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Sikhism : Historical Background

May 10, 2006
52
1
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Sometime in life, we all ask some basic questions, and once asked we make at least some attempt to seek and search for their answers. Questions such as:[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]What is the purpose or goal of life? [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]What is this world and who, if anyone created it? [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Who am I? [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]What is my relationship with the Creator, the world and the others? [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]How can I be happy? [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Science, Philosophy and Religion have made, and continue to make, serious attempts to answer these questions; and make further attempts to question the answers thus produced. Quite a few answers produced by a religion are beyond the scope of science. Religions depend upon faith to derive the answers which they may term as 'spiritual truths'. These truths must invite seekers to verify them for themselves through experiences. These answers naturally cover the universal aspects as well as short term and long term necessities of a spiritual life.[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Sikhism is one such philosophy propounded by the ten Gurus. First of them was Guru Nanak who started preaching in 1499 in (Punjab) India. Being a compassionate person, Guru Nanak had observed the selfish ways of life and was touched by unhappiness prevalent in people at large in his time. He saw the tyranny of Muslim rulers. He commented on the weaknesses of both Hindu and Muslim communities. At that time the noble Hindu culture had, in practice, yet again, fallen a victim of decadence. Casteism was yet again rampant and lower caste persons were treated inhumanly. Mechanical performance of rituals had become the norm. Internal purity of mind and spiritual progress were not the aim, only external actions were the aim. Despite the divine knowledge about the four Paths for 'Spiritual Progress' viz. Jnaana(Knowledge) Yoga, Karma(Action) Yoga, Paatanjali Yoga and of Bhakti(Devotion) Yoga being available, upper castes including Brahmins, in their selfish interests, were inhumanly exploiting the lowest castes. On the one hand such divine knowledge was available, and on the other such abysmal inhuman behavior![/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Historical Background : Bhakti Movement[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]It would help to understand the evolution of Guru Nanak's devotional path, Naam Simarana, chanting the Name of Advaitic (non-dual) God. Among many others, the old scriptures like Bhagwad Geeta, Upanishads (Upani) and Naarada Bhakti Sutra (NBS) and even Paatanjali Yoga Sootra have discourses on paths of devotion. Bhakti (devotion) basically is remembering and chanting Names of Gods or Supreme One. NBS is a comprehensive treatise on paths of devotion, inclusive of chanting of His Name, and all other modes described in Guru Granth Sahib (GGS). Bhakti (devotion) movement in India is ancient. Both Patanjali and Naarada are believed to belong to the ancient period, but certainly a few centuries prior to Christ. Bhakti Movement of 'Alawars' was prevalent from 7th to 9th century A.D. in South India. Around 800 AD, the greatest exponent of modern era of Jnaana Yoga, Aadi Shankaraachaarya (Shankara) himself had written and sung devotional hymns; and he, a brahmin, had accepted an enlightened lowest caste person as one of his Gurus. During 11th and 12th centuries in South India Sant philosopher Raamaanujaachaarya (1017-1137) expounded 'Devotion' as per his 'Qualified Monism'. He indeed had rebelled against the caste system of Hinduism. He, a brahmin by birth, accepted an enlightened person of a lowest caste as his Guru! And he preached the lowest castes openly. [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]In north Karnaataka, Santa (Saint) Basawannaa, also a Braahmin by birth, had propounded an adwaitic (non-dualist) Bhakti movement in mid 12th century, through his devotional songs known as 'Wachanas'. He propagated that in the spiritual path all humans are equal regardless of their castes, gender, class and status. He was one of the greatest rebels, if not the greatest, who not only rejected the caste system but also the important concept of rebirth. In his time a galaxy of talented women, the most courageous being Akkaa Mahaadevi, became rebel devouts who were venerated as sants. Santa Jnaaneshwara (1275-1296) of Maharashtra, in the 13th century was highly respected preceptor. [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Naamdeva (1270-1309), also of Maharaashtra, a lowly tailor by caste, enriched the Bhakti tradition with his both Saguna (God with form) and later Nirguna (God without form) devotional songs. In Kashmir, Lalleshwari (1335-1376) propagated 'non-dual devotion' through 'waakhs' (sentences). She, living under a Islamic ruler Shah Mir, proclaimed, "Supreme One pervades the world, Hindus and Muslims are the same." Devotional Movement was brought by Santa Raamaanand in the mid 15th century to North India. He openly sang, "Nobody asks for anyone's caste, for one who chants His Name becomes His." He also propounded a concept that although God Raama was a reincarnation of the Formless One, He is the Supreme Spirit the Formless One. And his disciple Sant Kabir (1440-1510), Ravidaasa (15th century), and Dhannaa (15th century) etc. were preaching 'non-dualistic (Advaitic) devotion'. Ravidaasa was the Guru of Sant Meeraa (1498-1563). (Akkaa Mahaadevi, Lalleshwaree and Meeraa form the trio of famous women rebel devouts that the Hindu society produced 7 to 8 hundred years ago.) Guru Nanak (1469-1538) also taught the same, and used all other names of various reincarnations of Brahman like Hari, Har, and Gobinda etc. to convey that these Names, commonly used to indicate different Gods, in fact, indicate the same Supreme One. Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu (1468-1533) of Bengal, a contemporary of Guru Nanak, was extremely respected in North India, with his Dualism- based- Devotion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Vallabhaachaarya (1479-1531) and Shankar Deva (1499-1569) were extremely respected with their 'Duality based Devotion' in the 16th century in North and Northeast India respectively. In that period the Bhakti Movement spread in the four corners of India. It also refutes the claim of some writers viz. that India was never a nation before the arrival of British. India was a 'Nation' in a deeper sense than in a mere political sense. India was and is a 'Nation' united in every Indian's heart. All these devotional movements are still prevalent in India (unfortunately, except in Kashmir), e.g. Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu's Path is being followed internationally by 'Hare Raama Hare Krishna Movement'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]It is a truism that there are always ups and downs in peoples lives and cultures depending on vicissitudes that they pass through. From this extremely brief view of development of 'Devotion', recurrence of casteism and rebellions against it in Hindu Society appear to be one such phenomenon. What is worth noticing is that Hindu Dharma is a highly dynamic way of life, from which reform movements spring whenever there is a need to suit the changing social, economic and philosophical conditions. It may also be worth noticing that most of the rebellions against Caste System were initiated by Brahmins. Guru Nanak also belonged to an upper caste.[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Thanks,[/FONT]
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Have you read Narad Bhakti Sutra?Father of Das is aHindu and his Guru is Kripalu Ji of Mangarh and great preacher of Narad Bhakti Sutra.

