How Important is Meditation in Your Faith?

I had often pondered about this kind of concepts during my earlier days. And with age comes various experiences which transform into deeper understanding. There came a time when I thought the concepts were wrongly applied as one has to deal with subtle mind and the other trying to materialize "green beans" or "water" on the physical. Yet, there came a time when none of these concepts actually mattered. Guru Granth Sahib does talk about many ways of in Asankh pauris and other pages.

This is my own experience and it is kind of personal in nature. Hard to express but I tried.

 
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God closes doors no man can open & God opens doors no man can close.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/37070-how-important-is-meditation-your-faith.html

One Who Calls Himself A Sikh of The Guru, The True Guru - YouTube

One Who Calls Himself A Sikh of The Guru, The True Guru - YouTube

ਮਃ ੪ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 305}
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37070

FOURTH MEHL: One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name. Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar. Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased. Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name. One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind. ( Guru Granth Sahib Ji- Panna 305 )

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Vaheguru is Gurmantar:

( 1 ) Waheguru Gurmantar Hai - Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen 01/02

Waheguru Gurmantar Hai - Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen 01/02 - YouTube

Waheguru Gurmantar Hai - Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen 01/02 - YouTube

( 2 ) http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...gurmantar.html

Ishna ji,

Guru fateh.

The beauty of Sikhi is that it has a growth factor for all of us as human beings.

By chanting if you mean listening to and singing along Shabad Keertan at the Gurdwara, at home or on your ipod while taking a stroll and understanding the message, then it is the blissful experience which makes us dance from the within.

It is a true spiritual trance, a kind of inner liberation like a butterfly jumping out of its cocoon with its wings fluttering hurrying to the nearest flower to soak itself in its nectar.

Music has a powerful effect on and in us, that is why our visionary Gurus wrote the Gurbani in Raags.

What good does a meditative practice bring us if the practice itself is considered useless?

I agree. This is the same as the Muslim with worry beads in their hands or malas that many Hindus and Sikhs use. Any repetitive mumbo jumbo can get some kind of focus result but what is the end goal of this practice?

One may get better results by working out, in power walking, jogging etc. etc. while listening to one's favourite Keertan, and eventually one will not only see the physical transformation but also the mental bliss due to the endorphins.

Ishna ji,

It is not the matter of abandoning meditation. It is the matter of embracing the right kind of meditation.

As we read in Jap:

Gavyiei Sunhiyei Munn Rakhiyei bhao.
Let's sing, listen and store the message in our mental hard drives so it can be practiced in our lives.

Mechanical rituals of chanting something can only result in dry throats and waterless wells within. The thirst of the former can be quenched with a sip or two of water but the latter can only be filled again with the Amrit shower.

Here is the Amrit Shower- The True Meditation:

Page 119- The interpretation is mine.

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ Mājẖ mėhlā 3. Maajh, Third Mehl:

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵਰਸੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਏ ॥ Amriṯ varsai sahj subẖā▫e. Amrit rains down, softly and gently.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਕੋਈ ਜਨੁ ਪਾਏ ॥ Gurmukẖ virlā ko▫ī jan pā▫e. How rare are those Gurmukhs who find it! (All Sikhs are rare. In other words, we are rare because we are Sikhs)

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀ ਸਦਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਸੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਬੁਝਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ Amriṯ pī saḏā ṯaripṯāse kar kirpā ṯarisnā bujẖāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| The Amrit savourer discovers eternal bliss. With the grace of Ik Ong Kaar, the thirst is quenched. ||1||

ਹਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਵਾਰੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਵਣਿਆ ॥ Ha▫o vārī jī▫o vārī gurmukẖ amriṯ pī▫āvṇi▫ā. I feel the same bliss as my fellow Gurmukhs do, who savour the same Amrit.

ਰਸਨਾ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਹਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Rasnā ras cẖākẖ saḏā rahai rang rāṯī sėhje har guṇ gāvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. Thanks to the Amrit, the taste buds on my tongue have changed forever. Even the speech is full of sweetness and it sings Ik Ong Kaar praises. (Nothing bitter comes out of my mouth). ||1||Pause|| ** **Rahao-Pause is like the nectar of a flower and contains the central idea of the Shabad. The rest of the verses are like petals that compliment Rahao verse.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸਹਜੁ ਕੋ ਪਾਏ ॥ Gur parsādī sahj ko pā▫e. Through the Guru's Grace one can find the Gurmat Fulcrum within;

ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਰੇ ਇਕਸੁ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ Ḏubiḏẖā māre ikas si▫o liv lā▫e. The Grace gets rid of all doubts and lets one focus on The ONE.

ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥ Naḏar kare ṯā har guṇ gāvai naḏrī sacẖ samāvaṇi▫ā. ||2|| Because of Ik Ong Kaar's Grace, one sings the praises and is able to immerse in the Truth. ||2|| (Sach Samavanah means practicing Sikhi through truthful living)

ਸਭਨਾ ਉਪਰਿ ਨਦਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇਰੀ ॥ Sabẖnā upar naḏar parabẖ ṯerī. Ik Ong Kaar, your Grace is on all, with no exception.

ਕਿਸੈ ਥੋੜੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਹੈ ਘਣੇਰੀ ॥ Kisai thoṛī kisai hai gẖaṇerī. It is bestowed upon according to one's needs.

ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥ Ŧujẖ ṯe bāhar kicẖẖ na hovai gurmukẖ sojẖī pāvṇi▫ā. ||3|| Without You, nothing happens at all; the Gurmukhs understand this fact. ||3||

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤਤੁ ਹੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥ Gurmukẖ ṯaṯ hai bīcẖārā. The Gurmukhs understand this objective reality;

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਭਰੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ Amriṯ bẖare ṯere bẖandārā. The Amrit itself is like the over flowing nectar.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੇ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ Bin saṯgur seve ko▫ī na pāvai gur kirpā ṯe pāvṇi▫ā. ||4|| Without listening to the True Guru and practicing his message, no one can obtain this vast nectar ||4||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੈ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਹੈ ॥ Saṯgur sevai so jan sohai. The beauty is shone in those who serve the True Guru.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮਿ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹੈ ॥ Amriṯ nām anṯar man mohai. The Amrit makes the blissful mind do cartwheels within.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਰਤਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥ Amriṯ man ṯan baṇī raṯā amriṯ sahj suṇāvṇi▫ā. ||5|| One's mind and body is so much drenched in Amrit that it turns listening, understanding and practicing Gurbani into one's second nature. ||5||

ਮਨਮੁਖੁ ਭੂਲਾ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਖੁਆਏ ॥ Manmukẖ bẖūlā ḏūjai bẖā▫e kẖu▫ā▫e. The Manmukhs are lost in Me-ism and because of this, they are not capable of becoming selfless.

ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਲੇਵੈ ਮਰੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਏ ॥ Nām na levai marai bikẖ kẖā▫e. They ignore the Guru's message and with the result become dead men walking.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਸੇਵਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ An▫ḏin saḏā vistā mėh vāsā bin sevā janam gavāvṇi▫ā. ||6|| Because of their dwelling in Me-ism, they have lost the opportunity of being selfless which turned them into a waste. ||6||

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਪਿ ਪੀਆਏ ॥ Amriṯ pīvai jis no āp pī▫ā▫e. Only the selfless people- Gurmukhs- have the chance to savour The Amrit because they have been inspired by Ik Ong Kaar.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥ Gur parsādī sahj liv lā▫e. By Guru's Grace, they find the Gurmat Fulcrum within.

ਪੂਰਨ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਭ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥ Pūran pūr rahi▫ā sabẖ āpe gurmaṯ naḏrī āvaṇi▫ā. ||7|| Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent and the omnipresence can only be experienced through the Guru's Teachings. ||7||

ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਸੋਈ ॥ Āpe āp niranjan so▫ī. Ik Ong Kaar is the Immaculate One.

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਿਰਜੀ ਤਿਨਿ ਆਪੇ ਗੋਈ ॥ Jin sirjī ṯin āpe go▫ī. Ik Ong Kaar, The Source of All is the only one who knows the life spans of all that there is.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ਸਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਸਹਜੇ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੮॥੧੬॥੧੭॥ Nānak nām samāl saḏā ṯūʼn sėhje sacẖ samāvaṇi▫ā. ||8||16||17|| Oh Guru Nanak! remember the Naam- the message- forever which will make you find your Gurmat Fulcrum within and by doing so, you shall merge with The One. ||8||16||17||

Exactly!

And I also agree with Findingmyway Ji's point

I believe there is more to it than just a parrot like repetition or sitting in a certain way.

