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Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 16-Jan-2007, 10:51 AM
sahilmakkar1983's Avatar sahilmakkar1983 sahilmakkar1983 is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

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WHAT IS TRUE NAME........do u know
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijla Singh View Post
Mr. “Navroop”

It is disappointing to see that you spent so much time in searching Gurbani to prove your point but never spent any time in understanding it correctly. Relying on English translation is a big mistake and I must say that the translation you have copied is very wrong. Let’s discuss the Shabad first with correct meanings and context.

badhafailee gaibaanaa khasam n jaanee ||
One who does misdeeds does not recognize the true Waheguru

so keheeai dhaevaanaa aap n pashhaanee ||
He is a fool for not recognizing the truth that he too is part of Waheguru. In other words, the fool does not understand the reality.

kalehi buree sa(n)saar vaadhae khapeeai ||
He wastes his time in vikaars, misdeeds and bad actions and wastes his life.

vin naavai vaekaar bharamae pacheeai ||
Without the true Name, his life is wasted.

The above lines mean that a person who is in maya is wasting his time and does not recognize the true Name, or the reality. The next lines say:

raah dhovai eik jaanai soee sijhasee ||

There are two ways – going after maya and going after Naam. One who recognizes and understands the real true path is the smart and successful in his life.

The next lines basically say that one who gives up five vices (false ego etc) is accepted in the house of God otherwise he is lost is lying, treachery etc. I don’t understand how the translator got the meanings “All spiritual paths” which is nowhere mentioned in the shabad. No other path or religion is mentioned in the Shabad. You must look at the context of the Shabad. The next lines of the Pauree start off with “Only He is alive (awakened) whose mind is absorbed in Naam”. Pauree before the Shabad you presented has the same context.

Don’t you think it is ironic that Gurbani rejects other religions and their holy books at one place and accept them at another? Do you really think Gurbani contradicts itself? I don’t think so. Gurbani (Word of God) never contradicts itself and rejects the notion that all paths are the same. In any case, here are two links for you to read on this topic because I don’t feel like writing the same thing over and over. Read posts by Singh132 carefully. If you have any new question then let me know but arguing for the sake of argument is not what I do. Have fun

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17403&hl

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17403&hl





 
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 16-Jan-2007, 21:26 PM
ajay_bullseye's Avatar ajay_bullseye ajay_bullseye is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Dear Sayed,
I dont kno where to start from or where to end....As it seems you have no knowledge at all bout sikhism...
But here Im about to tell you something different to do. I mean many of my brothers have given you a long lesson on sikhism and I am sure bout it that you are not goin to believe them at all. This is because some Muslims who have a wrong impression that, to believe in only their religion and the rest is just a piece of **** .
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/14692-islam-view-on-sikhism-please-help.html
But my friend I will suggest you something really nice and also what you will feel to do.
Instead of we telling you the fact about our religion you can find it out by yourself by asking your own people. I mean the Muslims.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14692
1 . Those Muslims who believe in the Gurus in Sikhism.
2 . Those Muslims who started fighting with hindus after Guru Nanak's demise saying that they wanted to bury his body as he was their Guru and not of hindus.
3 . Those Muslims who still visit Gurudwaras and sing our hyms. (They do Kirtan)
4 . Muslims of Pakistan who everyday visit Nankana Sahib(The birth place of Guru Nanak) and say that Guru Nanak was their Guru too.
Also the Nankana Sahib Gurudwara is taken care by the local Muslims!!!
5 . Ask the recent Maulana of your sacred place Mecca, about what had happened when Guru Nanak came there and why there is a Black coloured Cloth surronding your Mecca. What does it hide. This was not before...The cloth around the Mecca wasn't there first. It was done after some years when Guruji visited the place. Be bold ask your own persons. Instead of pointing flaws in some one's religion have full knowledge of that religion!!!


Try doing this. By this all your doubts will be cleared and also by your own community persons...
Regards,
Khalsa...
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 17-Jan-2007, 04:58 AM
navroopsingh's Avatar navroopsingh navroopsingh is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Ah whatever I already admitted defeat in my last post...you may not have noticed the little line inbetween the two shabads.I always seem to argue for the sake of argument...have to work on that!

