Invite for Sikhs

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #21 (**permalink**) 22-05-2008, 02:39 PM

Don't put Gurbani together in a post praising pornographic gyrations in a video, please. That's beadbi.

Islamfac · #22 (**permalink**) 22-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Well Harjas, I dont recall saying this has anything to do with religion.

I did say that it was a Sikh and Muslim performing in the video.

Are you saying they are not Sikh or Muslim? If so, by what authority do you make this claim?

futurekaur · #23 (**permalink**) 23-05-2008, 12:20 AM

Harjas ji;
I am sorry if you are offended. Let me explain. This video comes from a British tv show 'Britain's Got Talent' it was on a stage before a live audience, no drinking or smoking etc was involved. This is a G-rated situation.
They made it to the finals I believe. Here is a young Muslim boy, a trainee lawyer, who isn't a fanatic, and here is a young man keeping kesh and being a dancer and a comic. This breaks down stereotypes...Is dancing and singing for fun forbidden to Muslims and Sikhs? I don't think so.

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #24 (**permalink**) 24-05-2008, 08:38 AM

Dear Islamfac, my response was directed to FutureKaur because she was praising this video (which has been removed by YouTube) which clip showed males placing hands on genitals and gyrating hips for entertainment, which is kaami manmat and has also Living Guru's bani on her signature, which is innappropriate to have Gurbani next to such commentary.

No, Sikhism has nothing whatsoever to do with dancing as is considered unspiritual and innappropriate behavior, particularly the clip which was a Michael Jackson (not the best role model) imitation with extremely vulgar behavior. Sikh religion has nothing whatsoever to do with behaviors like this, and to my best understanding neither does Islam or orthodox Judaism.

Correct me if I am wrong. If someone is Amritdhari and behaves in such a fashion it would be outrageus. And I do not recall now whether the "Sikh" participant was keshdhari or not, but since the question is raised, "who is a Sikh," and now what behaviors are acceptable to Sikhism, this video was definitely it.

~A non-keshdhari boy dancing bhangra or gyrating obscenely in a dance video represents himself NOT Sikh religion by any stretch of definition. And my comment was simply a request that such behaviors which are besharam not be connected with Gurbani because that is beadbi of Satguru.

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #25 (**permalink**) 24-05-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Check out this link I posted in the Sikh section.

Muslim/Sikh Video

Quote:

Well Harjas, I dont recall saying this has anything to do with religion.

I did say that it was a Sikh and Muslim performing in the video.

Are you saying they are not Sikh or Muslim? If so, by what authority do you make this claim?

Gurbani

Quote:

Dancing is a mode of entertainment in western countries. Sikhism applies the general test mentioned in the Scripture to any entertainment, namely, "Avoid that which causes pain or harm to the body or produces evil thoughts in the mind." (A.G.p 16) Dancing with partners of the opposite sex is likely to cause sensuous thoughts, for intimate bodily movement rouse the lower passions.
However, cultural dances like Bhangra, Gidda, Tiranjan etc. are not forbidden, but these should not be performed in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib. Such dances are meant for social occasions or festivals and have no religious significance. There are other religious dances which are done by the Hindus (as for example Ras-Lila), and also by Muslim Sufi mystics. Such dances are not permitted in Sikhism. What the Guru permitted was 'the dance of the mind', and not of the body. The Guru says:

"O my mind, dance before the Guru;
If you dance according to the will of the Guru
You will gain happiness, and the fear of death will vanish." (AG, 506).
This kind of dance is the result of spiritual ecstasy, and is free from physical jerking and gymnastics.
Similar is the Sikh attitude to Discotheque. Disco is a blend of physical movements related to loud pop music. The lights in the hall or the room are deliberately kept dim to enable the partners to get closer and make love easier. As disco is likely to arouse sexual feelings, it is not permitted to the Sikhs. Dances purely for the promotion of physical health or fitness are not taboo. Similarly dating or mixing of boys with girls alone for the purpose of illicit love or petting or flirting is forbidden in Sikhism. However, the meeting of a boy with a girl in the presence of their parents or elders of the community in connection with a marriage proposal is permissible.
http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/mansukh/122.htm

Sikhism, whether you accept it that way or not, or respect it that way or not... is a very conservative religion. And such behaviors as shown in the video clip are frowned upon and NOT considered having anything whatever to do with Sikh religion, or Sikh identity, identification with Sikh religion as included under "Sikh" section or to involve Guru Sahib and printed Gurbani in any way shape or form.