In fact this is the only book which clearly tells for personal worship or idolatory etc.

As per Bhai Bala Janam Sakhi Narad is beheld as Satan but there is verse in Guru Granmht Sahib Ji to put full stop to Narad Bhakti Sutra.

Ang 556

ਮਃ
मः १ ॥
mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ
हिंदू मूले भूले अखुटी जांही ॥
hindoo moolay bhoolay akhutee jaaNhee.
The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way.

ਨਾਰਦਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਿ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਂਹੀ
नारदि कहिआ सि पूज करांही ॥
naarad kahi-aa se pooj karaaNhee.
As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols.

ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ
अंधे गुंगे अंध अंधारु ॥
anDhay gungay anDh anDhaar.
They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ
पाथरु ले पूजहि मुगध गवार ॥
paathar lay poojeh mugaDh gavaar.
The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.

ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
ओहि जा आपि डुबे तुम कहा तरणहारु ॥२॥
ohi jaa aap dubay tum kahaa taranhaar. ||2||


But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||


Tenth Master also tells that real Shiva is formless Nirankar in 405 Triya Charitar and that is as per Tandav Stotra.

Das is not putting much Bani of Tenth Master as Hindus will feel Bad and offended but this bitter pil is there for thier benefit.

Das feels funny when spritly bankrupt Hindus come and tell us about thier preception of Truth while they themsleves ahve so far not understod thier own scriputre even if holy Vedas were to be understood by them correclty first thing they would have done to revert to faith of thier forefather ie Sikhism,which was ended by Budhsit King Nanda in past only branch of brahmins left in west and are present day jews(Sau Sakhi).

So das is again is surprised to see Guru Nanak as upper caste inspite of refualsa to wear Janeu and Manu Samriti talks of varna or professions and there is no bloddy caste or race or Jati in so called Hindusim also as far as thier holy scripture which are in fact Sanatan Dhamri scriputres, also.


Das can just see the deeds of Akal and is in state of vismad or exclamation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
May 10, 2006
52
1
vijaydeepsingh,

The Shloka's you provided are great and I agree with them.
What I don't agree is that Sikhism invented them. There is
not one idea that the guru Granth propagates which had not
been propagated before. Nanak only rehashed in Punjabi/Gurmukhi
what was already said or written in some other language.

There were people before Nanak who had refused to accept the
Caste system. Parmananda and Tirlochan rejected it and they
both find mention in the Granth.

Nanak cannot be said to be the inventor of sikhism.
Nanaks struggle was similar.

The Hindus no longer wear a ‘janneyu’ or shave their
heads but nobody calls them ‘adharmy’. But the moment
a Sikh shaves his beard he is branded as adharmy by
the ignorant Granthi’s. Sikhism today no different from
what Hinduism used to be 500 years ago. Another God
turned against itself. Another edifice created by the
Human mind decimated by Human nature.

“Mund mundae jo sidhhi paee, mukti ped na gaiiya jaee.”

To grow ones hair in order to attain ‘siddhi’ is as illogical
and unreasonable as shaving ones head to attain ‘siddhi’ is.

But the Neo-Sikh clowns continue to say they are different from Hindu's
but we know they say so not not because they are really different but
because they want to be.

Thanks.
 

drkhalsa

SPNer
Sep 16, 2004
1,308
54
Nanak cannot be said to be the inventor of sikhism.
Nanaks struggle was similar.


Dear Friend YOu are right here

Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Revived the Sikh Dharma . make all Mentally blind Hindu and semetic people realise the the original Right way to Worship AKAL



Jatinder Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Bulleia sorry bulle Shah,

Had your Hindusim being OK,then Akal may not have sent Gurus.

Read Vachitar Natak or Sridasam.org.


When ever a new things come,there are some reactionary forces which are upto destroy it and it may get defeeated for soem time.

Vedanta has mnay things not found before even something Adi Sankara Said.

But they did fail due to evil things,which were as per plan of Akal.

As in Vedant we get knowledge but no bhakti to towrads Akal done inn preacticle.

Das agree that Guru did not start faith but it was revival but not rescticted what you call Indian thing as Gurun did travel abroad also.As in past whole world has one faith.Guru even thought Muslim to be better Muslim and Vaishnu to be better Vaishnu but some people wanted to be Like Nanak and they became Gursikh.(Sikhs themselves in the form of Guru)

do you by the way have any examplme of unprescedented example where faith following community istself enjoy the startus of Guru/Avtar/Paigamber etc.

Guru himself took amrit from us,He even underwent Tankha and obyeing the order of Khalsa.

It is foolprof and unprecedented arrangement to defend and regenraate and propoage the faith of same Sanatan (eteranl) God,who created the world and was source of Four Holy Vedas and Four Holy Kateebs(Holy Bible and Holy Kuran).

Had your hindusim by tiself OK,then other folowers say Kabir Panthis etc. could have made similar strong mental,physical and spritual force,Which was made by us only.

there is a new idea,that is not only to belive God is in all but realise this truth and that by serving all and behloding that we are serving God by that,sorry to use term we rather God only serving God.

So for das your words are words of God and via you God wants to see Das singing glory to that Das and if possbile the form of God in bulleshah may get salvation by God in das but truth is that we both are false without God.

God is our Guru so we are Sikh,nowhere anything hindu,a race has to do with God as much god in Hindu Indian as in Muslim Pakistani.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Bulleshah Ji!

Perhaps you want to say that God, Truth and human beings existed also before Guru Nanak Ji came to earth. You are but stressing that Hindu existed before Guru Nanak Ji came to earth.

Well, nobody may disagree with your statement, but this raises another question in minds. What was before Hindu coming on earth?

Quote >>>But the moment a Sikh shaves his beard he is branded as adharmy by the ignorant Granthi’s. Sikhism today no different from what Hinduism used to be 500 years ago. <<<

I have heard people discussing this topic often with God. God always sends them back to their jobs.


Balbir Singh
 
May 10, 2006
52
1
vijaydeepsingh,

HTML:
Had your Hindusim being OK,then Akal may not have sent Gurus.

