Miracle stories

Satyaban · #10 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2009, 13:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harbansj24

What is a miracle? Satyaban ji says they are unexplained phenomena.

What about perfectly plausible coincidences? Can they be categorized as Miracles?

I will give some examples:

I have related this before. I will repeat it. My mother and elder sister were in a place known as Kamalia in what was then Lyallpur district (Now Faisalabad, Pakistan) at the time of partition. Kamalia at that time had a highly respected person known as Sant Sangat Singh Kamalieye wale. He was very close to Bhai Vir Singh. He had recieved information that some marauders were on the way to the town to ransack it. He immeditely sent message to all Sikhs and Hindus to quickly assemble in the local Kahlsa School building. Within next to no time more than 1000 people assembled in the building. Sant ji did Ardas and asked the Sangat to continuosly recite Japji Sahib.

The raiders came but they bypassed the school building, not giving it any consideration. So not a single person was harmed. Next day the miltary came and transported everyone to the border in trucks.

So would you call this a miracle or coincidence? My mother firmly beleived that it was Sant ji's miracle.

Another incident is provided in thread "why bad things happen to good people?" a kid relates how a parked car in which they were left by their mother suddenly started to roll down hill. But a neighbour's wooden gate came in the way and halted the car.
Is this a miracle or coincidence?

Many times we have heard a patient starts to recover after ardas is done in Darbar Sahib. But the patient knows that ardas is being done for him. Is it not possible that the patient starts getting into positive mode and this triggers positive biochemical reactions in the patient? We have discussed this aspect in diffrent threads earlier.

Their can be several such incidents of completely credible coincidences. But when these occur frequently in a person's life such that the course of his life is changed then maybe collectively they are considered as miracle.

So if a person goes along with "Hukam" and does Simran whenever and where ever he remembers to do it, then he will come across many such miracles.

That is the Sikh way of life

Well my friend I am not qualified to speak on the Sikh way of life but I can address the issues you raised.

In regards to your report of the marauders bypassing the school we don't know their side of the story, were they blinded so they couldn't see the school house.

Relevant to the car drifting away I am sure the fence was there for sometime prior to the incident.

The incidents of the sick getting well in particular cancer is a personal matter to me. People will say she was a real fighter and beat it. What does that say about another case where the person fought it and lost. was that person a real fighter, it's nonsense. Sometimes the treatment finally works or the body simply heals itself.

Peace
Satyaban

harbansj24 · #11 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2009, 16:38 PM

Quote:

Well my friend I am not qualified to speak on the Sikh way of life but I can address the issues you raised.

In regards to your report of the marauders bypassing the school we don't know their side of the story, were they blinded so they couldn't see the school house.

Relevant to the car drifting away I am sure the fence was there for sometime prior to the incident.

The incidents of the sick getting well in particular cancer is a personal matter to me. People will say she was a real fighter and beat it. What does that say about another case where the person fought it and lost. was that person a real fighter, it's nonsense. Sometimes the treatment finally works or the body simply heals itself

Satyaban ji,
I am sorry but I think, I not made myself properly understood to you.

I have said that all the persons were there IN THE SCHOOL BUILDING and NOT in the school compound. In the extraordinary conditions that were prevailing the raiders would not have imagined that the school building would be full of people. They would have thought that it would be empty. Hence they would have bypassed it.

In the second incident, of coarse the wooden gate was already existing. The point being made is that the car started rolling down hill and it encountered a closed wooden gate. The gate need not have been closed. And the fact remains the car rolling down was obstructed in its path by no deliberate action of man but by coincidence of an obstruction coming in the way.

Thirdly we are also talking of a patient who was under medication but was not responding to treatment. But after supplication started the recovery. I have also clarified that the patient knew about the prayer, must have felt good which in turn could have triggered beneficial biochemical reactions that could have led to recovery. So the medication was always there. Different patients respond differently for the same disease with same degree of severity. So obviously there is more to it than medication.

Tejwant Singh · #12 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2009, 21:32 PM

Miracles are nothing but a snakeoil rub.

vsgrewal48895 · #13 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2009, 22:22 PM

REVIEW OF MIRACLES IN SIKHISM

In Sikh history two episodes come to mind, where miracles happening or performing led to serious consequences;

The remainder of this article can be found at the following link

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spirit...-miracles.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/inspirational-stories/26713-miracle-stories.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26713

Warning to Virinder ji: Do not modify editorial changes made by moderators or admin. Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur

Satyaban · #14 (**permalink**) 19-Sep-2009, 07:13 AM

Harbans ji

I look at miracles this way.

The Creator is perfect and I believe as the first verse of The ISA Upanishad says of which I will quote a few lines:

"All is perfect, so perfectly perfect!
Whatever being lives, moves
And breathes on the Earth
At every level from atom
To galaxy is absolutely perfect in its place
Precise and choreographed.
Because "That" flows from the Glory of God.
The Lord,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26713
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26713
The Self,
Consciousness,
The Source." OM

So believing this I see the possibility of a miracle or divine intervention as a violation of The Creator's perfection.

