the japji sahib by yogi press, sat nam media

svea00 · #1 (**permalink**) 01-Mar-2008, 22:41 PM

Sat sri akaal!

I´m new to sikhism and currently reading mostly different translations on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I found some translations of the japji sahib in Swedish and German that differ a lot from the English ones I´ve previously read and leaving me confused. They´re mostly from 3ho, kunalini yoga lessons and books.
I would like to offer you the beginn of Japji Sahib (I hope you don´t mind that I retranslated it into English, I did my best) to start a discussion about this, in my opinion, more westernized translation:

Japji sahib,
god, we are one.
Our inner truth is creating the world
with love and courage.
Free from body, free from time
your mind is teaching us perfection.
Meditate!
On the truth of heaven, the truth of the world.
The truth now, so speaks Nanak, the truth always been.

Thinking, thinking, so much thinking doesn´t make us understand.
Silence, silence, remaining in silence for so long doesn´t calm the mind.
Our longing is not to be pleased by the riches of this world.
Of our great ideas there is none that keeps/holds us.
How can we live in truth, destroy the net of illusion.
Nanak says, let us listen to god´s will on the way. 1.

His will formed our bodies, His will is not to be described, His will gave us live,
His will let us grow, His will makes us small or big, His will gives us happiness and pain,
His will is blessing on earth and lets us be reborn.
All beings live after your will, no one lives on his own (will).
Nakak says, if we could understand god´s will we wouldn´t be so selfcentered. 2.

Some that know your power, sing of your power.
Some that you presented with wealth, sing of your strenght.
Some sing of your miracles, see, "you are so beautiful".
Some sing of your wisdom, so deep not to understand.
Some sing " you make your bodies and reduce them again to dust".
Some sing " you´re taking our souls and sending them out again".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/20248-japji-sahib-yogi-press-sat-nam.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248
Some sing "you are the next and most distant one". Some sing "you are alway with us".
You are the one we´re meditating on in so many forms, contemplating and discussing.
You are the one giving and keeping us life/alive.
We take and take, you are giving. On your will the world goes round.
Nanak says, " be happy, grow and be carefree and glad". 3.

My true Master, my true self. We are calling your neverending love.
We beg, "please, give us, give!" and you give and give.
What can we offer you to find your kingdom? Which words can we speak to fell your love?
In the ambrosial hours of the morning. Search your true existence! Struggle in deep meditation to experience your union with god!
All our karma will vanish. We can find the door to freedom.
Nanak says, a person filled with truth, contains the whole universe. 4.

Uncreated, unrestrained, are we pure in our Self, all alone.
Nanak says, sing of this precious gift. Who is conceiving him will be successfull.
To sing fo him, to hear of him takes all pain away.
It fills the mind with love and gives us happiness in the heart.
The guru opens the stream of sound in us. The guru opens the knowledge in us.
The guru shows us, we are one. The guru shows us god in a form, that´s not beyond our mind. The guru shows us god as maya, the mother, the great creator.
Would I know what to say, what use would have speaking?
One thing the guru showed me: there is only one being, that lives in us all as soul, I shall never forget it! 5.

To remember my Self shall be my ritual.
Without everything is unreal. In what ever forms we might find it.
It is our effort and our doing, that defines our life.
To listen just once to the guru, could lead us to the pearls of our mind.
One thing the guru showed me: there is only one being, that lives in us all as soul. I shall never forget it! 6.

If someone had lived for a 1000 years, would be known everywhere, popular as a superstar, his name named with awe.
couldn´t he see in the non-visual, it would be no longer of interest.
Wouldn´t he be more than a worm among worms, people would despise him.
God, you are illuminating the ones in darkness and you are illuminating the ones in light.
Nanak says, the ones illuminating you, they are not existing. 7.

I will stop here. If you want some more, ask for it.

svea00 · #2 (**permalink**) 01-Mar-2008, 23:07 PM

To complete the history how I came to this...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248
I ´m interessed in yoga and trying different forms of it. I´m at the time attending kundalini yoga classes. We are meditating everytime, singing mantars... to a sikh we´re doing naam simran, singing "waheguru, waheguru, waheguru, wahe ji-o"; "sat nam" or "waheguru, waheguru, guru ramdas ji" for 20 min.
The teacher is providing us with translations that made me wonder why and how this could happen as I have been reading gurbani for a while. (ex. Sat nam = the truth in my identity)

I´m utterly interested what you think of this.

carolineislands · #3 (**permalink**) 01-Mar-2008, 23:55 PM

I have DVD of Kundalini Yoga taught by a 3HO Sikh and I noticed that the translation of certain words and mantras don't mesh too well with what I find in more traditional Sikh circles and I wonder if they are translating them in a more politically correct way since it is for yoga class. I also watched the DVD of Snatum Kaur's Peace Tour and it doesn't seem like she does this as much, but some.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248

I may be way off the mark here -- I am new. But it seems like the translations put self in place of God and avoid using the word God altogether.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248

Like I said, I could be way wrong on this because I'm new and my experience is very limited. This is just my perception from what information I have so far.

carolineislands · #4 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2008, 00:10 AM

I'm looking up translations for the word, "Sat nam" and am finding the following:

Wiki == "God is Truth" and this: In Sanskrit there are two words which have this root: Sat which means beingness, existence and Satya which means truth, validity. There is a great difference between the two. Satya is the quest of the philosopher who seeks truth. What is this truth? It lies in the rules whereby two plus two always equals four, and never five or three. So Satya is a mathematical formula, a man-made calculation, but it is not Sat. It is logical truth but not existential reality. Sat is that which just is, always was, eternal.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248

Encyclopaedia == The Sikh name for God.