Nanak never claimed He was sent by some God or 'Akal' to bring some covenant to earth. He always
maintained his ideas are merely a discovery of something that always existed and is for everyone
to discover. The Shri Guru Granth by the is the Guru's word not God's word. For Guru Nanak himself
was a derivative of the society and environment he was born in.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti".[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif](There is only one truth, only men describe it in different ways). - - - The Rig Veda - - -[/FONT]


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"The misguided ones who delight in the melodious chanting of the
Veda - without understanding the real purpose of the Vedas - think,
O Arjuna, as if there is nothing else in the Vedas except the rituals
for the sole purpose of obtaining heavenly enjoyment."
- - - 2.42 - The Geeta - - -[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"To a Self-realized person the Vedas are as useful as a small reservoir of
water when the water of a huge lake becomes available."
- - - 2.46 - The Geeta - - -
[/FONT][/FONT]

Whatever Nank preached was already there. There were many others before Him who talked sense the verses
of whom find mention in the Guru Granth. Nanak was neither the first to talk sense nor the last.
Every thing he said and believed in is decidely Hindu.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Hinduism is not based on mythology. Its the other way round. Krishna did not invent Hinduism. He and his Gita[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]were a product of Hinduism. If you want to continue to believe that Nanak invented Sikhi go on. I have no problem[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]with that. But I will continue to say that whatever Nanak preached was already there. Nanak or no Nanak.[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The search for truth and the seeker always existed. Namdev and Kabir surely got it before Nanak. Nanaks Sikhi[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]was a culmination of the Bhakti movement that started in the 11th century.[/FONT]

HTML:
 God god god god ....God is Guru blah blah....

What is God if not the creation of the yearnigs and the secret desires of the people ??

"The Divine Thread started everything.
The knower of the Thread is a yogi, his Knowledge is
beyond the scope of the Vedas.
Pearls stringed together form an ornament. The Divine Thread holds together the Universe.
The Yogi wears this Thread when he becomes aware of his Divinity.
Established in highest state of Yoga, the yogi discards the external thread.
The wearer of the Thread of Knowledge is never unclean. The Thread exists within him.

Knowledge is the greatest purifier."
--- Brahma Upanishad ---

Baba Nanak say the same? So how does he and Sikhism become non-Hindu when he was saying
exactly the words of Hindu Upnishads about the the sacred thread ? It completely misses me....

Hinduism is the only religion in the world that doesn't ever boasts monopoly on salvation. In fact,
as per Hinduism, any one even an atheist can attain salvation. A Jew, Christian and Moslem can
attain salvation, irrespective of whether they read any Hindu scriptural book.

Charvaka philosophy was founded by Charvaka. The most important book was Brihaspati Sutra.
I am stating things in past tense since I am not aware if copies of this book are available in India.
According to Charvaka, "Material world alone exists and our knowledge comes from sense perception".
This philosophy openly propagated that there is no God, the Law of Karma has no basis and that the
Vedas were written by clowns. It adds " Enjoy life while you can, for once cremated, you will never
return to earth." There are still a lot more scriptures in Hinduism. I should say that there are more
than 1000 scriptures in Hinduism......

The concepts of utmost freedom of thoughts and actions is what attracts many to Hinduism. Hinduism
never forbids any one to question its fundamentals. On one side, in Hinduism, you may come across
people worshiping pests like rats, and still on other side you will come across concepts parallel
to Quantum Physics and Neil's Bohr Theory of nuclear structure and reactions. On one side Advaita
(There is only one) philosophy is discussed and promoted, still on other side Dvaita (Two, duality)
philosophy is discussed and promoted. Hinduism never ever banished any one, since he or she wrote
a wrong scripture or did not observe a particular ritual.

There was never a Salman Rushdie (author of Satanic Verses) in Hinduism and never will be there one.
Mahatma Gandhi wrote, even atheists can call themselves as Hindus. That is very true. In fact the
Charvaka philosophy or Nastika philosophy, (existed during the Vedic period) founded by Charvaka
rejected the existence of God and considered religion as an aberration. Voltaire in Essay on Tolerance
wrote: "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it."
Hinduism is the symbol of what Voltaire wrote.

The Gita never commands anyone what to do; Instead it discusses pros and cons of every action and
thought. Throughout Gita you will not come across any line starting or ending with Thou Shalt Not.

"Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti".
(There is only one truth, only men describe it in different ways).
- - -The Rig Veda - - -

Regarding idol worship there isn't really any person [except may be Jews], who does not believe in an idol,
image, or symbol.All religions have some concept of God with name and form, but Hindus alone have
the courage to admit that fact. How the Sikh indulge inthis practice, I have touched upon that in my
other posts(Guru's Jutti, holed jug, the stones which one of the Guru's used in Modi Khana...).

All religions are the result of the works of thousands of thinkers. Hinduism is a culture cultures
and is the mothers of all Indian religions. Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism took the best aspects
of Hinduism and made part of them. In Christianity, there were several housecleaning in its 2000
years of history. Hinduism on its part, never had any house cleaning in its history. Since Hinduism
never tossed anything away, in it you will see in it primitive religion as well as very advanced thoughts.

I agree that Hinduism has the good, the bad and also the ugly aspects in it like any other culture
or religion in the world. We have to boldly face facts and eradicate the bad and the ugly aspects,
to better the lives of millions of Hindus, for years to come.

The greatness of Hinduism can be summerized in few words. "Freedom of Thoughts and Actions."
That is what Hinduism stands for.

Thanks.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Bulleshah Ji!

Truth is not one because they print it in the Rig Veda or any other scripture. Studying scriptures or history is also not a way to experience truth.

Quote >>>I agree that Hinduism has the good, the bad and also the ugly aspects in it like any other culture
or religion in the world. We have to boldly face facts and eradicate the bad and the ugly aspects,
to better the lives of millions of Hindus, for years to come. <<<
Please do not waste a moment on others.

Quote >>>The greatness of Hinduism can be summerized in few words. "Freedom of Thoughts and Actions."
That is what Hinduism stands for. <<<

I am not sure if mind loves to give "Freedom of Thoughts and Actions" to anyone. Many already spread this illusion vastly that they authorize a Hindu to enjoy freedom of thought and actions.

The experts get entangled studying worldly religions who could not recognize truth. I admire those who have realized this and have transcended the actions suggested by the Vedas. The Sikh Gurus are such unique examples.


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
bulleshah said:
vijaydeepsingh,

HTML:
Had your Hindusim being OK,then Akal may not have sent Gurus.