As for improvement, whilst laudable in intent, I can't help thinking of the phrase "trying to run before you can walk"

I think attempting it in the first place would be a major step in the right direction. I know I haven't tried anywhere enough times!

Actually I personally believe there are very good reasons to meditate: physical, psychological and spiritual. And I do so myself. Where I perceive a problem is in the arena where people argue that traditional forms of meditation and breath control lead to liberation/moksha or enlightenment/turyia. The task when reviewed again and again on meditate to liberation web pages is always coupled with the idea that one passes from one spiritual stage to the next, ending in turyia.

This argument depends on whether one actually believes that the spiritual steps are steps, on an incline. Our Gurus do not seem to have agreed with that view. Why cannot the steps be concurrent states of mind? Some may inhabit more than one spiritual state at one time, others inhabiting only one level of consciousness.

Why not have enlightenment, liberation, available to any person who embraces Naam, by whatever means, be it simran or seva, as long as there is consciousness of the divine in each and every one?

These technologies and regimens of the soul are exhausting and rare is the person who achieves the desired goal in the face of a better alternative, which is open to everyone who wants it: Guru Arjan Dev, Ang 1429/1430, Dr. Sant Singh translation (forgive me).

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ
सोरठि महला ५ घरु २ असटपदीआ
Soraṯẖ mėhlā 5 gẖar 2 asatpaḏī▫ā
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl, Second House, Ashtapadees:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਪਾਠੁ ਪੜਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਬੇਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਓ ਨਿਵਲਿ ਭੁਅੰਗਮ ਸਾਧੇ ॥
पाठु पड़िओ अरु बेदु बीचारिओ निवलि भुअंगम साधे ॥
Pāṯẖ paṛi▫o ar beḏ bīcẖāri▫o nival bẖu▫angam sāḏẖe.
They read scriptures, and contemplate the Vedas; they practice the inner cleansing techniques of Yoga, and control of the breath.

ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ਸਿਉ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਛੁਟਕਿਓ ਅਧਿਕ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਾਧੇ ॥੧॥
पंच जना सिउ संगु न छुटकिओ अधिक अह्मबुधि बाधे ॥१॥
Pancẖ janā si▫o sang na cẖẖutki▫o aḏẖik ahaʼn▫buḏẖ bāḏẖe. ||1||
But they cannot escape from the company of the five passions; they are increasingly bound to egotism. ||1||

ਪਿਆਰੇ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਮੈ ਕੀਏ ਕਰਮ ਅਨੇਕਾ ॥
पिआरे इन बिधि मिलणु न जाई मै कीए करम अनेका ॥
Pi▫āre in biḏẖ milaṇ na jā▫ī mai kī▫e karam anekā.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37070
O Beloved, this is not the way to meet the Lord; I have performed these rituals so many times.

ਹਾਰਿ ਪਰਿਓ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਕੈ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਦੀਜੈ ਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਬੇਕਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हारि परिओ सुआमी कै दुआरै दीजै बुधि बिबेका ॥ रहाउ ॥
Hār pari▫o su▫āmī kai ḏu▫ārai ḏījai buḏẖ bibekā. Rahā▫o.
I have collapsed, exhausted, at the Door of my Lord Master; I pray that He may grant me a discerning intellect. ||Pause||

ਮੋਨਿ ਭਇਓ ਕਰਪਾਤੀ ਰਹਿਓ ਨਗਨ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਬਨ ਮਾਹੀ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37070
मोनि भइओ करपाती रहिओ नगन फिरिओ बन माही ॥
Mon bẖa▫i▫o karpāṯī rahi▫o nagan firi▫o ban māhī.
One may remain silent and use his hands as begging bowls, and wander naked in the forest.

ਤਟ ਤੀਰਥ ਸਭ ਧਰਤੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਿਓ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਛੁਟਕੈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੨॥
तट तीरथ सभ धरती भ्रमिओ दुबिधा छुटकै नाही ॥२॥
Ŧat ṯirath sabẖ ḏẖarṯī bẖarmi▫o ḏubiḏẖā cẖẖutkai nāhī. ||2||
He may make pilgrimages to river banks and sacred shrines all over the world, but his sense of duality will not leave him. ||2||

The Ashtapadees is very long, read more http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...=1&t=1&p=0&k=0

But I take the point to be that we find the light with our eyes wide open, and not shut, and gazing through the third eye.