Why no meat served in Gurdwara

Astroboy · #10 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 15:15 PM

Here's an excerpt from : Langar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

When serving the Langar, the servers must observe strict rules of cleanliness and hygiene. Servers should not touch the serving utensils to the plates of those they serve. When serving foods by hand, such as chapatis or fruit, the servers’ hands should not touch the hand or plate of those they are serving. Those serving should wait until all others have been completely served before they sit down to eat themselves. It is advisable not to leave any leftovers.
Since some Sikhs believe that it is against the basics of Sikhi to eat meat, fish or eggs, hence non-vegetarian foods of this sort is neither served nor brought onto the Gurdwara premises. Others believe that the reason vegetarian food is served in Gurdwaras is so that people of all backgrounds can consume the food without any anxiety about their particular dietary requirement and to promote complete equality among all the peoples of the world. Alcoholic and narcotic substances are stringently against the Sikh diet, hence these with any meat products are strictly not allowed on Gurdwara premises
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/18095-why-no-meat-served-in-gurdwara.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18095

kds1980 · #11 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 15:25 PM

my personal views are that diet is an environmental issue.sikhism started in punjab and
majority of sikhs are punjabi's .There was never shortage of vegetarian food in punjab and due to influence of vaishnavism sikhs .The practice of vegetarian langar got mass acceptance.Now if in future poor fishermen of coastal area will embrace sikhism then they will obviously serve fish in langar as fish in coastal area is much cheaper than vegetables

Astroboy · #12 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 15:33 PM

Why are 3HO and Gora Sikhs vegetarians ?
Why are Nirmala Sikhs vegetarians ?
Why are Namdharis vegetarians ?
Why are Radha Soamis vegetarians ?
Why are AKJ's vegetarians ?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18095
Why are Sufis vegetarians ?

Randip Singh · #13 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 19:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

After reading the thread, "Fools who wrangle over flesh" - my question is:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

Why no meat is served in Gurdwaras ?

Could it be because of this :-

Health Benefits of A Vegetarian Diet | DoItYourself.com

There are two separate issue here:

1) Why meat is not served in Gurudwara?

2) Health Benefits of Vegetarianism?

So on issue 1:

Meat is not served in Gurudwara's because one has to remember that a Gurudwara is open to all. This means it has to accommodate for different religions, belief's, etc. This in effect means people have different dietary requirements. A safe option and compromise between different faiths was vegetarian. Both Hindu and Muslim found it acceptable. If you study the history of the Gurudwara''s (or Dharamsala's prior to this you will have your answer).

Saying that there are Gurudwara's in India eg Gwalior where meat is served on occaisions. Nihungs on occaision serve meat as Mahaprashad at langaar.

Issue 2:

Is vegetarianism healthy? Yes and no. As an ex-body builder I have found that moderate amount of lean red meat (say once a month), fresh fruit, vegetables, lean chicken, eggs etc can enhance people health and physical performance.

On a side note there are some very unhealthy vegetarian foods (which particularly Indian people eat), ghee, halwa, nuts etc. This maybe the reason why hearth problems are common amongst Indo people.

Randip Singh · #14 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 19:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

Why are 3HO and Gora Sikhs vegetarians ?
Why are Nirmala Sikhs vegetarians ?
Why are Namdharis vegetarians ?
Why are Radha Soamis vegetarians ?
Why are AKJ's vegetarians ?

These are all cults heavily influenced by Vaishnavism. If you read into Sikh history the real split amonst Vegetarian and Meat Eating Sikhs started with Bandha Bahadhur who who was heavily influenced by Vaishnavism.

This ineffect caused a rift in the Khalsa with the Khalsa splitting into Bandhi Khalsa and "Tat" Khalsa. This was reconciled but this rift appears every 60 to 70 years or so. We are going through a rift at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

Why are Sufis vegetarians ?

Was Ibn al Ghazli a vegetarian? Sheikh Farid? The Naqusbandi Order?

I think some Sufi's are vegetarian but not all.

Randip Singh · #15 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 20:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

My question still remains unanswered : Why don't Gurdwaras serve meat ?