Quote:
It seems that that would help my argument but i dont need to tell you that it took a long time of searching through sikhitothemax to find such one quote. The rest spoke of single paths and some were like the following.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 17-Jan-2007, 22:36 PM
tehel singh's Avatar tehel singh tehel singh is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA WAHE GURU JI FATHE
HARNAM 46, SEEN YOUR POSTING ABOUT A MUSLIM PERSON ATTACKING
SIKHISM AND PARTICULARLY THE GURUS.
First of all let me just say this (NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA ,TERE
PANNE SARBAT DA BAHLA)
Q 1: Mohammed , Jesus, Moses were prophets.
WAS MOHAMMED A PROPHET ?
A 1: I ASK THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIFE HISTORY OF THIS LAST PROPHET WHICH WAS PARTLY WRITTEN BY HIS WIFE AISHA. IN VOLUME 7, BOOK 62,NUMBER 64 SAHIH BUKHARI.
NARRATED AISHA: THAT PROPHET MARRIED HER WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD AND THAT HE CONSSUMATED HIS MARRIAGE WHEN SHE WAS NINE YEARS OLD.AND HE WAS AN OLD MAN OF 54 YEARS.
When she was 6 Mohammed asked, Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father for her hand. Abu Bakr thought this was improper,because,as he said "I am your brother"; Mohammed brushed aside Abu Bakr’s reservation
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14692
By saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha.
[Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI 17:18].
VERY CONVENIENT BEING A PROPHET.
TODAY IF THIS HAD HAPPENED THE LAST PROPHET WOULD HAVE BEEN BEHIND BARS.
MOHAMMED WAS HAVING SEX WITH A CHILD WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH HER FRIENDS NOT SHARING A BED A WITH A MAN OLD ENOUGH TO BE HER GRANDFATHER.
Narrated Jaber bin Abdhulla,
When I got married ALLAH’S APOSTEL said to me "What type of lady have you married?" I replied , "I have married a matron," HE SAID , WHY?
DON’T YOU HAVE A LIKING FOR YOUNG VIRGINS AND FONDLING THEM ?, Jabir also said: ALLAH ‘S APOSTLE SAID, ‘’ WHY DON’T YOU MARRY A YOUNG GIRL SO YOU MIGHT PLAY WITH HER AND SHE WITH YOU .
SILENT CHILDREN
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 67:
NARRETED ABU HURAIR
THE PROPHET SAID , A MATRON SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER CONSULTING HER; AND A VIRGIN SHOULD NOT GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER HER PERMISSION, THE PEOPLE ASKED, O ALLAH’S APOSTEL!
HOW CAN WE KNOW HER PERMISSION?,
HE SAID, HER SILENCE(INDICATES HER PERMISSION)
SO IS THAT HOW A PROPHET BEHAVES ,
AND COULD THAT PERSON SAY, WHAT RELIGION CONDONES THE DISTRUCTION OF A CHILDHOOD
PROPHET SAYS MARRY YOUNG VIRGINS-:
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 17
ON THE OTHER HAND GURU NANAK JI HAVE TOLD HIS SIKHS,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14692
TO RESPECT WOMEN BY COMPOSING A HYMM,
[SO KION MANDA AKHIA JO JAMEIN RAJAN] ( WHY USE DERAGOTORY REMARKS FOR THE ONE WHO GIVES BIRTH TO KINGS AND PROPHETS).
WHILE WE ARE AT IT WHY DID MOHHAMED NEEDED TO MARRY 9 WOMEN ? AND AS AISHA SAY’S MOHAMMED WAS ONLY VISTED BY ANGEL GABRIEL WHEN HE WAS WITH HER , WHY DIDN’T GABRIEL VISIT HIM WHEN HE WAS WITH OTHERS
IS IT BECAUSE SHE WAS A CHILD AND HE COULD PERSUADE HER THAT HE COULD SEE THE ANGEL, I SAID HE ONLY BECAUSE AISHA HAS SAID IN HER HADIT THAT SHE COULD NOT SEE ANY THING.
THANK AKALPURAKH THAT WE WERE BORN IN A SIKH FAMILY.
PROPHET MOHAMMED, MOSES AND JESUS WERN’T ODRNARY MEN.
SO WHAT IS IT THAT MOHAMMED IS SUPPPOSED TO HAVE DONE WHICH IS DIFFERENT, HE HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT HE COULD NOT PERFORM ANY MIRACLE