Nanak never claimed He was sent by some God or 'Akal' to bring some covenant to earth. He always
maintained his ideas are merely a discovery of something that always existed and is for everyone
to discover. The Shri Guru Granth by the is the Guru's word not God's word. For Guru Nanak himself
was a derivative of the society and environment he was born in.


Bro it is clearly said there Dhur Ki Bani or Khasam Ki bani ie verse from pole or from lord or Husband of soul(it is lady love in sufis).

And there Nanak does not says but is addressed.He went to veni River and then in front of Akal.

Anyway our Guru is God and not the body of First Master.

Bani Guru and Guru is Bani ie verse.

And read Vachitar Natak,writer clearly sates that Panths before them are failure and includeing your demigods were a fialure as they gave thier name while Writer said that he will gove only Name of Akal,so we are Akalis.
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti".[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif](There is only one truth, only men describe it in different ways). - - - The Rig Veda - [/FONT]

Ap Apni Bodhi Hai Jeti Barnat Bhin Bhin Tuhin Teti

Akal is described by peopel based upon thier intellesct.

Ta Ko Kar Pahan Anumant Mahamorh Kachh Bhed Na Janat.

Those who behold Akal as stone are super fool not knowing any secret/truth.
[/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]- -[/FONT]


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The misguided ones who delight in the melodious chanting of the
Veda - without understanding the real purpose of the Vedas - think,
O Arjuna, as if there is nothing else in the Vedas except the rituals
for the sole purpose of obtaining heavenly enjoyment."
- - - 2.42 - The Geeta - - -[/FONT]

If you do you get the resukt while all is me(Akal in Krishna)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"To a Self-realized person the Vedas are as useful as a small reservoir of
water when the water of a huge lake becomes available."
- - - 2.46 - The Geeta - - -
[/FONT][/FONT]

Those who leave the views(conflicting of Vedas and Katebas became lover of Akal(Parbram).Both Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Nath Yogis but in later Yoga was there and not love.

[/FONT][/FONT]
Whatever Nank preached was already there. There were many others before Him who talked sense the verses
of whom find mention in the Guru Granth. Nanak was neither the first to talk sense nor the last.
Every thing he said and believed in is decidely Hindu.

Bro you want to say that Akal isd bounded by your Hindusim that nothing knowe can be sent by Akal outside that ideolgy.Did Akal made hindusim or Hinduism binds Akal.

In fact when,Adi Sanakr did new idelogical erevolution it was unprecendented.Swami Vevekananad also did many things never occuring before.So Guru Nanakdev Ji can not do that or God in him can not do that.

Perhaps you will say that cannons which Tipu Sulatan made by rockets were already there.

Sikh was given staus of Guru already there .

Das cahllaenges you to get a single verse from any of you so called hindu scriputres which says that,Guru gets punishment from Sikhs for not obeying the rule by book.

In fact you so called Hindu scriputres are actualy lived in life by Sikhs.They were made thoerotical made Guru made it practical.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Hinduism is not based on mythology.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]It is a myth created by Brithsers to not let faith go beyond India
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif] Its the other way round. Krishna did not invent Hinduism. He and his Gita[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]were a product of Hinduism. [/FONT]

Did Krishna or Holy Gita mention Hindusim even for one or term Hindu came there.Rather term Sishya or Sikh is there.
[/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]If you want to continue to believe that Nanak invented Sikhi go on. I have no problem[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]with that[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]yuo will have problem know with the fact that Akal created Gurmat when creation was made.[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]In Satiyuga Brahmin Avatar Baman.[/FONT]

In Treta Rama Kstriyan And ParsuRama Brahmin

In Dwapar Krsihna Vaishya(miilkman),Kashtriya(Five brothers) and Parsu Rama.

In Kaliyuga Four Varna togather as Khalsa as villian are mnay so it is multibody.(Sau Sakhi).

Sanatan Dharam is Sikhism and your hindusim is invention of Britishers.
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]But I will continue to say that whatever Nanak preached was already there. Nanak or no Nanak.[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The search for truth and the seeker always existed. Namdev and Kabir surely got it before Nanak. Nanaks Sikhi[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]was a culmination of the Bhakti movement that started in the 11th century.[/FONT]

It was reviaval of Dharam going dowen the drain due to influence of Kaliyuga like caste or idols etc.[/FONT]
[
html] God god god god ....God is Guru blah blah....[/html]

What is God if not the creation of the yearnigs and the secret desires of the people ??

"The Divine Thread started everything.
The knower of the Thread is a yogi, his Knowledge is
beyond the scope of the Vedas.
Pearls stringed together form an ornament. The Divine Thread holds together the Universe.
The Yogi wears this Thread when he becomes aware of his Divinity.
Established in highest state of Yoga, the yogi discards the external thread.
The wearer of the Thread of Knowledge is never unclean. The Thread exists within him.

Knowledge is the greatest purifier."
--- Brahma Upanishad ---

Yuo have misquoted it and das needs the exact verse number has das has whole volume of Vedanta.But again Brahm Sutra clearly sates that nothing occu without will of God and you misinterperting God ,which is in all form and of knowlegde shows that you are a Nastik and not belviers,

Yuo are respected and we know that one day yuor soul will merge back to Akal but yet your are not Sikh.Yes Hindu can be Nastik as thier so called religeon is secular.And so nothing can be coomin with them and Guru.
Baba Nanak say the same? So how does he and Sikhism become non-Hindu when he was saying
exactly the words of Hindu Upnishads about the the sacred thread ? It completely misses me....


Well boy where di Guru said that give the quoutes,first you mistinterpert Brahm Upnishad and now you just say Guru said that.

Guru said Behold Guru and Super Lord as same.and you said it blah Blah blah.Yuo did your own wrong.
Hinduism is the only religion in the world that doesn't ever boasts monopoly on salvation.
It is not a relgeon with god then how can it talk of salvation/Yuo are Nastik and you talk of salvation and it is an iroany.

By the way Salvation for you das does not understand but till yuo have desire for it,yuo will try for it,yuo wil not get it.Nowhere in Hinduism this way to get salvation is told.We are told to not to aske for kingdom nor salvtion but love to lotus feet of Akal.

We are told that whichever door salvation may occur to world ,let it occur.

In fact,
as per Hinduism, any one even an atheist can attain salvation. A Jew, Christian and Moslem can
attain salvation, irrespective of whether they read any Hindu scriptural book.
Give qoute3s in any of the purana or Veda where it is writtan about Muslim or Chraitian.