Another definition by a Singh from India is, "The original name of God-in-action."

This is a far cry from the definition, "The Truth in MY Identity." To me, believing that the light of God is in all of us is a lot different than believing that I AM God. There is only ONE God, and it ain't me.

I do have his light shining in my heart, but I am not God.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248

Perhaps this is a fundamental difference between traditional Sikhi and 3HO? I don't know so I'll wait for the more informed of the group to comment further.

Narayanjot Kaur · #5 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2008, 00:30 AM

ਟਟਾ ਬਿਕਟ ਘਾਟ ਘਟ ਮਾਹੀ ॥
ttattaa bikatt ghaatt ghatt maahee ||
TATTA: It is such a difficult path, to find Him within your own heart.

ਖੋਲਿ ਕਪਾਟ ਮਹਲਿ ਕਿ ਨ ਜਾਹੀ ॥
khol kapaatt mehal k n jaahee ||
Open the doors within, and enter the Mansion of His Presence.

ਦੇਖਿ ਅਟਲ ਟਲਿ ਕਤਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ॥
dhaekh attal ttal kathehi n jaavaa ||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248
Beholding the Immovable Lord, you shall not slip and go anywhere else.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248

ਰਹੈ ਲਪਟਿ ਘਟ ਪਰਚਉ ਪਾਵਾ ॥੧੭॥
rehai lapatt ghatt paracho paavaa ||17||
You shall remain firmly attached to the Lord, and your heart will be happy. ||17||
Sant Kabeer

Archived_Member1 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2008, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolineislands

I have DVD of Kundalini Yoga taught by a 3HO Sikh and I noticed that the translation of certain words and mantras don't mesh too well with what I find in more traditional Sikh circles and I wonder if they are translating them in a more politically correct way since it is for yoga class. I also watched the DVD of Snatum Kaur's Peace Tour and it doesn't seem like she does this as much, but some.

I may be way off the mark here -- I am new. But it seems like the translations put self in place of God and avoid using the word God altogether.

Like I said, I could be way wrong on this because I'm new and my experience is very limited. This is just my perception from what information I have so far.

it's possible that they're trying to express the all-encompassing nature of God in a way that distinguishes it from the judeo/christian "separation from God". to Sikhs, God is in everyone. to christians, God is a distant entity.

since the vast majority of 3HO come from a judeo/christian background, i'm guessing there are a lot of translations that are meant to emphasize the "oneness" of sikhi, to differentiate it from the christian tradition.

just my theory of course, i don't have any really evidence for it.

Archived_Member1 · #7 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2008, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Japji sahib,
god, we are one.
Our inner truth is creating the world
with love and courage.
Free from body, free from time
your mind is teaching us perfection.
Meditate!
On the truth of heaven, the truth of the world.
The truth now, so speaks Nanak, the truth always been.

how did ੴ become "God, we are one"? i don't get this at all...

ੴ should express the oneness of God. i've never heard of it used to express unity of humanity...

any thoughts?

svea00 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2008, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasleen_kaur

how did ੴ become "God, we are one"? i don't get this at all...

ੴ should express the oneness of God. i've never heard of it used to express unity of humanity...

any thoughts?

Actually I don´t know.
But I think as well that the whole meaning with this translation is to express the oneness in sikhi and is simply a pretty bad translation.

I read on another homepage that kartaa purakh was even described as creating energy.
Maybe, coming from a christian/judeo background it is hard to understand that god isn´t separated from his/her creation and yet not to describe. Energy is something we at least have a glimpse of what it is.
It is kind of hard if you´ve grown up with a picture of god sitting above in heaven and watching and notating everything you do.

Anyway, I have to admit that I like the traditional sikhi translation better. It is closer to what I believe in or the way I understand sikhi.

carolineislands · #9 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2008, 08:09 AM

Jasleen, I too wondered about the use of certain descriptions to differentiate from the Judeo/Christian idea of God. I think (personally) that some people who leave Christianity have been hurt or really turned off by it and don't like to even use the word "God." Sometimes I think people avoid the use of the word God for those reasons.

I'm glad I don't have that particular problem, even though I think the Judeo/Christian perception of God is awfully limited. That's another thing I love about Sikhi -- there are no limits on God...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=20248

Okay, going to watch some turban tying videos.