Why is Sikhism the True Religion?

Lee · #55 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2010, 18:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairos

no. its about wheter you believe in Jesus, or not. wheter it was true what he said, namely being the only way to the father, or not.

thats not the same thing, as what Jesus said. Jesus said, he is the ONLY way to the father. He did not say : I am A way to the father, amongst many possible others. He did not say : Nobody comes to the father, that through A teacher. He said : Nobody comes to the father, than through ME. So there is not much room of interpretation, but room to wheter believe Jesus is the only way, or he is not. You have just two choices. To believe in Jesus, or not.

In Sikhi it is better to qoute the whole, rather than one part in order to fully understand, so here is the link to te King James version:

We believe in a triune God, God father, God son,and God holy spirit.
God was clearly saying that to receive eternal life, and go to the father, it was that we would believe in HIM, and his sacrifice on the cross, that he paid the price of sin, which was death, for us, so that we would not have to pay ourself for our sins with eternal damnation. Thats why he said he is the only way to the father. We have not other substitute left, that could carry our sins. Only Jesus was able to do it, because he was the only men, that never sinned.God redeems the lives of those who trust the Lord Jesus Christ. If Jesus had been no more than a man - even a perfect, sinless man - he could not have redeemed more than one sinful human life (based on the Levitical law of a life for a life.) But because Jesus was as fully divine as He was fully human, God was paying for the sins of the whole world on that cross at Calvary. As John the Baptist prophetically said of Jesus,

"See! The Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."

So the bible is very clear about this :

Hebrews 9:27:

"Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."

He was the only one who could honestly say:

“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will
never die”

(John 11:25-26).

God sacrificed His only Son, who died in our place, so that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have eternal life. Only the One who conquered death and lives forever can assure us of eternal life.

“How will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation...?

(Heb 2:3).

God promises in His Word:

“Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved”

(Romans 10:13)

the point is, they do not teach Jesus as the only way to God the father.
Their stories are completely different. What is interesting : almost all religions preach, YOU need to make good deeds, to be saved. That is something natural, and encounters to our very nature and understanding. But the message of the bible is unique : We cannot save ourself through goodness, because nobody of us is good enough. We can be saved only through faith in Jesus Christ. We are not saved through good deeds, but that we would do them as guesture of gratitude for our salvation.

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you are saved 19 through faith, 20 and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 it is not from 21 works, so that no one can boast. 22 2:10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them. 23

Well, the bible is quit clear. There are not many saviors, only Jesus Christ. Only in his name we can find forgiveness for sins, and eternal life.

I believe God is the creator and sustainer of all creation, and he transcends creation, but he is as spirit a separate entity of creation.

God has asked his children to go all over the world, to preach the gospel. I think that is Gods choosen way to reach the world, and to save whoever reacts positively to his call for salvation. I don't think God uses other stories of other cultures to do that.

My teacher is Gods holy word, the bible.

" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

that doesnt include creation as a whole.

Kairos Ji,

Again all that you say is down to individual interpretation of scripture.

Let us remind ourselves that it is in fact common knowldge that the words contained in each and every modern day bible, are not the same as contained in the original works.

King James, changed swaythes of it to suit his own needs. Have you studied the original langue of the Bible?

Can you be 100% certian that Jesus said 'I am the only way' for example, or do you rely on others translations of the original text?

Kairos · #56 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2010, 18:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Kairos Ji,

Again all that you say is down to individual interpretation of scripture.

i don't think so. The text is clear enough in a way, that there are only two possibilities : wheter you believe , Jesus is who he claims to be, or you don't.

Wheter you believe, Jesus Christ is the only way to the father, or he isnt.

Quote:

Let us remind ourselves that it is in fact common knowldge that the words contained in each and every modern day bible, are not the same as contained in the original works.

we have thousands of manuscripts, which are dated very close to the date of the events. We can compare them. And we can know, we have very accurate translations. So this argument is really not a escape.

Quote:

Can you be 100% certian that Jesus said 'I am the only way' for example, or do you rely on others translations of the original text?

there is absolutely no doubt about that. You can use even a interlinear bible, with a direct translation of the greek text to english ;

http://www.biblestudytools.com/inter...=john+14&t=kjv

Tejwant Singh · #57 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2010, 23:00 PM

Kairos has shown that blind faith makes people blind because TRUTH needs no faith nor any belief. Truth stands on its own.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/31467-why-is-sikhism-the-true-religion.html

But I must commend him to keep on insisting about his BLIND FAITH.

If he believes in the "Truth" of the Bible then he must understand these verses which shows his God not being a very good entity but to the contrary, a murderer and a rapist:

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will thrust you through, smash your children to pieces before your eyes, and rape your wife.

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31467

These are just two verses out of many in the Bible which shows how ruthless and immoral this God is.

One can only wish him/her the best in search of the truth.

Tejwant Singh

Kairos · #58 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh

Kairos has shown that blind faith makes people blind because TRUTH needs no faith nor any belief. Truth stands on its own.

It depends what truth you talk about.....

Quote:

But I must commend him to keep on insisting about his BLIND FAITH.

why do you think my faith is blind ? And what makes you think, yours is not ?
What differentiates us ?