In BHavishya Purana,Rasol Akaram Sal Al SAhe Va Vassalm is termed as demon Muhmad.Guru temred him as Prophet in Jaffernammah.

Bhavishya Puran Pratisarg Parv Khand Four says,

Guru Nanak was son of Vaishya(Wrong),Bron at home of toll tax collector(Wrong),Made Ramanand as Guru(Wrong),Born in Panchal(Bareli,in UP),And was incarnation of Fifth Vasu Rudransh Pratush.
While Udasi behold him Avtar of Vishnu and we behold him beron of Baman,Rama and Krishna(Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

Yet you say both are same.It is shame on your knowledge.
Charvaka philosophy was founded by Charvaka. The most important book was Brihaspati Sutra.
I am stating things in past tense since I am not aware if copies of this book are available in India.
According to Charvaka, "Material world alone exists and our knowledge comes from sense perception".
This philosophy openly propagated that there is no God, the Law of Karma has no basis and that the
Vedas were written by clowns. It adds " Enjoy life while you can, for once cremated, you will never
return to earth." There are still a lot more scriptures in Hinduism. I should say that there are more
than 1000 scriptures in Hinduism......
The reason for accomadating all carp and terming it diversity in Hinduism,is like {censored} accomadte wrong people.Such idelogies and like that of Jainism and Budhism has made you defeated by God's belivers rahter Allah belivers.Das is happy that you support them and this will lead to yuor end as you support those who insult you God.
The concepts of utmost freedom of thoughts and actions is what attracts many to Hinduism.


Should das tell you fredom upto what extent.As God is in all so if female marries God then every male can have sex with her in Devdasi of Temple and visit Yadgeer Gutaa and temple near Hyderbad.Das went there to Temple to meditate and saw this sin.

accomodating those who term Sita as sister of Rama and paint nudes poster of godess and Bharat Matah and wew try to make you fundemtantilit and defend your faith and you try yo amke us weak.If Hindus ahve to end salvery of ages then have to come out of it.
Hinduism
never forbids any one to question its fundamentals. On one side, in Hinduism, you may come across
people worshiping pests like rats, and still on other side you will come across concepts parallel
to Quantum Physics and Neil's Bohr Theory of nuclear structure and reactions. On one side Advaita
(There is only one) philosophy is discussed and promoted, still on other side Dvaita (Two, duality)
philosophy is discussed and promoted. Hinduism never ever banished any one, since he or she wrote
a wrong scripture or did not observe a particular ritual.

why did Droncharya let Eklavya cut his thumb.

why was Shamukh Sudra was killed by Rama?

And why did Devi Sitah was left ourt by Rama

And why did Vishnu commited adultray with Tualsi.

Dasham Granth rectifies all the false hood related to acinet Heros not of Hindus but of universe.

If you are loose chaertor then ,it is not sothing to be proud of.Thats why easyly many of yous leave you.
There was never a Salman Rushdie (author of Satanic Verses) in Hinduism and never will be there one.
Thats why we have Maqbool Fida Hussain and Sahmat and people who live in the country eat there but are loyal to some other nation.Thats why temple are still under mosques.

Mahatma Gandhi wrote, even atheists can call themselves as Hindus.

So you folow that person also very good.This person who our Veer Sarvarkar Never liked nor Baba Sahib Keshav Baliram Hedgewar liked.
He was the one who still made pest reamin in India.

It is nothing new as Hindu is non God term of the nation or race and no God.

That is very true. In fact the
Charvaka philosophy or Nastika philosophy, (existed during the Vedic period) founded by Charvaka
rejected the existence of God and considered religion as an aberration. Voltaire in Essay on Tolerance
wrote: "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it."
Hinduism is the symbol of what Voltaire wrote.

Westerm culture is main culprit,to let Sanatan Dharma ie faith of Santan Akal does not reach nooks and corners of earth and this is the proof,Even term Sikhism and Hinduism were coinded by them and thier stooghes on the both side.

The Gita never commands anyone what to do; Instead it discusses pros and cons of every action and
thought. Throughout Gita you will not come across any line starting or ending with Thou Shalt Not.

"Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti".
(There is only one truth, only men describe it in different ways).
- - -The Rig Veda - - -

Read it again and that to after lreaning Sanskrit.It tell us to not to be doer and stay in Firth state(chaper 14).
Regarding idol worship there isn't really any person [except may be Jews], who does not believe in an idol,
image, or symbol.All religions have some concept of God with name and form, but Hindus alone have
the courage to admit that fact. How the Sikh indulge inthis practice, I have touched upon that in my
other posts(Guru's Jutti, holed jug, the stones which one of the Guru's used in Modi Khana...).

Das again says that if Hindu eats beef then das should not say that it is genral practice in Hindus and like eating beef we conder idolaltory.Hindu is term devote to nation so they worship mud but for us whole world is Dharti Matah ut nno Bharat Mata as main devote of Hindus.

Das again repeat that it is lie saying that our scripture forbids to sleep with sister but we admimt to do so.you go agaisnt your own scripturte(But for Narad Bhakit Sutra and Narad as per his nature makes Sin to act more so end to it comes fast).
All religions are the result of the works of thousands of thinkers. Hinduism is a culture cultures
and is the mothers of all Indian religions. Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism took the best aspects
Neith Hinduism nor jainsim and nor Budhism are religeon at all.

Das repeats the chaellgen to quote any of you rscripture which talks Hinduism as Religeon.Two Puranas have term Hindu in very differnt meaning.Kahan Singh Nabbha book We are not Hindu is also pro Sanatani ,if you have not read it so far.

Das can say that {censored} is best and best mother of pups and loyal.without support of argument and say lie many times and they became truth.Hitler said that and he was racial and so are Hindutva or hindusim people.
of Hinduism and made part of them. In Christianity, there were several housecleaning in its 2000
years of history. Hinduism on its part, never had any house cleaning in its history.

Atack of Guru in Anandpur Sahib,Act of Lakhpat Rai and 1984 and beforre that so many times your very own Jains and Budhist were killed by Pushymitra Sunga.Visit dalitstan.org and you will find scores of stroys of Sudra hole cast.



Since Hinduism
never tossed anything away, in it you will see in it primitive religion as well as very advanced thoughts.
The very same foller were deprived of basi humans right due to racial mentility leave aside outsiders.

