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10-Nov-2004, 14:57 PM
|  | | | | Enrolled: Oct 24th, 2004 Location: Delhi (India) Age: 61
Posts: 16
| | | | | |  The Turbaned Sikh
French Government’s Misunderstanding of the Term ‘Religious Symbols’ Apropos the case filed by certain students in France regarding the controversy about the wearing of ‘patkas’ or turbans or ‘chunnis’, a convincing ‘legal ground’ (argument) may run as under:- With regard to the above issue the Sikh religion does not prescribe any religious symbols—it is the other way round.Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/987-the-turbaned-sikh.html Homo sapiens are born with certain corporeal attributes—which include, inter alia, the hair on the scalp and around the chin. A human, being in his holistic form, cannot be called a “religious symbol” because, by definition, a symbol is either an ‘add-on’ or a ‘shear-off’, e.g. the circumcision by the Muslim males and shearing of hair by certain religious denominations—nay, no religion in the world explicitly prescribes the shearing of the hair; even the Hindu gods, like Lord Rama & Lord Krishna (and even the Hindu ‘rishis’) are depicted in the pictures as wearing the hair in its Natural length.Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987 Hence, it is the non-Sikhs who have created “religious symbols”, if any, with regard to the objects in issue (controversy). As far as the wearing of patkas goes, it is a way of keeping the hair kempt—one way of doing so is shearing the hair. No one way is better than the other— either medically or in civility; however, spiritually it can be demonstrated that long hair act as the ethereal antennae and, therefore, most of the renowned thinkers (philosopher & scientists) chose, and continue to choose, to wear long hair. Hence, the Sikh Gurus, too, favoured the wearing of the hair in its natural length. Thus, long hair does not fall within the ambit of the term “religious symbols”, nor does the way it is being kept kempt—to treat it otherwise is not only unjust, unreasonable, irrational, unfair and a gross miscarriage of justice, but also warrants a class-action under the International Law before the International Court of Justice on the ground of injury by the State to the Basic Human Rights of the Sikhs who are citizens of France. Prof. Gulshan Bajwa N.B.: I am sad to inform that immediately after the above controversy appeared on the Internet and before the French Court's verdict, I had sent this Article to a sikhsite (namely, sikhnet.com)-- who unfortunately refused to publish it. Thereafter, I requested its moderators to at least intimate its contents to the Ld. Counsels for the Sikh boys whose case was coming up for arguments in the said Court. Alas! They did not do so in time-- belatedly, the French Sikh 'jatha' (at present in Delhi) is now veering round to calling 'turban' as a "natural dress" of the Sikhs! Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh! |
11-Nov-2004, 09:45 AM
| | | | | Enrolled: Oct 24th, 2004 Location: Delhi (India) Age: 61
Posts: 16
| | | | | |  Re: The Turbaned Sikh
About a decade and a half ago I advocated ready-made short turbans/patkas when I found that some Sikhs-- especially those in the 'driving trade', were unable to keep their hair kempt and wearing turbans in a rushed & untidy fashion and, thus, giving a slovenly view of a Sikh's appearance to the people in other states of India. That problem has been solved; but still the documentaries, TV News and advertisements depict unimpressive individuals instead of the handsome & healthy Sikhs of Punjab. Could we care more? Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987
Incidentally, in official or demi-official correspondence the parting salutation "With regards" has no English beginning; my brother (who was an IPS Officer) and I started this practice-- which has now become common place even in the USA.
