Translating A Vaar of Bhai Gurdas. Please Help If You Can Understand Punjabi!

Would the sangat bless me with their Punjabi skills. The following is from Vaar 5 Pauri 8 (Bhai Gurdas).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/14090-translating-vaar-bhai-gurdas-if-you.html

I've been trying to understand it in Punjabi and some of translation that is given doesn't seem right. (i've put in square brackets what I understand, could the sangat help me with the words that I don't). Afterwards I can try and translate it. Please help.
I couldn't get the Gurmukhi text in but you can view it at: (may need to download font).

http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.ph...vaar=5&pauri=8



soun sagun beechaaranae noun greh baareh raas veechaaraa||

The life led in the light of omens, the nine planets, the twelve signs of the zodiac;

[soun = monsoon season, same as saavan?. Sagun = auspicious. Beechaaranae = promoted/believed. Noun greh = nine planets. Baareh raas = twelve signs. veechaaraa = belief?]
Line 1



kaaman ttoonae aouseeaaan kan sohee paasaar paasaaraa||

Incantations, magic divination by lines and by the voice is all futile.

[kaamam = ?. Ttoonae = talisman. Aouseeaaankan=? sohee=? paasaar=? paasaaraa = ?]




gadhon kuthae bileeaaan eil malaalee gidharr shhaaraa||

Cries of donkeys, dogs, cats, kites, blackbirds and jackals cannot control our lives.

[animals known but shhaaraa = ?]




naar purakh paanee agan shhik padh hiddakee varathaaraa||

It is superstitious to draw good or bad omens from meeting a widow, a bare headed man, water, fire, sneezing, breaking wind, hiccups;.

[naar=women. purakh=man. paanee=water. agan=fire. shhik=sneeze. padh=breaking wind. hiddakee=hiccup. varathaaraa = ?]


thhith vaar bhadharaan bharam dhishaashool sehisaa sansaaraa||

Lunar and week days, lucky-unlucky moments and going or not going in a particular direction

[thhith=lunar dates. vaar=days. bhadharaan=lunar month after savaan, considered unlucky. bharam=illusion/superstition. dhishaashool=direction, sehisaa=?, sansaaraa=the world.
Line 5



val shhal kar visavaas lakh bahu chukheen kioun ravai pathaaraa||

If a women behaves like a prostitute and does every thing to please everybody, how can she be loved by her husband.

val = way. shhal=fraud/ruse. kar visavaas = to trust. lakh=10,000. bahu=wife? chukheen=?. kioun ravai = why remain. pathaaraa=?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090


guramukh sukh fal paar outhaaraa ||a||

The gurmukhs who reject all superstitions enjoy happiness with their Lord and get across the world-ocean.
sukh=peace. fal=fruits. paar= opposite bank. outhaaraa=disembarking.

 
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Don't all jump in at once!

Maybe you could pm the giani from malaysia. He could most probably help you.

Sorry das cant help

Which giani from Malaysia?

Gyani Jarnail Singh in this forum. or Amarpal

Dear Dal Singh,

Let me see if I can be of some help. I'm a "big picture" person, so let me try and give you the BIG PICTURE of what Bhai Gurdas is trying to say in this stanza.

In lines 1-5 he lists a bunch of practices, folk beliefs, and what we may call "superstitions" that the people of his context relied on to live their lives. He is obviously very critical of these things coming from a Gurmat perspective.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090

Line #6 is using the metaphor of a ***** (an "unvirtuous woman") to underline his point that superstitions don't get you anywhere. The "*****" is the Manmukh who is swayed by the above-mentioned superstitions, and the "Husband" is the Guru/God.

Do you see?

Now the last line makes more sense: Bhai Gurdas is pointing to the Gurmukh, the opposite of the above-mentioned person, who doesn't believe in these things, is loved by God and Guru, and enjoys the "fruit of peace" (Sukhphal) while finding deliverance/liberation (Par Utara) from this messy world.

Does that help?

Hey SMD,

Thanks for your input. It was helpful and confirmed what i believed about the meaning of the var.

On another thread we talked about misinterpretation of Gurbani and how often, the words in the translation don't strictly conform to the original.

I think the above var is very important as a warning against superstitious beliefs (beham) but from my understanding the translator has added his own interpretation on the text. I think it would have been better to make a stricter translation and perhaps include a brief paragraph afterwards explaining it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090

For example I can't see the word that corresponds to "prostitute" in the original but my Panjabi isn't that takree so it could be an oversight.

Also the use of the word "omen" in the first line, what is the Panjabi equivalent of omen? Is it soun?

The concluding line goes:

guramukh sukh fal paar outhaaraa ||a||

Trans: The gurmukhs who reject all superstitions enjoy happiness with their Lord and get across the world-ocean.

I feel a more accurate translation would have been:

Through the peacegiving fruit [of Sikhi] Gurmukhs cross the worldly ocean to reach the opposite bank.

(just realised how unpoetic I am! )

Your absolutely correct, Dal Singh, Jodh Singh's translation is very clumsy: sometimes too literal, sometimes he takes too much liberty with the work.

I know for a fact that qualified Sikh scholars are working on these issues right now, and I expect that you will see a fresher, more accessible translation of Bhai Gurdas's works in the next few years. The Kabitt Sawaye are in particular need of translation because of the language difficulty in those texts.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090

In the meantime, I highly recommend Hazara Singh/Vir Singh's VARAN BHAI GURDAS STEEK (in Punjabi from earlier in the 20th century).

Yeah,

I'm hoping there is some new stuff in the kabits to give us a better understanding of Sikh theology.

Bhai Nand Lal Goya's work also needs a full translation, I know some are available but a full work is needed. I hear Lou Fenech is working on something like that but if his previous work is anything to go by, expect a westernised attack on the fundamentals of Sikhism/Sikh history.

I'm not too harsh on Jodh Singh because his work is a pioneering attempt. I had another small selection of translations published many years ago and distributed by The Sikh Missionary Centre in Southall (U.K.), but it to suffers from the limitations of Jodh Singh's work and is also highly selective in the choice of vars.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090

But slowly slowly Sikh scholars will get there hopefully. What is disappointing is that the scholars from India do not seem to utilise the Sikh talent available in the diasporic Sikh communities of the west. They should liase, as we have better English skills than them.

Thanks for that Balbir, nice attempt but it has to make sense in context.....not TOO literal mate
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14090


Not that I am any better...