So Namdev Himself termed them blind as both eys were cloded to insiders and outsiders but Muslim was one eyed as they respected at least thier own faith brethern.
I agree that Hinduism has the good, the bad and also the ugly aspects in it like any other culture
or religion in the world. We have to boldly face facts and eradicate the bad and the ugly aspects,
to better the lives of millions of Hindus, for years to come.
The way is to discard hindusim and became Sanatan Dharmi.

If can not be Gursikh ,then jooin Nath yoga,Advait Vedanta or say Rama Krishna mission,at least one God of all and let spritula unity by in you.
After beceoming Sikh if you kill das ,das is not unhappy but let you coming gneration not be Malechhas as your experimant will fail as due to limted racial and regeonhal menatility.
The greatness of Hinduism can be summerized in few words. "Freedom of Thoughts and Actions."
That is what Hinduism stands for.

Thanks.

Which sometime may leads to indiscipline and lack of unity and derfeat.
 
May 10, 2006
52
1
vijaydeepSingh,

HTML:
Which sometime may leads to indiscipline and lack of unity and derfeat

What you call indiscipline and defeat we call unity in diversity. We are one not coz' we all
think alike(that's the biggests problem) because we all argue all the time. We are united
because we are diverse. As to how true your argument that Islam accepts and respects
their own can be seen in the middle-east. They gora master could hammer the iraqi's because
a fellow musalman saudi provided military bases. And another musalmaan Kuwait. One race,
one mothr tongue, one God...bullshit. There is no such thing as unity as in one God.

Look at us castiest and racists and discrimators...Tell that gora cowboy to touch...say..the Tamil
and watch us go kick his B's so hard he will land right on the croun of Ma Liberty herself.
Unity in one God...my foot.

Our real problem is not that we have many Gods.
Our real problem is we are not inventing any more nowadays.

The claim that Sikhism is caste-free and that this sets it apart from Hinduism
(on the assumption that caste is intrinsic to Hinduism), is simply untrue. Every
Hindu knows that Sikhs have not ceased practising caste. The acknowledgement
of caste identities was presumably acceptable to the Gurus, for the Gurus themselves
married their own children according to traditional caste prescriptions. The anti-caste
thrust of the Gurus’ teachings must be seen as a doctrine which referred to spiritual
deliverance and a firm rejection of injustice or hurtful discrimination based on caste status.
What is not implied is a total obliteration of caste identity.

Sikhs marry with Hindus of the same caste, while they still avoid marriage with Sikhs of different
castes. Likewise, Sikh politics is largely divided along caste lines, e.g. the Akali movement is one
of Jat Sikhs, shunned by low-caste Sikhs (who are called Mazhabi Sikhs, that is, Sikhs by religion alone,
e.g. former Congress minister Buta Singh) and by the higher Khatri and Arora and Bedi castes
to which the Gurus belonged.

I have considered that much of modern Neo-Sikhism is driven by not not 'discrimination',
'genocide' or other nonsense but by the notion of the SUPREMACY of the sikhs - and that
supremacy being over the Hindus including the mazabi,Noormehlia, Nirankari, Sanatani, Nihang
who consider themselves Hindus and therefore it is the Hindus who must be continoulsy put down.

This is primarily driven by racism, a plague which aflicts all us Punjabis but in particular
the NRI Sikhs who often beleive the most appalling prejudices about Hindus and beleive
themselves to be a genetically, racially, hisotricaly and dharmicaly superior to the Hindus
and had once had even going so far as to compare DNA strands but later retracted.

Thanks.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
bulleshah said:
vijaydeepSingh,

HTML:
Which sometime may leads to indiscipline and lack of unity and derfeat

What you call indiscipline and defeat we call unity in diversity. We are one not coz' we all
think alike(that's the biggests problem) because we all argue all the time. We are united
because we are diverse.

Are you sure

See

1. Mosit ijn Nepal(Das was on duty there to win them back).

2.Naxalists
3.Pro and Anti reservations
4.North east Ahoms(Ulfa) and meities

and you say unity and diversity.

Das can tell yuo that Sikhs are much dvierse in themselves.

There can be idolaort among us.Byt we see God in each others and outisise and due to one God do unit to do something if faith is in danger.

Jeehad,Crusade and then we have Dharam Yudha concpet in us.

But same lack there in you and yuo se God first in youself.We are told to see God in all and notihng in ourself.
Das can give yuo examples of diversity when very own people did treachury.

1. Ambhiraj
2.Siakoti King
3. KIng of Kashmeer who was with ghaznai
4.Jaichand
5.Man Singh

And list goes on in presetn say
1.CPM
2. Congress
3.Even present Day BJP

And what about diversity that when das was going to Ayodhya during Hindu days in 1990 Lalu was telling Rama was god of Rajputs and Yadavas must follow Krishna.

They kept on belltieling each other

1.Anti Rama said

Rama gave death penality to younger Laxman and commited sucicde by sinkin himself in water.

2. Anti Krishan

A Kordhi Durvasa cursed him and He trereied to destroy metal but at ost reached hunter who killed Krishnas.

both the idots did not know that they were common for mna kind and not for races and each thingnhad hidden symbols.

May be they are role model concept.

Yuo talk too muc about weithng stone but such items are aracholgical eviandce of exsitance of Gurus,while many people may say Rama And Krishan are ore idelogical concept of best human.

Well at the time of Krishna when you were theuir yoiu would ahve oppesed Gita also saying that Krishna did not say new.At the time of Vedas you might have fought with Angira Rishi as At the time when Lord Rama wewre ging Divine knowldge to Bali.And Gita was not thtere.

As you do not have faith in God you may not know that Time is not absolute and we can trevel in time and perhaps in futre Rama and Krishna may again come and at that time you will Say that First Master said something amd Rama and Krishna did not say.

Rama had 14 arts,Krishna had 16 and Guru had all arts and so as Khalsa.So far you could not notice but your childern may join us.We were your past and we are your future.
As to how true your argument that Islam accepts and respects
their own can be seen in the middle-east. They gora master could hammer the iraqi's because
a fellow musalman saudi provided military bases. And another musalmaan Kuwait. One race,
one mothr tongue, one God...bullshit. There is no such thing as unity as in one God.