Well, when the people of Arabia were confronted by Mohammed and this new religion, Islam, they asked him to do a miracle, so they could believe in him. And in the Koran, again and again it says, "I cannot perform any miracle." So if anyone would say that Mohammed performed any miracle, this is against the Koran. It is very clear in the Koran, that Mohammed said again and again, "I am but a messenger of God. I do no miracle." That is one thing.And then again, of course, when you come to Moses, when he met the Lord, he said to Him, "I will go to the Jews, to the Israelis, and I will tell them that I met God. They say He didn't appear to you. What shall I say?" He said, "Well, I'll give you three miracles, that you may authenticate your prophethood with." But Mohammed had not one miracle to authenticate his prophethood.

Secular history records that in 610, by which time Mohammed had become the leader of his tribe, he was in a cave meditating and seeking to discover which of the jinni was indeed most powerful and worthy to become the tribal jinni of his family. Mohammed claimed that one of the jinni appeared to him and identified himself as the Angel Gabriel5 and appointed him as 'prophet.' Mohammed immediately began to promote himself as a prophet of god and aggressively began recruiting in and around Mecca while challenging the idol worship of pagan Arab's
Banu Qurayza
The Banu Qurayza had been reluctant in helping Mohammed against the Quraysh (Keep in mind that the Quraysh tribe were Mohammed's own people). Conveniently once again, Mohammed claimed that he had divine knowledge about a conspiracy by the Banu-Qurayza to kill him. This became his justification to starve the tribe into surrender by besieging their fortress for twenty-five days. He then sentenced every male member of the tribe to death, enslaved all the women and children, and plundered all of their property
I THINK THIS SHOULD BE HELPFUL IN ANSWERING THE PROPHET QUESTION.
Q HINDUS
A THE SIKH RELIGION IS A SEPARATE RELIGION FROM VEDIC FAITHS
THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER FAITHS
OF WHICH HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE.
IT IS SAID THAT MOHAMMED WHEN HE WAS IN MECCA WHEN THE PAGAN WORSHIP WAS RIFE, HE ACKNOWLEGED THE THREE PAGAN GODS TO SAVE HIS OWN SKIN BUT AS SOON AS HE GOT HIS MEN ARMED AND READY, HE CHANGED HIS TUNE.
MOST OF ALL TELL THIS PERSON TO STUDY ARABIC THROUGHLY AND THEN READ THE KORAN.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE MULLAS DON’T WANT TO TRANSLATE THE KORAN ?
IT’S BECAUSE THE KORAN IS FULL OF CONTRADITIONS.
WHILE THE GURU’S TEACHING ARE THERE FOR EVERYONE TO READ AND TO UNDERSTAND, IT CAN BE TRANSLATED IN ANY LANGUAGE THE MASSAGE IS THE SAME.
SO GURNAM 46 DO NOT BE INTIMEDATED BY THIS YOUNG MAN HAVE ATAL FAITH IN WAHEGURU AND LEAVE THESE PEOPLE TO THEIR OWN IDEAS
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA ,WAHE GURU JI KI FATHE.