My point ? If vegetables are living and feel pain just like animals, then why not serve meat and vegetables in Gurdwaras ?

Is this a psychological question ? No.

The Vashnavite belief to Karma and reincarnation is markedly different from that of the Sikh one.....

The Vaishnavite belief is that there is some order or Karm....i.e. mineral to vegetable to animal then human.........and because the animal is closer to human if we eat it we incur more sins in terms of Karma.

The Sikh view is that we can be mineral then human................we can be vegtable then human.......we can be animal then human.......there is no order or additional sin placed on eating an animal or vegetable..........

On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the following is written:

ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa. chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. rahaa-o.
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.
avar na doojaa karnai jog.
taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.

Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. Pause
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.
No one else can do anything at all.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Now coming to the question of pain which is an entirely different discussion....please define Pain? Is Pain more or less when I cut my leg or when I see someone starving on tv? In order to feel pain to you have to be conscious of your existence? Are animals conscious of their existance? Are plants conscious of their existence? What is the Sikh view of pain? Sadna was a butcher and yet his Sloks are included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Why is this?

Astroboy · #16 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 20:20 PM

Thanks for your contributions kds ji and randip singh ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18095

My doubts still exist because Sikhs are saying it is OK to eat meat and at the same time are tolerant to other sects who come to the gurdwaras - by opting to offer vegan langgar (which is acceptable to all). Probably no emphasis was made by Sikh Gurus on choice of food - but Sikh Rehit Maryada does mention the method of slaughter of animals.

While this is being followed as a standard, no mention has been made about what kind of meat is forbidden. On the other hand, almost all "cults" have their maryada of "strict vegetarianism". These sects/cults are not interested in the spirit of the Khalsa/Millitary. They are passive in nature. Sheep-like nature.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18095

So are Sikhs concluding that they're better off than all the vegans because of their balance in miri and piri ?

Randip Singh · #17 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 20:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

Thanks for your contributions kds ji and randip singh ji.

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

My doubts still exist because Sikhs are saying it is OK to eat meat and at the same time are tolerant to other sects who come to the gurdwaras - by opting to offer vegan langgar (which is acceptable to all). Probably no emphasis was made by Sikh Gurus on choice of food - but Sikh Rehit Maryada does mention the method of slaughter of animals.

The Sikh diet is not quite "veganesque" as we have a lot of milk products (and we all know the process by which milk is obtained…..hardly pure vegetarian).

I think you need to look at the basics of Sikhism and the historical context in which langaar was set up. Muslims and Hindu's at each others throats. Various castes at each other throats. Many sects of Hinduism at each others throats.

Guru Nanak tried to get these people to sit together on an equal footing……and what better way than to have a communal kitchen……but then the question of what food to have arose, and logic would state that a vegetarian compromise was seen so. Saying this there ARE Gurudwara's in India where meat IS served as Langaar. So there is obviously no taboo on meat. Also I would put no faith in sikiwiki (a terrible site), which is run by 3HO and Gnssj.

The Rehit Maryada interestingly says what type of animal should not be eaten i.e. Kuttha or that which has had some rituals done over its slaughter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

While this is being followed as a standard, no mention has been made about what kind of meat is forbidden. On the other hand, almost all "cults" have their maryada of "strict vegetarianism". These sects/cults are not interested in the spirit of the Khalsa/Millitary. They are passive in nature. Sheep-like nature.

No meat is forbidden……much like Christianity. The whole point of Sikhi is to let people make their own decision over this issue……hence "fools wrangle over flesh"

Quote:

Originally Posted by begum

So are Sikhs concluding that they're better off than all the vegans because of their balance in miri and piri ?

Sikhi does not say that. It leaves it down to an individual to make that choice and dismisses arguments that anyone food is better or purer than another.

Astroboy · #18 (**permalink**) 19-Nov-2007, 21:01 PM

Randip Singh Ji,

You're are truly an expert in this field. Thanks again, and this time I will keep an open mind about this.

Yes, you forgot to mention - Vegans use leather products too.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18095

Santokh