Perhaps you have not seen foregn mercenarnies and Fidaydeens in Kashmeer and by the way you will be surprised to know that idea of Hindu sucide scuad was givne by this bloody das vijaydeep Singh and that to for Shiv Sena.What happned?

a political gimmikary happened and nothing more then that and some work was done at orrisa just for show.not a single Hindu went to Pakistan or Bangladesh and those idolots keep on coming here and as if they are coming to thier Sasural(wife's home) as if After Tughlaks and Moghuls had taken hindu Devis so they must also do the same to tremple us.

Well Singh are there and as thier Dharma be it Hindu or be it Muslim who so ever is oppresed we do avenge and we do reagain femalers and reconvert them too.

We had Akshardham,Raghunath Temple,Amarnath,Sankat Mochan etc. but due To Sikhs yes there are fire works there also.With us we have Sanatan Dharmis but no Hindutva person.

If you want you can join us and send PM.

Race of das is differnt from Starr(Das is asian and Bindybains is not),Language(Language of das is Maithali) yet due to one God we are united.

Yuo have never felt such thing so you call it bull shit but if you be a part of religeon or community even in Isalam also yuo will find that unlike Hindus where one take help of non Hindu to defeat Hindu such tings do not occur(Das might have lived with Muslim as a part of duty).

And often Swami Vevekanand told that Hindus must have body like Islam.

Coming to Iraq,It is due to unity of Protestant world shown to USA that they win and Arabs have no chance.

Look at us castiest and racists and discrimators...Tell that gora cowboy to touch...say..the Tamil
and watch us go kick his B's so hard he will land right on the croun of Ma Liberty herself.
Unity in one God...my foot.


Das is sooory for your foot and may be it had your barin in it.Das lived abraod and often Muslims use to create troulbe with Gujratis and Punajbis Hindu girls(Das did worked with VHP along side own Sanatan Sikh circle).They did same thing with Tamil from Sri Lanka(Das lived in a family of Tamil Brahmins).But they were never united.

As they had thier temple differnt.

Duirng 2004 perhaps 21st July Al Mahjouron of Mualan Bakri did said that on trafalger sqaure he will openly ocnvert Hindus,Sikhs etc.

Hindus did promise to bring 10 Thousend but no turned up but Sikhs went there and with then some Turbaned one were with Tilak.They were those Hindus who use to Go To Gurudwara Sahib and they did get chance to serve Hindus.

Das can give yuo simlar example in Hyderbad that how Gurudwara prevented Penticostal Church to diivde and convert Lambadis but they are still Hindus due to link with other Hindus who also visit Gurudwara else thier Temples are differnt.

Das still rember that once therer were Riots and Kanjer caste fought with Muslims.Das went there to help them but Weaver Hindus say why to help Kanjers?

Put you foot in yuor mouth as life is noth which you simulate in pc but what happens ojnn earth
Our real problem is not that we have many Gods.
Our real problem is we are not inventing any more nowadays.

Here also you are wrong

Das can list you latest gods
1.ASutos Maharaj
2.Asaram
3Sudhanshu

and list goes on

Even when elder ideot like Ghandhis dies worshipped like god.and what about temple of JayaLaltia,Rajnikant and amtabh Baccham.

Holy Kuran has verse to those who do shirk(dualism of God)that do not do that s yuor forefather wewre mimsguided while real Gods does gives you Shifa or welafare.
The claim that Sikhism is caste-free and that this sets it apart from Hinduism
(on the assumption that caste is intrinsic to Hinduism), is simply untrue. Every
Hindu knows that Sikhs have not ceased practising caste.
Sikh is not a caste or racial term while Hindu itself is used as Caste as Hindu Jati.

In fact Pursh Sutra tells that all are from one caste ie one God and in Sanatan Dhamr if Gotra is not known then it is givbven as Kashyap as he is as per them father of Man kind.But not in Hindusim.

Sikhs who yuo say follwing caste are not Sikhs but Hindus does have caste meaning the term itself.

The acknowledgement
of caste identities was presumably acceptable to the Gurus, for the Gurus themselves
married their own children according to traditional caste prescriptions.

OK by the way did any of the Guru underwent Janeu Sanskar which madew them folw Caste.

DAs did know that Tenth Master
specifically encouraged to marry outside Gotra and Jait and Sunar Widow was married to a Khatri.

Are you aware that As per Bhai Bala Janam Sakhi first Master had another Muslim Rangher wife(Poly Gamy is allowed).And Sixth Master as per some did marrige Mata Kaula(Gurubilar Patshahi 6th).And in the Time of Sixth Master mnay Sikhs maried MUslim ladies after reverting them to Khalsa Panth.

Tenth Master behold us as child.He reverted Bahimi as Muslim in Gurmat and whole Shia Nihungs(Crocdile in farsi and a reptilian sucide scoud) under were revertted and Maha Singh was thier leader and they did maried within Sikhs.

When say ammrige was to be done outside the caste Hindus were realy good role models.

Giv ethier princess to Tughlaks and Moghuls and yet proclamined Kushwahas of Jaipur or Bhatti of Abhohars,And when Kala Pahran wanted to marry Muslim girl he had to be Muslim.

And even when Martha Kings married Muslim ladies thier sons were Muslims not a single Hindu.
The anti-caste
thrust of the Gurus’ teachings must be seen as a doctrine which referred to spiritual
deliverance and a firm rejection of injustice or hurtful discrimination based on caste status.
What is not implied is a total obliteration of caste identity.
This another ting to proetct raical hinduism.When Caste is not in Vedas or Vedanta then why should not Sikhs oppse that and end that.As Hindu itself is cate so it is your right for defending your life which is very short as Hindu caste.

When one bowl was made for Baptism,Hill Kings wanted a separte bowl as for higher caste,Guru denid them Baptism,Then we have legal case in Delhi when Upper caste refuse to share same bowl with lower caste,Guru demnied them and gave them some time to join so they wewre Sahij(Slow) Dhari(apoter) some became Khalsa and other reamied out.

In Purush Sutra symbol is that one body can have diverse qualties and one can be all rounder(Sarbloh Granth Jat Jat Rachna Bhai).So it was foirst time that Varna Sangathan or amalgamtion of diverse ethinc qaulties was to be done and was done by Guru(Das gave you refreance while you did not).