Prof. Gulshan Bajwa |
11-Nov-2004, 09:53 AM
|  | SPN Forum Leader | | | Enrolled: Jul 26th, 2004 Location: New Delhi, India Age: 42
Posts: 488
| | | |  | | | Re: The Turbaned Sikh
prof bajwa
just a question, no offence, just curious
In actual meaning you advocated a cap that looked like turban or patka, is it so or i didnt understand right? Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987
bhul chuk masaf
gurufateh |
19-Nov-2004, 23:20 PM
| | | | | Enrolled: Oct 24th, 2004 Location: Delhi (India) Age: 61
Posts: 16
| | | | | | | Re: The Turbaned Sikh
Dear Mr. Etinder,
The ready-made turbans which I suggested were soon made commercially available at Gurdwara Bangla sahib (New Delhi) by some enterprising businessmen. The alternative suggestion was for 'patkas'-- at that time hankerchiefs used to be tied around the bun ('juda') and patkas were not in fashion. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987
Regards,
Humanist |
20-Nov-2004, 00:15 AM
| | | | | Enrolled: Jul 11th, 2004 Location: We Are PENN STATE!! Age: 27
Posts: 385
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Liked 24 Times in 19 Posts
| |  | | | Re: The Turbaned Sikh
Quote: |
Originally Posted by humanist About a decade and a half ago I advocated ready-made short turbans/patkas when I found that some Sikhs-- especially those in the 'driving trade', were unable to keep their hair kempt and wearing turbans in a rushed & untidy fashion and, thus, giving a slovenly view of a Sikh's appearance to the people in other states of India. That problem has been solved; but still the documentaries, TV News and advertisements depict unimpressive individuals instead of the handsome & healthy Sikhs of Punjab. Could we care more?
Incidentally, in official or demi-official correspondence the parting salutation "With regards" has no English beginning; my brother (who was an IPS Officer) and I started this practice-- which has now become common place even in the USA.
Prof. Gulshan Bajwa | I feel I had to answer to this post. I am an 18 year old Turbanned Sikh in America.
I was all into the "cool-fashion" during my early years in high school, then my dhari came in. And yes, this is a huge hit to psychological issues. As the dhari came in, I cared less and less for how I looked outwardly, it did not matter to me, as long as I was just dressed. I went from wearing neat polo t-shirts, to wearing plain colored generic shirts and just a pair of jeans with normal boots.
I also notice this trend amongst many, many other keshdhari youths.
I dont know what happened, but I think its just that you realize it doesn't matter, and your never going to be that incredible model on tv anyway.
Psychological issues take in effect and bam, you looking like a poor loser externally, but whats the big deal? It's not as if I'm in a rush in the morning and I don't have time to tie a nice and tidy turban, its just that.....I don't care. I comb my hair daily, my hair is kempt, everything underneath is neat, just outwardly its plain and simple, and in todays world...deemed "unfashionable" and "ugly".
I don't understand why it matters what the TV depicts us as. Ghandi went around wearing a simple cloth, and he's a legendary figure, both political and religiously. And if we dare to get into politics today, the older generation wants a "nice and neat" looking Sikh who gels his dhari to his chin, wears a nice ironed tuxedo, etc. etc...
I fail to understand why it matters.
It's psychological issues. It's not that my confidence fell and I feel inferior. It's just that once the dhari came in, I became so out of touch with fashionable and neatness assosciated with culture, that it did not matter to me anymore. My confidence was the same, and everything else is fine.
I used to buy hundred dollar sneakers, the latest boots, the newest trend in clothes, nice suits. Now I have multi-colored plain t-shirts, and about 1-2 pair of jeans, and a pear of sweatpants I wear. And a suit for "special occassions". I dont miss the other style I used to have before at all, matter of fact I like the way I am now.
Yes, I understand if I'm getting a job, I must appeal to the employer also.
But, if I'm merely on TV with a successful job already, why should I worry then how people think of me? And why this be called looking bad towards Sikhs?  |
20-Nov-2004, 00:52 AM
|  | | | | Enrolled: Sep 16th, 2004 Age: 32
Posts: 1,345
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Liked 44 Times in 27 Posts
| |  | | | Re: The Turbaned Sikh
Quote: |
Originally Posted by humanist About a decade and a half ago I advocated ready-made short turbans/patkas when I found that some Sikhs-- especially those in the 'driving trade', were unable to keep their hair kempt and wearing turbans in a rushed & untidy fashion and, thus, giving a slovenly view of a Sikh's appearance to the people in other states of India. That problem has been solved; but still the documentaries, TV News and advertisements depict unimpressive individuals instead of the handsome & healthy Sikhs of Punjab. Could we care more?
