Understanding Japji Sahib Pauri 1 to 7

vinod · #19 (**permalink**) 07-May-2007, 00:04 AM

The post just above yours has been edited by Surinder kaur Cheema @10.07 PM withou any communication? Why?It has been done after communication that nothing will be done.If it be so, my contribution by way of original writing would be restricted.What is multiple post ,i do not know.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/15128-understanding-japji-sahib-pauri-1-7-a.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15128

You should have told me . I even do not know as to what has been removed/deleted/changed.it is not a professional aproach.kindly intimate the reason.
vinod
*

simpy · #20 (**permalink**) 07-May-2007, 00:10 AM

Respected Vinod Ji,

before you edited it now-

it was stating right underneath in the post box-

Edited by- my name and REASON- Multiple posts

nothing is deleted or added , that message at the bottom- signifies the report
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15128

forgive me please

roopk · #21 (**permalink**) 01-Jun-2007, 22:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema

Pauri 7

jy jug cwry Awrjw hor dsUxI hoie ]
Even if you could live throughout the four ages, or even ten times more,

nvw KMfw ivic jwxIAY nwil clY sBu koie ]
and even if you were known throughout the nine continents and followed by all,

cMgw nwau rKwie kY jsu kIriq jig lyie ]
with a good name and reputation, with praise and fame throughout the world-

jy iqsu ndir n AwveI q vwq n puCY ky ]
still, if the Lord does not bless you with His Glance of Grace, then who cares? What is the use? As all this play of the name and fame is worldly.

kItw AMdir kItu kir dosI dosu Dry ]
Among worms, you would be considered a lowly worm, and even contemptible sinners would hold you in contempt.

nwnk inrguix guxu kry guxvMiqAw guxu dy ]
O Nanak, God blesses the unworthy with virtue, and bestows virtue on the virtuous. His store of virtue does not have any limits. auh Awp Apwr hY Aqy aus dI ikrpw BI Apwr hY[

qyhw koie n suJeI ij iqsu guxu koie kry ]7]
No one can even imagine anyone who can bestow virtue upon Him. As He is Self-Existent.
He is Self-Perpetuating, Self-Evolved

So all this name and fame is worldly thing, is of no value at all. Without His Grace all is useless

Madam ji,

What do you want to tell us by giving translations from one site. Please give as to what you make out of this Pauri like As Aman Pal ji is doing. You are simply wasting time and confusing others.

simpy · #22 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2007, 03:58 AM

endless thanks for your comments respected Roopk Ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15128

unfortunately me neech is not Aman Pal, btw WHO IS AMAN PAL?

forgive me please

Narayanjot Kaur · #23 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2007, 06:19 AM

Respected members of the forum posting on this thread

Some of us find great satisfaction and contentment in this thread. So often in comparing 2 or more translations of any set of verses from Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib we can see that in the interests of capturing the 'deeper" English meaning of the Guru the translators use creativity and imagination and render Englishes verses that miss the more precise meaning of the Guru in its original language. So here the seva of Surinder ji is to give us the closer translation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15128

I wish I could count the times I have fallen asleep reading one particular English translation of Japuji Sahib. It really doesn't work in English. Not joking. The original sounds better. The original says what it says. So many thanks to Surinder ji. She has set herself on a worthy mission.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15128

Of course this is just my opinion.

But something else. Sometimes threads don't call for controversy. This is one of them. When we all get up tomorrow morning and open our Nitnem and focus on the message of Naanak Sahib ji he will encourage us to wash away all dirt and corruption. As he does every day, he will encourage us to find peace within our minds and hearts and souls.

God is always cheerful.

roopk · #24 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2007, 08:52 AM

One may refer any translation. YOu may prefer the one that suits you. It is ok. But we are born sikhs and I am amritdhari Lady. This kind of translations are not much of use to us. You should learn Gurmukhi as well. I can point out some mistakes even in translation. Hence it is requested that anyone pasting the translation should see that it is done according to Bani and also should convey the closest possible meaning.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15128
Aa dji I had seen your post and I want to help you as well so that you become an Amritdhari as well.

roopk · #25 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema

] jpu ]
Recite/Chant (Meditate)

The heading of the following Bani.

The word Jap refers to Simran.

This is the title of the Bani(Japuji). This includes one shaloke in the beginning, one in the end and 38 Pauries.
The message of the “JapuJi Sahib” is abiding in nature and universal in application. It is a description of the nature of Universal Reality and prescribes the way to comprehend it. Here Guru Ji reaffirms the Supremacy of the Almighty over and over again.

Awid scu jugwid scu ]
He was True In The Primal Beginning. He was True Throughout The Ages. Such here refers to the Changeless/Immortal. False is Mortal, that deforms. God is the only Reality that does not change.

scu –siq, nwS rihq, sdw iek rs[

hY BI scu nwnk hosI BI scu ]1]

He is True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever He is True. So He is the only Truth. He is Changeless.

Pauri 1

socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]
By Cleansing our bodies, the mental filth cannot be cleaned, even by cleansing hundreds of thousands of times.

Outer Bathing cannot clean the inner koor.

cupY cup n hoveI jy lwie rhw ilv qwr ]
By remaining silent, inner silence is not obtained, even by remaining lovingly absorbed deep within.

Moan Vart(observing Silence) cannot reduce the inner koor as outer silence does not stop the inner Chatter(non stop chatter-box/mind).

BuiKAw BuK n auqrI jy bMnw purIAw Bwr ]

The hunger of the hungry is not appeased, even after piling up loads of worldly goods.

