points of the Japu-it is only by living Japu more intensely i.e. ......by listening to its recitation by myself attentively and constantly praying for the flow of Hazre-karam or Nazar and Karam into me. Incidentally there is no such verb in Panjabi as socẖ, to be clean, to be pure. Panjabi has only two words of Sanskrit origin and which are used with the auxiliary verbs or the Panjabi never uses the word. It will make no sense to maintain that Guru Nanak began his flight of the unknown by declaring , you cannot clean your body by cleansing it with water a hundred thousand times.

Dear yayati ji,
Thank you for sharing your very thoughtful essay. On www.searchgurbani.com the meaning of soch in the line under question is also thinking. However, 30 other quotes are given with teh same word and the translation is given as clean/cleanliness for many as thinking doesnt fit in so the verb soch for clean does exist. I have given the page numbers of a selection of these quotes with the translation from that website (I don't always agree with the English translation) so if anyone wants to look and comment further, I would love to hear your thoughts. This is a fantastic learning exercise. Is it possible that soch means both things so both concepts are tackled by Guru Ji in one go? :happykaur:

Ang 59 Line 4 Sri Raag: Guru Nanak Dev
ਕਾਇਆ ਸੋਚ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਿਆਰ ॥
kaaeiaa soch n paaeeai bin har bhagath piaar ||
The body does not obtain purity without loving devotion to the Lord.

Ang 265 Line 17 Raag Gauri Sukhmanee: Guru Arjan Dev
ਸੋਚ ਕਰੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
soch karai dhinas ar raath ||
You may practice cleansing day and night,

Ang 495 Line 12 Raag Goojree: Guru Arjan Dev
ਅਨਿਕ ਸੋਚ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੀ ॥੩॥
anik soch karehi dhin raathee bin sathigur andhhiaaree ||3||
and performs all the rituals of purification day and night, still, without the True Guru, there is only darkness. ||3||

Ang 903 Line 3 Raag Raamkali: Guru Nanak Dev
ਨਾਵਹੁ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਚੜਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਚ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੋਚ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥
naavahu dhhovahu thilak charraavahu such vin soch n hoee ||6||
You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. ||6||

Ang 905 Line 10 Raag Raamkali: Guru Nanak Dev
ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਚਾ ਕਿਆ ਸੋਚ ਕਰੀਜੈ ॥
man nehee soochaa kiaa soch kareejai ||
His mind is not pure, so what is the use of performing ritual cleansings?

Ang 1229 Line 15 Raag Sarang: Guru Arjan Dev
ਮਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਸੋਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਤ ॥
man anik soch pavithr karath ||
and purify your mind in various ways,

Ang 1266 Line 7 Raag Malar: Guru Arjan Dev
ਕਰੀ ਪਾਕਸਾਲ ਸੋਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰਾ ਹੁਣਿ ਲਾਵਹੁ ਭੋਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਏ ॥੨॥
karee paakasaal soch pavithraa hun laavahu bhog har raaeae ||2||
I have made my kitchen pure and sacred. Now, O my Sovereign Lord King, please sample my food. ||2||

prakash.s.bagga · #**102** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 02:36 AM

FINDINGMYWAYS
DIVINE GREETINGS,
If we are convinced that there is no grammer of Gurbaani language then any interpretation is fully justified.But if we feel that there is definite pattern of Grammer in the Gurbaani language then the situation is different.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/32802-japji-translation-questions.html
Any how I am not aware if there can be any language without grammer particular reference of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.I find that even QuRAN language has definite pattern of Grammer .You may find a special time in Q TV programme exclusive devoted to the Grammer of QURAN language.I find people in Q TV programme taking positive view of such programme.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
This is just for your information only
with best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga

prakash.s.bagga · #**103** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 02:46 AM

NAAM Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
Divine Greetings,
I would request to mention the reference Page No of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji about your quote unabling me to go thru this,
With thanks
Prakash.S.Bagga

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #**104** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 05:57 AM

We have to look at the word and how its spellt.......is it SOCH..or SO(i)CH or SOCH(u)....then we will see the difference. Gurbani uses such Gramattical MARKERS for clarity...and we have to use them for the purpose they are there...

prakash.s.bagga · #**105** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 15:56 PM

GIANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji
WAHi GUROO Ji Ka Khalsa
WAHi GUROO Ji Ki Fateh
I fully appreciate your views when making meanings of Gurbaani words. A proper knowledge of Gurbaani words can only be the guidance for knowing the correct meaning of Gurbaani.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
With regards
Prakash.s.Bagga

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #**106** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 16:36 PM

Parkash Singh bagga Ji, Gurfateh.

Yes Ji..Gurbani is..agaadh bodh...as deep as the ocean...its written in a script..it has words humans use..its message is Divine.. its on paper ( other mediums now)..the langauge vocabulary semantics etc part cna be studied..the divine part can only be experienced...just as the depths of the oceans can be accessed as deep as one can go..surface anyone can delve in (BUT knowledge of SWIMMING is a MUST..so is KNOWLEDGE of GURMUKHI/PUNJABI a MUST !!..and just as one can "swim" with aids...one can also learn from TRANSLATIONS !!...) then an experienced swimmer can go deeper..at certian depths one needs breathing aids..yet deeper submarines..etc etc..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
GURBANI is also something like that...and it feels GOOD..real GOOD...and its said...a MUTE cannot say out loud how good the sweetmeats he just ate...we all are MUTES wheere Gurbani experiences are involved...each has his own stage of MUTENESS !!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
Thank you for a meaningful discussion...sincerely Jarnail

Naam · #**107** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 17:23 PM

Very nice gyani ji we all cam learn /read / sing the gurbani BUT there are only a few that have the divine expreance which ONLY comes through NAAM abass which is what we all need to do the most

Naam · #**108** (**permalink**) 27-Oct-2010, 17:50 PM

Parkash ji I am only a humble servant of the lord and hope one day the lord will except me as a servant and that he keeps me as a servant
The quote is from Asa di var " Nirv BHO NARUNK KAR SAC NAAM JA KA SGAL JAHAN"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32802
NIRBO.....BO NA NAHI MAYA VICH
If you look at the other pori in the asa di var it gives example of how Maya captures us
Kolo Charka chaki chak thal varola latoo mathania ............
All the things spin round and round but this is how MAYA is
God does NOT Spin in this MAYA