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Are Science and Religion Compatible?

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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 21-Jul-2010, 20:33 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

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Bittu ji

What position am I trying to preserve? It is time to return to the discussion and stop this.
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ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੂੰ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਕਰਤੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਵਣਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਣਿ ਰਤੜਾ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥
jae ko moon oupadhaes karath hai thaa van thrin ratharraa naaraaeinaa ||
If someone is going to teach me something, let that be that the Lord is pervading the forests and fields.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 21-Jul-2010, 21:44 PM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

Bittu, ji,

Guru Fateh.

Still waiting for the response about your start in Christianity as I asked you. Please do not feel hesitant to share and were you able to know what omnipotence really means or not? I am sure you are aware that you can use the help of internet dictionaries.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/31383-are-science-and-religion-compatible.html

And, please act like Jesus and be polite and respectful. Your recent posts have shown the contrary.

I would like to share one thing though that you may not be aware of, that I am well versed in OT, NT and the scriptures from other main religions. We can learn a lot from each other provided we have no other agenda which makes us rude, full of hatred and disdain that I am sure a Christian or a Sikh or a person who breeds goodness within is not like.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383

So, stick to the questions asked rather than prejudging others and playing God which you have done often in your posts, which is a shame because it is so UNJESUS like.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 21-Jul-2010, 21:59 PM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittu View Post
Dear Bmandur,

I posted reply but administrator deleted my post. Ask her to show that messege. And trully she is hiding truth, I presented.

Bittu.
Bittu ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are being unfair to Narayanjot Kaur ji and to this forum where you have the liberty to say what you have said in many of your posts. Once again you are acting very UNJESUS like when you claim that she is hiding the truth.

This would be the most open forum you would find on the internet because we as Sikhs- students, learners- love to learn from others and share ideas how we can become better within. Many forums would not have given you a chance to continue when you started with your UNJESUS like behaviour in your posts.

Truth needs no belief, no faith because it stands on its own, that is why Guru Nanak wrote IK ONG KAAR SATNAAM, the first two words in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru and you know what the second word means.


In case you did not know, I do not consider Sikhi as a religion, faith or a belief but a way of life to seek SAT which needs none of these things I mentioned.

No one can hide the SAT no matter how much one tries. Blind faith and belief make people blind because TRUTH does not need either.

Lastly, I will urge you NOT to post any URLs here but share your own views. One can be very good at copying and pasting URLS but they are of no use when one can share things directly.

I would urge the Moderators to delete any URLs posted here because this forum is an open discussion forum where one can post one's thoughts instantly unlike other forums.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 21-Jul-2010, 22:09 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

Tejwant ji

You as usual give some good advice and food for thought. Beyond that your perspective is one that keeps discussions free from sectarianism in places where it has no logical role to play.

Whatever position I am trying to preserve is a mystery but Bittu can explain his thoughts if he wants to do so. I was not offended and understand his frustrations even when I do not agree. Thank you.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 22-Jul-2010, 00:46 AM
polpol's Avatar polpol polpol is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

I found the following article and would like to share it here as I found it most amusing. The legend says the second student was Einstein but this is false. Enjoy!

God vs. Science

'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist
professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his
new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely. '

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a
moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here
and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer
that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor
says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the
student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er.yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to
the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this
world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the
lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues on to another student. 'Do you
believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you.

Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for
that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his
own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

'Yes.'

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested.

The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.
'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we
don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below
zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There
is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than
the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study
when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter
have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of
heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence
of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the
absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it
isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir.

Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have
low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have
no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't
it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness
isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor, my point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can
you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and
magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the
absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students
that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the
other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student
looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen
the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there
anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no
brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man
answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'
Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'of course, there is. We see it
every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It
is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.
These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the
absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what
happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that
comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down...a very interesting semester, indeed!
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 22-Jul-2010, 01:39 AM
polpol's Avatar polpol polpol is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

Dear All,
I sent the previous post without knowing about the conflict raised by our friend
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383
bittu. I do not wish to add to the confusion and hard feelings, I really thought it is amusing and it is not to be taken sereously. So peace to all...
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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 22-Jul-2010, 03:17 AM
polpol's Avatar polpol polpol is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

My dear Bittu, I want to thank you because you have shown what a wonderful site this is, considering the respect and patience the participants have shown you.
Now I am worried about you. You are slowly but surely placing yourself in
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383
the position of a victim which is quite common among fanatics. What I don't understand is that you live in India and you have lots of religions to chose from yet you chose the most alien to the culture you live in. How can you identify with a religion that clearly uses the Bible to promote american neo-colonialism and a most perverse type of pseudo-religeous positivism (or vice-versa). Please explain how you can possibly identify with the founder whose name (a pseudonyme for sure),reminds us of a once popular american canned meat product...you make me want to be fanatic myself and advice you to take it as a sign of God that you found this site, in order to free yourself from the perverse clutches of the beleaf system you are trying to sell. Are you paid for promoting all this nonsense? Do you get some bonus? I am curious of how you got into this and as I said, I am worried about you.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 22-Jul-2010, 16:37 PM
Bittu's Avatar Bittu Bittu is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

Tejwant Singh Ji,fficeffice" />
You said, “Please do not feel hesitant to share and were you able to know what omnipotence really means or not? I am sure you are aware that you can use the help of internet dictionaries.”
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383
I know what Omnipotence means! I already posted reply to you, but Narayanjot Kaur ji deleted it. And I wrote it too, that she deleted my post but I think you didn’t understand that.
Yes from first post I am polite and respectful, but you consider it is rude and disrespect because I am contradicting you! What should I call your earlier post, polite or rude? Respect or disrespect? What you all do is ok for you and Narayanjot Kaur ji, but when I do something it is offensive!!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383

I don’t know about other religious scriptures but I came to know how well versed you are in OT, NT.

The questions you asked me have nothing to do with this discussion. And I know who is prejudging others and playing God in posts. What you are doing is UNSIKH like. No students, No learners, No seekers.

I have tested liberty? this forum offered me. You are right; Truth needs no belief, no faith because it stands on its own that is why Jesus said, “I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life.” (John 14:6) I too believe Christianity is not a religion; it is Revelation from God and Personal Relation with God.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 22-Jul-2010, 16:38 PM
Bittu's Avatar Bittu Bittu is offline
 
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Re: Are Science and Religion Compatible?

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Narayanjot KaurJi,fficeffice" />
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31383

What I meant by hiding truth and preserving position, you know it very well it’s not mystery. Just post my reply which you deleted if you think you are right. If I were frustrated I would not have post replies. It’s you who is frustrated and you proved it by deleting my post.
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