Das would request DR Khalsa Ji to read the whole verse taken from book by some Rishi Ji(of Kankhal) to oblitrate caste and took refreance of Work of Tenth Master(it is book Brahmin Dharam and Sikh Dharam by Swami Ram Tirth Dandi Sanyasi)
Sikhs marry with Hindus of the same caste, while they still avoid marriage with Sikhs of different
castes.

you talk non Sense

Family of Das is Hindu,

Father Bihari Teli,

Mother Hindu Punajbi Khatri

Bhabhi(sister in law) one is Russian,

another is Punajbi Brahmin.

Das is from family in miliarty bacxk ground and that for generation.

and when in Hindu also caste is not factor for leraned and educated so why you harp same for Sikhs.only thing is that some psudo pandit may revive casteism due to wrong interpetation of scriptures but in Gurmat,there is no scope as clear cut it is mentioned about noncaaste.

In fact das has marrige proposal from Hindu Brhmin girl from some officer in securty agency.Lady may become Sikh before marrige if at all das does it


Like mother monkey carrries dead infant so yuo want to carry caste and hense hinduism and racialism.

Say because USA kills so called innocnet Muslims so Muslim should wage war on world does not justify them.

So if yuo are wrong then you can not justify that Some so called Sikh do wrong so yuo are OK.
Likewise, Sikh politics is largely divided along caste lines, e.g. the Akali movement is one
of Jat Sikhs, shunned by low-caste Sikhs (who are called Mazhabi Sikhs, that is, Sikhs by religion alone,
e.g. former Congress minister Buta Singh) and by the higher Khatri and Arora and Bedi castes
to which the Gurus belonged.


Akalis have callimed to be A Punajbi party and havbe good lots of Hindus and Mulsims.

Anyway Mazhabi is term for those who convert from Islam to Gurmat and they folow true Mazhab(Rahit Nammah Bhai Daya Singh) and Hindus are without Mazhab so if they convert then they are new to Mazhab.

Yuo said that Guru belonged to caste,while non of thier so caleld Hindu ancestor had any book to support caste system strange.

Yes in Sikh comunity living tonear to Hindus or recent Hindus converted to bebfits of conversion then idologically such thiung may be find.Have yuo seen Caste in Sikhs of Pakistan or say Afghanistan off couse that is not as no hindu there to cruopt them.

Anyway yuo come to Bihar and das will show yuo Sikh community without Caste.In bDeccan also Sikh have surname like topchi,swar,tegbaz and no caste.

That is pure form of Khalsa and same people with such maryadas of Tkahts say Biharis or Hajuris in Punjab has nothing like that.So practicaly we have satyed off non Sense.
I have considered that much of modern Neo-Sikhism is driven by not not 'discrimination',
'genocide' or other nonsense but by the notion of the SUPREMACY of the sikhs - and that
supremacy being over the Hindus including the mazabi,Noormehlia, Nirankari, Sanatani, Nihang
who consider themselves Hindus and therefore it is the Hindus who must be continoulsy put down.

Das sees something inteelcula bancrucy when you say that Sanatani calim to be Hindu,Sanatan is God and Hindu is foregen term and nothing Swadeshi and if we follow Sanatan Dharasm then nothing foregen or compatriot left.

Go and say some Nihung that they are Hindu they will tell you.

In thier term Lord Jaganath is Lulla(Handless),Idolator is Anna(rather peolple you hate call them Ann Mata),And Bhairav Sikh of them only cut the nose of Devi in Temple near Kiratpur.


Sikh haqs to be lowest of low,and Foir you Narkdhairs and Nurmahliyas could be your father or brother but not of us,Best of lich to them and you ilogical ideas,

It is rather your inferoty complesx towards Sikhs that you find them talking of suprimacy while if you be braod minded you may find your self much higher.

Two years before,A Somali Muslim said das who was Sikh by that time,Yuo bloody Hindu Baniya.

Das said yes Das is blody Hindu Baniiya so what,as Akal made and what is the diffrent between himm and Somali Muslim.

Had das been told derogastory refrance as Muslim due to turban or said as {censored} das would have accepted that.

This is our inferioty and lowerness.

Yuo be at hight and let us live to lowest of low.

Let you have number and have wealth.

Rember one thing that in Mahabharata,Arjuna Chosed Krishna and we chose God for lowest.Like Duryodhana chose high status and prevert mind to try to fix hindusim in wrong place and result will be there same.
This is primarily driven by racism, a plague which aflicts all us Punjabis but in particular
the NRI Sikhs who often beleive the most appalling prejudices about Hindus and beleive
themselves to be a genetically, racially, hisotricaly and dharmicaly superior to the Hindus

Man das is not Punajabi and oppose punajbisim as Bad to Panth as hindusim or indianism.
And so far das got support of that.Das is Bihari yet Sikhs so far did not discrimnate him even onece Das trashed one jatt,who was follower of Asutos(another Bihari ).

Das here may agree to you that there are pseudo Sikhs but we are on our job to show them the way out.
and had once had even going so far as to compare DNA strands but later retracted.

Thanks.

If Das marries Brahmin girl,then Dna will be differnt then if he maaries Negro girl.

But if we combine genes of varous races then new combination may have more qultiy then to be in single race.

Best Example is Lord Krishna even married Doughter of Bear Jambwant called perhaps Satya Bhama,And Bheema married she demon Hidinmaba.

Das will osme day give you whoe verse of holy Veda that what exactly means by all people cal God by difernt names das has it but give it to you later.
 
Dec 8, 2005
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12
As far as superiority is concerned you must have met an casteist pseudo SIKH carrying on the legacy of his forefather and the society he lives in.

It was sick to see sikhs taking part in reservation rally from any side .

For a true sikh the motto is " EK has hum balak "

We are the children of one god any difference is highlighted to only encourage competetion . In the end at langar we all sit together to have mals togethers --the sikhs , hindus , christian muslims , Jatts , khatris , ramgarhias mazbi etc .

we are children of one god.

Sarvat tha bhalla.

hps62
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Bulleshah (mrsingh) Ji!

Mrsingh has signed your post. I presume a Sikh with the sir name Singh is enjoying his presence on this Forum.
Sikhs have the name Singh because their father is also Singh.

I can understand your bestowing a privilege upon Hindus. Perhaps your mother is a Hindu.

What I do not understand is why you are not so happy with your father. Your father is also the Wisdom of God?


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Bro biological father and mother of das both are nither Singh nor Kaur but Dharam Pitah is Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur.

Anyway in past budhist also had term Singh,who use to run away when Nalanda was looted by turks.rest were killed or converted.
 

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