Last edited by Aman Singh; 17-Jan-2007 at 23:20 PM. Reason: Avoid writing in capital letter and bold formatting... looks ugly. you can sound wiser simply putting your thoughts plainly.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 17-Jan-2007, 23:42 PM
Boota's Avatar Boota Boota is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Muslim 2 Sikh Converts | Muslim 2 Sikh :: Muslim Converts To Sikhism
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 18-Jan-2007, 00:45 AM
tehel singh's Avatar tehel singh tehel singh is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA WAHE GURU JI FATHE
HARNAM 46, SEEN YOUR POSTING ABOUT A MUSLIM PERSON ATTACKING
SIKHISM AND PARTICULARLY THE GURUS.
First of all let me just say this (NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA ,TERE
PANNE SARBAT DA BAHLA)
Q 1: Mohammed , Jesus, Moses were prophets.
WAS MOHAMMED A PROPHET ?
A 1: I ASK THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIFE HISTORY OF THIS LAST PROPHET WHICH WAS PARTLY WRITTEN BY HIS WIFE AISHA. IN VOLUME 7, BOOK 62,NUMBER 64 SAHIH BUKHARI.
NARRATED AISHA:
THAT PROPHET MARRIED HER WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD AND THAT HE CONSSUMATED HIS MARRIAGE WHEN SHE WAS NINE YEARS OLD.AND HE WAS AN OLD MAN OF 54 YEARS.
When she was 6 Mohammed asked, Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father for her hand. Abu Bakr thought this was improper,because,as he said "I am your brother"; Mohammed brushed aside Abu Bakr’s reservation
By saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha.
[Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI 17:18].
VERY CONVENIENT BEING A PROPHET.
TODAY IF THIS HAD HAPPENED THE LAST PROPHET WOULD HAVE BEEN BEHIND BARS.
MOHAMMED WAS HAVING SEX WITH A CHILD WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH HER FRIENDS NOT SHARING A BED A WITH A MAN OLD ENOUGH TO BE HER GRANDFATHER.
Narrated Jaber bin Abdhulla,
When I got married ALLAH’S APOSTEL said to me "What type of lady have you married?" I replied , "I have married a matron," HE SAID , WHY?
DON’T YOU HAVE A LIKING FOR YOUNG VIRGINS AND FONDLING THEM ?, Jabir also said: ALLAH ‘S APOSTLE SAID, ‘’ WHY DON’T YOU MARRY A YOUNG GIRL SO YOU MIGHT PLAY WITH HER AND SHE WITH YOU .
SILENT CHILDREN
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 67:
NARRETED ABU HURAIR
THE PROPHET SAID , A MATRON SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER CONSULTING HER; AND A VIRGIN SHOULD NOT GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER HER PERMISSION, THE PEOPLE ASKED, O ALLAH’S APOSTEL!
HOW CAN WE KNOW HER PERMISSION?,
HE SAID, HER SILENCE(INDICATES HER PERMISSION)
SO IS THAT HOW A PROPHET BEHAVES ,
AND COULD THAT PERSON SAY, WHAT RELIGION CONDONES THE DISTRUCTION OF A CHILDHOOD
PROPHET SAYS MARRY YOUNG VIRGINS-:
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 17
ON THE OTHER HAND GURU NANAK JI HAVE TOLD HIS SIKHS,
TO RESPECT WOMEN BY COMPOSING A HYMM,
[SO KION MANDA AKHIA JO JAMEIN RAJAN] ( WHY USE DERAGOTORY REMARKS FOR THE ONE WHO GIVES BIRTH TO KINGS AND PROPHETS).

WHILE WE ARE AT IT WHY DID MOHHAMED NEEDED TO MARRY 9 WOMEN ? AND AS AISHA SAY’S MOHAMMED WAS ONLY VISTED BY ANGEL GABRIEL WHEN HE WAS WITH HER , WHY DIDN’T GABRIEL VISIT HIM WHEN HE WAS WITH OTHERS
IS IT BECAUSE SHE WAS A CHILD AND HE COULD PERSUADE HER THAT HE COULD SEE THE ANGEL, I SAID HE ONLY BECAUSE AISHA HAS SAID IN HER HADIT THAT SHE COULD NOT SEE ANY THING.
THANK AKALPURAKH THAT WE WERE BORN IN A SIKH FAMILY.
PROPHET MOHAMMED, MOSES AND JESUS WERN’T ODRNARY MEN.
SO WHAT IS IT THAT MOHAMMED IS SUPPPOSED TO HAVE DONE WHICH IS DIFFERENT, HE HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT HE COULD NOT PERFORM ANY MIRACLE