Quote:

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will thrust you through, smash your children to pieces before your eyes, and rape your wife.

before you make a prejudgement, you should understand the context, and the reason this was written.

http://www.bibletrack.org/cgi-bin/bi...r=0&mo=9&dy=20

this oracle was the expression of wish and sentiment of the jews against the babylonians in reason of their deportation to babylon and bad treatment.

Quote:

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

The Jews had been doing a lot of pagan sacrificing - even human. This was God's just response and judgement to such sick behavior, and didn't happen from one day to the other. God was adverting the Jews a long time, until time for judgement was coming, it was simply enough.

a interesting study :

http://www.raystedman.org/old-testam...r-and-the-clay

Quote:

These are just two verses out of many in the Bible which shows how ruthless and immoral this God is.

only someone, that has no knowledge of the background, and the scriptures as a whole, makes such a judgement.

Seeker9 · #59 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2010, 05:27 AM

"only someone, that has no knowledge of the background, and the scriptures as a whole, makes such a judgement."

Dear Kairos Ji
Your defence is weak

You can scrutinise the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as much as you want and you would not find such references

How someone chooses to interpret these verses is no more than that...their interpretation

The Bible as written originally did not have such commentary
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31467

So you can try and justify it

Personally, I think these sort of verses display the sentiments of the writer and not the one true God you claim to follow

Kairos · #60 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2010, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker9

"

How someone chooses to interpret these verses is no more than that...their interpretation

the better someone knows the background the better he can interprete and understand the scriptures. Something, it seems your friend is weak at.

Quote:

The Bible as written originally did not have such commentary

of course, its upon us to study the bible, and to understand what was written, based on the context.

Quote:

Personally, I think these sort of verses display the sentiments of the writer and not the one true God you claim to follow

the bible does always take into account the personality of the writer, and his sentiments. In case of the verses in Jesajas, what he wrote, were just his sentiments and wishes based on the deplorable situation.

In case of Jeremia, what he prophetized, happened afterwards.

Seeker9 · #61 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2010, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairos

the better someone knows the background the better he can interprete and understand the scriptures. Something, it seems your friend is weak at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairos

No. If these scriptures are, as you have said earlier in this thread, the Word of God and the Word of God is infallible, then such interpretation is unnecessary

Re Tejwant Singh Ji's commentary, I would say this and his earlier posts have been absolutely spot on. And he has frequently demonstrated a deeper knowledge and understanding of the Bible than the defenders of the faith who grace this forum!

of course, its upon us to study the bible, and to understand what was written, based on the context.

No it isn't. My comment above refers. I note no background context is necessary when reading the Sikh scriptures.

the bible does always take into account the personality of the writer, and his sentiments. In case of the verses in Jesajas, what he wrote, were just his sentiments and wishes based on the deplorable situation.

Now you really are contradicting yourself having acknowledged the human element whereas earlier you stated it was scripture direct from God

In case of Jeremia, what he prophetized, happened afterwards.

And when was that written in relation to the actual event? I do hope this isn't another convenient self-fulfilling prophecy as written by the author

Kairos · #62 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2010, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker9

And when was that written in relation to the actual event? I do hope this isn't another convenient self-fulfilling prophecy as written by the author

it happened not much time afterwards.

http://www.bibletrack.org/cgi-bin/bi...11&dy=14#Tough

Nebuchadnezzar's army simply surrounded the city of Jerusalem, and over a period of 18 months they ran out of food according to Jeremiah 52:4-6 (see notes). Add to that a drought, and we see unbearable conditions in Jerusalem. Notice verse 4, "The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them." Imprisoned in Jerusalem without food - the babies were starving for nourishment. And then...the unthinkable in verse 10, "The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat in the destruction of the daughter of my people." That's right - cannibalism right there in Jerusalem. As a matter of fact, everyone suffered the same discomfort prior to their fall due to this starvation tactic used by the Babylonians - even the leadership. Verses 7-8 indicate that the appearance of the leaders of Jerusalem (Hebrew: "naziyr" i.e. consecrated ones, translated in the KJV as Nazarites) were visibly malnourished and poorly groomed.

Tejwant Singh · #63 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairos

It depends what truth you talk about.....

why do you think my faith is blind ? And what makes you think, yours is not ?
What differentiates us ?

before you make a prejudgement, you should understand the context, and the reason this was written.

http://www.bibletrack.org/cgi-bin/bi...r=0&mo=9&dy=20

this oracle was the expression of wish and sentiment of the jews against the babylonians in reason of their deportation to babylon and bad treatment.

The Jews had been doing a lot of pagan sacrificing - even human. This was God's just response and judgement to such sick behavior, and didn't happen from one day to the other. God was adverting the Jews a long time, until time for judgement was coming, it was simply enough.

a interesting study :

http://www.raystedman.org/old-testam...r-and-the-clay

only someone, that has no knowledge of the background, and the scriptures as a whole, makes such a judgement.

I am glad Kairos agrees that the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer of babies. Furthermore, he condones and justifies why the God he serves is a rapist and a murderer. How interesting and what a shame!