Peace
Satyaban

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #15 (**permalink**) 19-Sep-2009, 08:22 AM

Satyaban Ji wrote:
<<<were they blinded so they couldn't see the school house.>>>>>>>>>>>

On this score we have the Testimony of GURU NANAK SAHIB ji in babar Vani..recorded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Guru Ji records that when Babar threatened attack on the Lodhis of Sultanpur, the Sultan's Hindu Pandit and Mulsim maulvi advisors told him..We will read Mantras and holy invocations...and you will see that the Mughal Cannons of babar will be BLOCKED SOLID, his soldiers will be BLINDED..and thus his armies will be slaughtered. The Sultan apparently beleived them..

Guru Nanak ji says..Koi mughal na hoa aandha !!...Not a single Mughal was blinded, the Mughal Cannons rained Fire..and the Mughals rolled into the Lodhi sultanate..like a steam roller...and Babar ordered the complete destruction of the Towns...even Guru nanak ji and many other fakirs holy men were arrested and thrown into prison...

I am a SIKH..and I place my 100% faith in Guru nanak ji sahib...so no one can be "blinded"...in this way...

Related story (would be a SAKHI equivalent if enough time is allowed to pass )
My neighbourhood has a staunch follower of Baba Nand Singh of Nanaksar. He often goes on long trips outstation and leaves his wife alone in the house. Once it seems a robber/thief/burglar broke into the house. He went about collecting the things dvd player, laptop jewellery etc while the frightened wife hid under the bed. Finally she saw him going to the shelf on the wall that had a photo of nand Singh before which was placed a Goluck - money box. The wife says that when the burglar took the goluck and put it in his bag...he apparently became BLIND...he rubbed his eyes..and then put back the goluck..his eyesight was restored immediately..he then took back the goluck..and was again blinded...so he folded his hands before the photo, put the goluck back, returned all the things dvd player etc and went away taking only a Towel, soap and toothpaste/toothbrushes from the bathroom. This man was telling this sakhi in the Gurdwara and swearing on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...in an attempt to get the sangat to commit to celebrate nand singh barsee every year...no one bought it..so as long as he was here, he made sure of an akhand paath each barsee, but when he moved away..no one took any interest in the barsee anymore....
IMHO..this is how such "SAKHIS" are BORN...and perpetuated by word of mouth...with no real evidence or anything...

Satyaban · #16 (**permalink**) 19-Sep-2009, 09:58 AM

Gyani ji

I don't speak Punjabi so I am not sure I understand your post. I am not sure if there is a line here but if there is which side do you come down on? Is it pro miracle, anti- miracle (this is where I think you will land

) or will you straddle the line?

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26713

Peace
Satyaban

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #17 (**permalink**) 19-Sep-2009, 15:25 PM

Satyaban Jio,
what is it ion Punajbi that you dont understand.
The Pandits assured Lodhi Sultan that the Mughals and Babar will be BLINDED and his cannons blocked.
Guru Nanak ji saw and declared..NOT a SINGLE mughal was Blinded and not a single canon was blocked (cannot fire) The Mughals won the battle with incredible slaughter.
2. Elsewhere in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji "miracle" is considered going AGAINST Natural Laws. IF HE WILLS it..accept IT.
3. The GURUS were ORDERED to perform miracles to show their powers/prophethood etc..as the Rulers who were Muslims do have such proofs of prophethood in their Koran/Bible etc. In FACT such proofs are REQUIRED of a Prophet. The SIKH GURUS REFUSED...and instead accepted DEATH ( in lieu of showing miracles)/
4. Natures Laws TRIUMPH IN THE END. Lazarus who was raised form the DEAD..didnt survive much longer than Jesus...the water that Jesus turned to wine..was drunk and finished...the Five loaves and two fish that Jesus used to feed a crowd..has never been repeated again..

The SIKH GURUS..raised the long DEAD Indian population to RISE UP and FACE the oppressor..these LIVING DEAD are still everywhere in the KHALSA...and will continue..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26713

The WATER that Guru Ji turned to AMRIT still exists today and will continue so long as the PANJ are present..

The SIKH GURUS..started the Guru Ka Langgar ( when Guru nanak ji fed twenty hungry sadhus with his 20 rupees) that continues to FEED the Hungry MILLIONS...even after 540 years after the Gurus demise...and will continue From Kartarpur Punajb it has spread Worldwide to hundreds of thosuands fo Gurdawras..

The Sikh Gurus created the KHALSA GURU...the GRANTH GURU..and BOTH continue to exist and will do so...

SO YES there is a LINE..and I am ON the SIDE of MIRACLES..but NOT the types that BREAK GODS LAWS and are Anti-Nature....BUT those that the SIKH GURUS SHOWED...and that any SIKH CAN SHOW ANYTIME !!

am i clear enough..or and YES Peace from me too...!! ( I love your posts..real eyeopeners sometimes..)

harbansj24 · #18 (**permalink**) 19-Sep-2009, 16:05 PM

Satyaban ji,

Gyani ji has used the right terminology. Sikhs do not believe in miracles that goes against God's laws.

The examples which I have given are perfectly plausible. You may call them coincidences if you please but they do not go against nature.