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Can God Make a Rock So Big He Can't Move It?

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 16-May-2009, 10:25 AM
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Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 16-May-2009, 10:39 AM
Sa'ad's Avatar Sa'ad Sa'ad is offline
 
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Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

Such questions deal in semantics and linguistics and not spiritual reality. It is the old and tired question of what happens when an immovable object meets an irresistible force. I am enjoying reading the Guru Granth Sahib Ji tonight and am amazed at how truth is the same for the Sikh and the Chassidic ***. I often wondered how long I will have to leave the auto parts in my yard before they become a car on their own. All one has to do is look at creation to see there is a Creator. Quantum Physics, Sacred Geometry, and Kabbalah all point to Intelligent Design which logically points to a Designer.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 07:00 AM
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Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Questioner View Post
The questioner is asking can God create something more powerful than Himself...All the strength and power contained within that which He creates (which in this case is a large rock) actually belongs to Him. Size is a perception of the human mind within the world of dimensions, but God creates size and dimensions so how can size overpower Him?! Incomparably Great is The Almighty. This question is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows that all power belongs to He. If u want a testimony to His endless power look at how this huge earth effortlessly spins around the sun. THERE IS NOTHING HE CAN'T DO. He is the creator of all things. All power belongs to God. If u disagree then avoid death.
haha, you have ignored the question. but can he create a Earth so massive that he cannot spin it?
"If you disagree then avoid death." - I fail to see any valid point in this statement.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 07:12 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

Bhagatj i

This is a classic riddle from Philosophy. Another example would be: If a tree falls in the Black Forest and no one is there to see/hear it, can one truly say that the tree fell. The point of this question is to get a discussion started about the nature of reality.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/513-can-god-make-rock-so-big.html

The point of the question about God and the rock is to get a discussion started about the nature of God. If a person says, YES, God can create something so large that He can't move it, then one is saying God can create something that would leave Him no longer most powerful. If one says, NO, God cannot create something more powerful than Himself, then one is saying that God is not All-powerful. It is probably obvious to most forum members who have read this thread that the question is an intellectual game of sorts; and it is not the question that is so interesting, but the discussion that would follow.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=513

So IMHO, the discussion is certainly worthwhile, but it is a waste of energy to get emotional about the question.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 09:35 AM
Sa'ad's Avatar Sa'ad Sa'ad is offline
 
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Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

Alright, I have a question. Can the finite mind with it limited perceptions and languages comprehend the infinite nature of Ik Ong Kar? And, what is meant by socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ].
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=513
jy ko AwKY boluivgwVu ]
qw ilKIAY isir gwvwrw gwvwru ]26]
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 10:48 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG HE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

Sa' ad ji

Good point


jy ko AwKY boluivgwVu ]
qw ilKIAY isir gwvwrw gwvwru ]26]


ਕੇਤੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
kaethae aakhehi aakhan paahi ||
Many speak and try to describe Him.


ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
kaethae kehi kehi outh outh jaahi ||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=513
Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed.


ਏਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥
eaethae keethae hor karaehi ||
If He were to create as many again as there already are,


ਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਹਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥
thaa aakh n sakehi kaeee kaee ||
even then, they could not describe Him.


ਜੇਵਡੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਵਡੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
jaevadd bhaavai thaevadd hoe ||
He is as Great as He wishes to be.


ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=513
naanak jaanai saachaa soe ||
O Nanak, the True Lord knows.


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥
jae ko aakhai boluvigaarr ||
If anyone presumes to describe God,


ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥
thaa likheeai sir gaavaaraa gaavaar ||26||
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||

Not the expert, I am not sure however of your first line -- socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]. How does it fit in the shabad with greatest fool of fools? Appreciate your insight, as the last two of your quote are in Japji, but the first quoted by you is not part of that pauree.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 11:33 AM
Sa'ad's Avatar Sa'ad Sa'ad is offline
 
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Re: Can God Make a Rock So Big He Can't Move It?

Actually, it does not fit, I was thinking that we can ponder all we want, but is it profitable in coming to know Wahe Guru or are we simply pushing a rock up Sisyphus's Mountain?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 15:34 PM
kiram's Avatar kiram kiram is offline
 
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Re: Can God Make a Rock So Big He Can't Move It?

"is it profitable in coming to know Wahe Guru " - Sa'ad ji

Sharing a saakhi about Bhagat Namdev Ji here :

Once there was a banker whose riches were so great that he had himself weighed with gold which he distributed among his poor fellow citizens. He sent for Bhagat Namdev Ji at somebody's suggestion.

Bhagat Namdev Ji twice sent him word that he wanted nothing, but on the third invitation decided on going to meet him. The banker said that he had distributed a large amount of money through the city, and asked Bhagat Namdev Dev Ji also to take some, so that he (the banker) might reap some advantage from his sharing of his wealth.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=513
Bhagat Namdev Ji replied, 'Why should I refuse anything that would be for your benefit?'
At the same time he reflected that when the banker abandoned the pride of wealth, it would be well for him. He therefore wrote the letter R, being half of God's name - RAM so, on a sprig of sweet basil, and told the banker to weigh gold against it.
In Sanskrit Ram can be written with only two letters as the A is not written out, but is spoken as part of the R. Speaking and spelling the word in English requires adding the A.

The banker asked Bhagat Namdev Ji if he were making fun of him, as his mind told him the small sprig would only take a few grains of gold to balance the scale. Before Bhagat Namdev Ji could answer he added saying, "I have high regard for your Holiness and appreciate your kindness in coming to visit me, please ask for what ever you desire."
Bhagat Namdev Ji replied that laughter and pleasantry were out of place stating that his request was serious he only required gold equal to the weight of the sprig of basil. Upon this the banker sent for a set of small scales, and began to weigh the basil with a little gold. Surprised he was when the gold was not sufficient to counter the weight of the sprig.

The banker then sent for larger scales, and finding the sprig weighed more than five or seven sers (a ser = 2 troy lbs.), he next added six then seven mans (49 sers = 1 mans or maund = 100 troy lbs.) of gold, but still the scale with the basil remained on the ground, while the scale with the gold remained high in the air. The banker then borrowed more gold from his tribesmen, but all would not suffice to lift the basil.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=513
At this the banker and his dependants were very distressed. Bhagat Namdev Ji then saw that the banker had parted with his pride of wealth, but that he was still proud of the good acts he had done during his life, and it was necessary to dispel that pride also.
Bhagat Namdev Ji told him to add the offering of the good acts of his life, and perhaps the scale with the sprig of basil would rise. The banker did so, but still the scale refused to move. The banker's good acts possessed no weight.

Upon this he told Bhagat Namdev Ji to take away all the gold. Bhagat Namdev Ji inquired what use it would be to him for he wanted only the wealth of God's service, to whom all the deities and the powers of both worlds were subservient.
The banker grew ashamed and inspired with faith became a saint of God.

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2009, 21:02 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Can God Make a Rock So Big He Can't Move It?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'ad View Post
Actually, it does not fit, I was thinking that we can ponder all we want, but is it profitable in coming to know Wahe Guru or are we simply pushing a rock up Sisyphus's Mountain?
Sa'ad ji

Many thanks for your presence here. In response, yes for me it is a pointless task to push the rock up the mountain, because we do it with our intellects which are limited. As much as I enjoy discussions of God and His Identity, in the end His Mercy and our submission are what it takes.
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