Incidentally, in official or demi-official correspondence the parting salutation "With regards" has no English beginning; my brother (who was an IPS Officer) and I started this practice-- which has now become common place even in the USA.
Prof. Gulshan Bajwa | As mentioned by humanist basically I dont agree with what he is saying taht People in profeesion like driving cant present themself in proper elegant manner as a sikh should be .
This is not based on my personal idea but due to the fact that i have relatives in the profeesion ( driver) based in jammu and comprise of all kinds , some keep themslves quite tidy and smart and some as you mentioned but it is not due to turban itself it is due to personality it self and how you carry yourself
I have amritdhari driver relative that looks smater than average indian sikh and this is due to his personality his adherence to principle of sikhi
So by saying that we need special dataar ( ready made ) for particular profeesion we basically insulting our own idedtity and i cant bear thi scompromising view of dealing problems in a sikhs life .
I cant see any reason why a driver cant keep himself tidy if he want to do so , the basic problem is most of the driver are just sikh by their family , and most of them dont follo sikhi and this is the main problem and their profession
and i totally agree with SIKH don't understand why it matters what the TV depicts us as. Ghandi went around wearing a simple cloth, and he's a legendary figure, both political and religiously. And if we dare to get into politics today, the older generation wants a "nice and neat" looking Sikh who gels his dhari to his chin, wears a nice ironed tuxedo, etc. etc...
I fail to understand why it matters.
It's psychological issues. It's not that my confidence fell and I feel inferior. It's just that once the dhari came in, I became so out of touch with fashionable and neatness assosciated with culture, that it did not matter to me anymore. My confidence was the same, and everything else is fine.
If we can understand what sikhi is than these things cant be problem any more |
23-Nov-2004, 00:01 AM
| | | | | Enrolled: Nov 22nd, 2004 Location: Amritsar Age: 30
Posts: 3
| | | | | |  Re: The Turbaned Sikh
Quote: |
Originally Posted by humanist About a decade and a half ago I advocated ready-made short turbans/patkas when I found that some Sikhs-- especially those in the 'driving trade', were unable to keep their hair kempt and wearing turbans in a rushed & untidy fashion and, thus, giving a slovenly view of a Sikh's appearance to the people in other states of India. That problem has been solved; but still the documentaries, TV News and advertisements depict unimpressive individuals instead of the handsome & healthy Sikhs of Punjab. Could we care more?
Incidentally, in official or demi-official correspondence the parting salutation "With regards" has no English beginning; my brother (who was an IPS Officer) and I started this practice-- which has now become common place even in the USA.
Prof. Gulshan Bajwa | no, thts not true. a nice n neat turban takes 15 minutes, u cant make excuses for tieing a turban. |
23-Nov-2004, 04:05 AM
| | | | | Enrolled: Jun 30th, 2004 Location: Henderson, NV. Age: 59
Posts: 3,181
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Liked 4,622 Times in 1,917 Posts
| | | | | Re: The Turbaned Sikh
I agree with SIkh.... Why should it matter?? Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987
My nephew Bhajneet Singh works at Gap Corporate. He is 23 yrs old, is making 60k and goes to his office with open Dhari and flip flops.
Tejwant |
23-Nov-2004, 09:31 AM
| | SPN Forum Leader | | | Enrolled: Jul 26th, 2004 Location: New Delhi, India Age: 42
Posts: 488
| | | | | | | Re: The Turbaned Sikh
i agree with u tejwant ji, we need lots of sikhs like bhajneet singh in all walks of life and be kind of torch beares for the young sikhs as well as for the whole world as whole. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=987
gurufateh | 
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