I didn’t realise the symbol’s sanctity: Mandira
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1091274

Complaints Filed in India over Richard Gere Kiss
http://www.people.com/people/article...035545,00.html

Quote:

On reviewing the evidence presented before them, Sri Akal Takht Sahib has recognised the deep problem that exists in the UK. As the Sikhs’ supreme authority, Sri Akal Takht Sahib has voiced its concerns by issuing a new 'Sandesh' strongly reinforcing Sikh Rehit Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct) and Gurmat (Sikh principles) on the following issues:

• Any form of intoxicants (alcohol, drugs etc) and preparation or consumption of foods such as meat, fish and eggs are not permitted on Gurdwara property.

• Guru-ka-Langar should be prepared and observed in accordance to Gurus' maryada (tradition).

• No person under the influence of intoxicants is allowed inside Gurdwara property.

• Inside the property of the Guru Sahibs, only the recital of Gurbani, katha, kirtan and reccounting of the Gurus' history are permitted.

• Buildings bought or constructed using the Daswand (one tenth of earnings) of the Sikh Sangat or Gurdwara donations are solely to be used to be used for Gurmat purposes and the betterment of society.

• Anand Karajs (Sikh wedding ceremonies) etc must be performed in Gurdwaras in accordance to Gurmat and the Panthic accepted Sikh Rehit Maryada.

• There is no permission granted for dancing and singing or any acts which go against the principles of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sri Akal Takht Sahib is clear on its position on the above abuses of Sikh principles and has unanimously condemned the abuses towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the exploitation of Gurdwara Sahibs in the UK.

Gurdwaras are where Gurmat ( Guru Sahib’s principles) are implemented and maintained rather than manipulated or exploited. It is the duty of all Gurdwara management committees to adhere to the above and implement this Gur-Maryada (code of conduct sactioned by the Gurus) immediately for the betterment of the Sikh religion in UK.
http://thepanthicotpreka.blogspot.co...ib-issues.html

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #26 (**permalink**) 24-05-2008, 08:59 AM

I might also add, that if you go to a Gurdwara and begin clapping your hands to the kirtan, this would be considered disrespectful to Guru and you would be asked to stop or leave. If you want to understand Sikhism, you have to understand it within it's cultural context and not as converts imposing Western standards of morality which are often perceived as immoral and offensive. Dancing is not accepted as an expression of Sikh religion or within any context of Sikh religion, even Bhangra is frowned on in some sections of Sikh community. And that is Punjabi folk dance, but largely has to do with objection to lyrics which promote drinking, and again sexualized imagery. Definitely this kind of sexual association would be repudiated by Sikh religion and I do believe Islam also. An example would be recent objection of Akal Takht to a Bollywood star who had tattoo of Sikh Khanda on her shoulder and exposed lower back to display it. She was publically criticized and censored by the highest Sikh authority for that action. Please remember India is an extremely conservative country and the negative reaction to actor Richard Gere who publically kissed another Bollywood star, and this created such sense of insult and moral outrage he was asked to leave the country.

A lot of Sikh and Muslim youth imitate western culture, but that would never make such behaviors tolerable or acceptable to Sikh religion which remains extremely conservative. It is an action of a boy individually and nothing to do with Sikh community or Sikh religion. To Sikh religion that video clip is besharam (shameful). To include it in a religious section introducing Sikh religion is equally shameful and a mistake. Most Sikhs would find it insulting to the religion.

namjap · #27 (**permalink**) 24-05-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa

I might also add, that if you go to a Gurdwara and begin clapping your hands to the kirtan, this would be considered disrespectful to Guru and you would be asked to stop or leave.

This is so because in order for a student to follow his Guru, it requires his/her total concentration and total dedication before the veils of ego, I-ness and maya can be lifted. Otherwise, we are just turning the gurdwara into a social club.

The beauty of the Sikh teachings are that the Guru is never physical - Guru is beyond Maya and the worlds of duality. SGGS is the physical rep and the wayshower to reach the True Guru - invisible and strongest force.

May the Force be with you.