Do members of creation really need humans?

Ambarsaria · #37 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 02:38 AM

Satyaban ji intriguing stuff indeed. Logic must be strong and infalliable. So a question/query and your thoughts,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satyaban

If the dolphins are doing this they are behaving

as is thieir nature.

So we are on the Internet, is it as is our nature .

Extending further is there a limit on "as is their nature" paradigm as we can state everything that everyone is doing is "as is their nature" and hence such are not accountable! Just musing.

Sat Sri Akal.

Satyaban · #38 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Satyaban ji intriguing stuff indeed. Logic must be strong and infalliable. So a question/query and your thoughts,

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji

So we are on the Internet, is it as is our nature

I would say of course. We are social animals and spend much of our time socializing and communicating in some manner.

If dolphins went on a vegetarian diet I would think that is against their nature as would attacking human be. Furthermore I am one of those who believe ego is the causative factor for mankind's woes criminal and social. This certainly separates mankind from the rest of the animal kingdom for as someone said we are animals.

findingmyway · #39 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 21:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

findingmyway ji we need to compare notes. So are you suggesting that there is more intra-species hate, anger, conflict, etc., between say Lion species versus us (humans) because they are dumb and we are smart? I think the truth is the other way.

I am no PETA (http://www.peta.org/) spokesperson but I do believe we don't give the animal kingdom the thought or the time they deserve and we could perhaps learn something if we did.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji,
That is not what I am saying at all. Sinner ji seems to have understood me better! In terms of living in our environment and not squandering resources, I totally agree with you, we have a lot to learn. However, when it comes to other behaviours I am not so convinced (or not always). There must be a reason why the term "animal instincts" has negative connotations!! Anyone who has been harassed by monkeys will agree I'm sure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satyaban

If the dolphins are doing this they are behaving as is thieir nature.

Yes they are but when humans behave like this it is also in their nature but that doesn't make it right. A lot of research is going on in trying to understand what level of understanding other creatures have. So far, it has been found only great apes and dolphins have enough self awareness to understand a mirror. Dolphins show quite narcissistic tendencies. Both show empathy as well as violence.

It is human nature to be filled with and act on violence, ego, lust, anger etc and that is where i think morality, spirituality, law or other aids come in-to help us as humans to figure out which parts of our nature are good and which parts of our nature cause hurt (which i think was the original question?). This is a tool dolphins and other animals don't have. I think there is a reason Gurbani differentiates us from other animals and I think we have a lot more responsibility than animals so comparing our behaviour to them is like comparing apples and oranges in many respects!!

My philosophy in life is to take away the good in what i have observed and use the bad as a lesson. That includes in animal behaviour. We need the external help as we have an ability to go against our natural instincts or use them differently to be better people. Animals don't have this ability. If I've got the wrong end of the stick for this thread I apologise!!

Ambarsaria · #40 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 21:52 PM

findingmyway ji just one comment and I don't think we are too far apart and may be be I think of animals little dearingly,

Quote:

There must be a reason why the term "animal instincts" has negative connotations!!
- Connotation according to Humans and I am sure the feeling is mutual between animal kingdom and human kingdom.

Anyone who has been harassed by monkeys will agree I'm sure

- Now this is disturbing. Perhaps a University research project can be started with a Government grant. May be the perfume (I think you don't wear much, but could be wrong), perhaps they wanted to be closer and you thought it was harassment (I will feel the same), etc. etc.

Hope your fever is gone and you feeling better

Sat Sri Akal.

harry haller · #41 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 22:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

findingmyway ji just one comment and I don't think we are too far apart and may be be I think of animals little dearingly,

Sat Sri Akal.

When I was younger and single, I did not like dogs, once at a park, I spotted a big mongrel dog running towards me with mouth open, saliva everywhere, jowls jumping up and down, and the owner cried out, 'its ok he's being friendly', I have never heard a statement before then, or indeed after that did not fully describe the opposite of what I was feeling, but years later, when Alfie has that look and is running towards someone, I shout the same, and I get the same look of disbelief sometimes, harassment can be animals way of showing love!

Ambarsaria · #42 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 22:09 PM

Harry veer great comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

When I was younger and single, I did not like dogs, once at a park, I spotted a big mongrel dog running towards me with mouth open, saliva everywhere, jowls jumping up and down, and the owner cried out, 'its ok he's being friendly', I have never heard a statement before then, or indeed after that did not fully describe the opposite of what I was feeling, but years later, when Alfie has that look and is running towards someone, I shout the same, and I get the same look of disbelief sometimes, harassment can be animals way of showing love!

So the thing to worry about is that if they are coming towards you it is love but if they are coming after you then it is for sure an attack. I to this day remember a pack of 5 to 6 wild dogs in India chasing me and I out ran them

. I assure you they did not have a look of love

The Look Of Love Abc Hd - YouTube

Sat Sri Akal.

harry haller · #43 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2011, 22:16 PM

Its a bit like when you go to the safari park and the monkeys steal your wheel trims and whatever else they can prise off, it is not destructive behaviour at all, and I can prove this, the last time I went to one of these parks, a monkey managed to loosen and steal a rear bumper quarter, enraged, I ran after him, to behind a bush, where to my amazement, was a half built car! They are stealing bits so that one day they will have enough bits to build a whole car so they can drive out one day!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/37036-do-members-creation-really-need-humans.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37036

Funnily enough a car built by monkeys looked very much like a Ford

Ambarsaria · #44 (**permalink**) 02-Oct-2011, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Its a bit like when you go to the safari park and the monkeys

steal your wheel trims and whatever else they can prise off,
In monkey culture it is not called stealing, it perhaps is known as survival/fun and frolic, teasing, etc.

it is not destructive behaviour at all, and I can prove this, the last time I went to one of these parks,

a monkey managed to loosen and steal a rear bumper quarter,
Again Harry Haller ji you are describing monkeys as thieves, I don't want to call them thieves. They also took away some weatherstripping off my car few years back, but I thought about it as a greater need for them versus me. I have been told that they are actually after some of the glues used with such parts.

enraged, I ran after him, to behind a bush, where to my amazement, was a half built car! They are stealing bits so that one day they will have enough bits to build a whole car so they can drive out one day!
Harry Haller ji can you talk to the monkey king and see if they can properly order the necessary parts from the local salvage/junk yard and pay in "Monkey Pounds" (I don't know if that is what the currency is known in monkey organizations).

Funnily enough a car built by monkeys looked very much like a Ford

So much to learn and unlearn and so little time