Vart cannot reduce the inner hunger for MAYA. If Surti stays in accumulating worldly wealth, keeping yourself hungry for days or weeks, does not help at all.

shs isAwxpw lK hoih q iek n clY nwil ]
Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end.

Worldly intellect and Ridhi/Sidhi do not help. As these can help one to acquire worldly comforts only. No Spiritual progress.

ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]

Now Guru Ji is asking if all these efforts(then known aspects of Bhagti) do not help in Spiritual Progress then what: So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?

hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]

Then Answering the above Question, Guru Ji says: O Nanak, it is written (that this is the truth) that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. (Living by considering- His Will as your will, not- your will as His Will).

Ø Outer purifications, silence observations, fasting, and mental tricks(sidhies) cannot achieve us any Spiritual Aspirations.
ØTo become truthful we need to be completely under His command. Surrender the I-ness. Accept whatever is –as it is(happily). So be CONTENT under ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. As He is the KARTAPURKH. Stop judging.

So the very first step Guru Ji is recommending for a seeker -ABIDE BY HIS HUKAM(order). It refers to SAT SANTOKH

The above should always begin with the Mool Mantra as it is the first respected Mantra in the Granth Sahib.You have avoided this. THis is as per gurmat. Even if you know that the mool mantra is separate even then Japji Sahib ji should begin with Manglacharan.

roopk · #26 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema

Pauri 6

qIriQ nwvw jy iqsu Bwvw ivxu Bwxy ik nwie krI ]

If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings? So the ablution is of no avail if He(God) is not pleased.
qIriQ nwvx jwau qIrQu nwmu hY ]
qIrQu sbd bIcwru AMqir igAwnu hY ]

jyqI isriT aupweI vyKw ivxu krmw ik imlY leI ]

I gaze upon all the created beings: without the karma of good actions, what are they given to receive? We do not obtain anything without good karma.

miq ivic rqn jvwhr mwixk jy iek gur kI isK suxI ]
Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies(pure knowledge and understanding), if we listen to the Guru's Teachings, even a single one. We need to act upon our Guru’s instructions, if we hearken to even a single teaching, we can obtain unlimited knowledge.

gurw iek dyih buJweI ]
Guru Sahib says-The Guru has given me this one understanding:

sBnw jIAw kw ieku dwqw so mY ivsir n jweI ]6]
there is only the One, the Giver of all souls, the bestower for all beings. May I never forget Him!

So this belief (out of ignorance) that outer bathing is a religious ritual and equating the physical neatness and cleanliness with mental Purity or Spiritual Life, is shear foolishness. You cannot find God by taking cold baths or taking bath on a specific hour or at a specific place. Guru Ji is rejecting all these superstitions. To become pure we need to immerse in the Inner Ambrosial Pool of the Divine Name (Amrit-Naam). We need to focus our consciousness on the Pure Self (Divine Essence, Shabad or Naam, Satguru, God, Unconditioned Consciousness) within.

Here you should explain in brief the concept of Name in terms of the three specific gurumantra. It is of little use if we keep on repeating the lines from translation. Please clarify separately shabad, Naam and introduce the concept of guru and tell that our present Guru ji is Granth Sahib. It is parrot like translation. There should be an approach that someone who is reading should get you that you want to convey.

roopk · #27 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema

Pauri 5

QwipAw n jwie kIqw n hoie ]

He cannot be established, He cannot be created by any one. He is not subject to cause/effect.

Awpy Awip inrMjnu soie ]

He Himself is Immaculate and Pure. He is all in all Himself.

ijin syivAw iqin pwieAw mwnu ]

Those who serve Him find the reality about Him (the proof of His existence), they are accepted gracefully at His Dargah and are liberated from the bondage.

nwnk gwvIAY guxI inDwnu ]

O Nanak, sing praises of the Lord, the Treasure of Excellences. Now Guru Ji is telling us how to serve Him.

gwvIAY suxIAY min rKIAY Bwau ]

Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love. Unselfish love with Him is the key.

duKu prhir suKu Gir lY jwie ]

By doing so our pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to our abode.

gurmuiK nwdM gurmuiK vydM gurmuiK rihAw smweI ]

When we serve Him what we find-The Guru's Word(God’s Word) is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas(religious books); the Guru's Word is all-pervading. Here He is pondering on this truth-
Awpy Awip inrMjnu soie ]
Gurmukh realizes the truth about Him, gurmukh listens to the Naad,and Knows that He is All.

guru eIsru guru gorKu brmw guru pwrbqI mweI ]

The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi/Sarasvati. These are all His sargun savroops, worshipped or meditated on by the believers.

jy hau jwxw AwKw nwhI khxw kQnu n jweI ]

Even after knowing about God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words. He is Limitless. There is always more to know about Him. so purKu inrMjnu hir purKu inrMjnu hir Agmw Agm Apwrw ]

gurw iek dyih buJweI ]

The Guru(Lord) has given me this one understanding:

sBnw jIAw kw ieku dwqw so mY ivsir n jweI ]5]

there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him.

In this Pauri Guru Ji is talking more about how to serve God. In the previous pauries He talked about

hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]
AMimRq vylw scu nwau vifAweI vIcwru ]

And now He stressed upon how to do it
gwvIAY suxIAY min rKIAY Bwau ]
and what we will get out of it.

So far it tells us-

He is One and He is All.
We must live under His Will.
We should sing and listen as well as contemplate on His Name with a heart full of love. Amrit Vela is the Best time.
Those who serve Him are able to know the truth about Him.

Kindly elaborate on the following points for our guidance .

1. What is the 'will' that you are referring to?
2. What is the 'truth' about HIM that will be known to those who serve HIM.
3.Should we meditate or 'Jap. which is the better of two, in regard to contemplation?