Well, when the people of Arabia were confronted by Mohammed and this new religion, Islam, they asked him to do a miracle, so they could believe in him. And in the Koran, again and again it says, "I cannot perform any miracle." So if anyone would say that Mohammed performed any miracle, this is against the Koran. It is very clear in the Koran, that Mohammed said again and again, "I am but a messenger of God. I do no miracle." That is one thing.And then again, of course, when you come to Moses, when he met the Lord, he said to Him, "I will go to the Jews, to the Israelis, and I will tell them that I met God. They say He didn't appear to you. What shall I say?" He said, "Well, I'll give you three miracles, that you may authenticate your prophethood with." But Mohammed had not one miracle to authenticate his prophethood.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14692

Secular history records that in 610, by which time Mohammed had become the leader of his tribe, he was in a cave meditating and seeking to discover which of the jinni was indeed most powerful and worthy to become the tribal jinni of his family. Mohammed claimed that one of the jinni appeared to him and identified himself as the Angel Gabriel5 and appointed him as 'prophet.' Mohammed immediately began to promote himself as a prophet of god and aggressively began recruiting in and around Mecca while challenging the idol worship of pagan Arab's
Banu Qurayza
The Banu Qurayza had been reluctant in helping Mohammed against the Quraysh (Keep in mind that the Quraysh tribe were Mohammed's own people). Conveniently once again, Mohammed claimed that he had divine knowledge about a conspiracy by the Banu-Qurayza to kill him. This became his justification to starve the tribe into surrender by besieging their fortress for twenty-five days. He then sentenced every male member of the tribe to death, enslaved all the women and children, and plundered all of their property
I THINK THIS SHOULD BE HELPFUL IN ANSWERING THE PROPHET QUESTION.
Q HINDUS
A THE SIKH RELIGION IS A SEPARATE RELIGION FROM VEDIC FAITHS
THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER FAITHS
OF WHICH HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE.
IT IS SAID THAT MOHAMMED WHEN HE WAS IN MECCA WHEN THE PAGAN WORSHIP WAS RIFE, HE
ACKNOWLEGED THE THREE PAGAN GODS TO SAVE HIS OWN SKIN BUT AS SOON AS HE GOT HIS MEN ARMED AND READY, HE CHANGED HIS TUNE.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14692
MOST OF ALL TELL THIS PERSON TO STUDY ARABIC THROUGHLY AND THEN READ THE KORAN.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE MULLAS DON’T WANT TO TRANSLATE THE KORAN ?
IT’S BECAUSE THE KORAN IS FULL OF CONTRADITIONS.
WHILE THE GURU’S TEACHING ARE THERE FOR EVERYONE TO READ AND TO UNDERSTAND, IT CAN BE TRANSLATED IN ANY LANGUAGE THE MASSAGE IS THE SAME.
SO GURNAM 46 DO NOT BE INTIMEDATED BY THIS YOUNG MAN HAVE ATAL FAITH IN WAHEGURU AND LEAVE THESE PEOPLE TO THEIR OWN IDEAS
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA ,WAHE GURU JI KI FATHE.


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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 18-Jan-2007, 15:47 PM
freedom84's Avatar freedom84 freedom84 is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Brilliant post Tehel Singh
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 26-Jan-2007, 11:34 AM
badmash's Avatar badmash badmash is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Why all the intellectual bs? The fact remains the achilles heal of sikhism is its very egalatarian nature. While espousing peace, and acceptance, we should be instilling true pride in the sikh youth and community. The categorization of our religion as inferior by others can be taken up as a point of pride by us, and used to unite us further. But do not forget, and I think most people do today. Trying to separate sikhism from its punjabi roots is like trying to glue a fallen tree to its stump. The accomplishment of sikhism and sikhs, and especially its martial feats, are highly woven with the tough and resilient nature of punjabis themselves. I think the reason we as a people are being "amalgamated" or "absorbed" in India and abroad is due to both the downside of progress and prosperity, and our continuing dispersal from our punjabi roots. Just some thoughts.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 27-Jan-2007, 13:06 PM
Bijla Singh's Avatar Bijla Singh Bijla Singh is offline
 
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Re: Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

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You are highly mistaken. Sikhi is the power of bravery. Baba Banda Singh wasn't a Punjabi and how many out of Panj Pyare do you think were Punjabis? Guru Sahib wants a Sikh who can sacrifice not someone who is a Punjabi.
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