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Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

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granth, guru, lava, lavan, lawan, marriage vows, sahib
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 16:25 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

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What I quoted is from a speech by Sir Sunder Singh majhithiah in the Viceroys Council in 1909 in which he mentioned the ANAND KARAJ of Bhai kamaliah which was the subject of an offical complaint to Emperor Akbar by the Hindus. Guru Amardass ji sent Bhai jetha Ji (later Guru ramdass ji) as the best person to explain things to the Emperor. The Emperor Akbar had visited Guru Amardass jis Darbar at Goindwal also.

2. Its a FACT that the Present Laavan on page 773 are writen by GURU RAMDASS JI becasue it says so. Suhi mahalla 4th is Written by Guru Arjun Ji. So we have to go by the evidence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. BUT whether the Lavan as in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were in fcat used during the marriages of the Gurus/their families is not clear. What is Clear si that GURU NANAK JI alos WOULNT HAVE married according to the VEDIC Tradition..when we have irrefutable evidence that Guru Ji REFUSED POINT BLANK to wear the Janeau at such a YOUNG AGE...there is no possibility of Guru Ji agreeing to a FIRE CEREMONY !! SO what ceremony actually took palce..is couched in ambiguity..we dont know for sure.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/6681-lava-in-guru-granth-sahib.html

3. The Present Day ANAND KARAJ with Lavaan of Suhi mah 4 begins with the Baba Dyal Singh / Baba Darbara Singh nirankaris Mission in 1870's. There is NO EARLIER EVIDENCE.

4. Its also a Fact that SIKHISM..from Day ONE has been JUST a drop of FRESH WATER inside the SALTY OCEAN of HINDUISM !! and is still in the same situation TODAY. Worse..our History, our holy books, our Holy Gurdwaras etc etc were all under the control of NON-SIKHS..while Sikh Heads were being sold at RS 80 a piece...these non-sikhs got the opportunity to grab control of all sikh history and REWRITE it as they pleased. Its ONLY lately that the DROP of Fresh water is trying to get itself recognised as different...and the Ocean is determined to drown it...as has ben for the past 500 years ...since the DAY Guru nanak Ji denied the JENEAU !! Since He denied the janeau..He must have also DENIED the rest of the VEDIC ceremonies...this is evidence by DEDUCTION.



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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 16:33 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

There are over 100 "shabds/banis" in Bhai Bala Janamsakhi that are NOT INCLUDED IN the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. These are claimed to be Guru nanak kirt and use the same name NANAK...as the Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is an Example of KACHI BANI...Satgur Bina hor kach bani..kehndeh kacheh, sundeh kacheh, kacheh aakh vikhannee: that Guru Amardass ji alludes to in ANAND SAHIB. Such FAKE BANI was being produced to CHALLENGE Guru nanak Jis chosen successors (Gurgadee holders like Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardass Ji, Guru ramdass Ji, Guru Arjun ji) by the ILLEGETIMATE CLAIMANTS..or PRETENDERS ott he Gurgadee - the BLOOD sons and relatives of the GURUS that were REJECTED.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681

BTW my good friend Bhai baggrriahn Ji in Chandigarh has an ORIGINAL hand written copy of the Bala Janasakhi. On my next viist I intend to go have a look at it...as I didnt have time this year.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 17:24 PM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Respected gyani ji
It is not necessary that Guru ajun dev ji would include all the bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or is it?? I dont think there's hundred percent surity of bhai bala's janam sakhi to be fake. I have the janam sakhi, should i quote the laavan written in the janam sakhi, although the janam sakhi is not in very good condition as its very old. one of the contradictions about this janam sakhi is that it contains many shabads mentioned to be written by guru nanak dev ji where as in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji these are mentioned to be written by other gurus.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681

Now what i think is that the other gurus that followed sri guru nanak dev ji were also the same. as we say k ikko he jot da prakash c. Oh sade lai beshak alag alag roop c par oh ik he jot c!!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 19:25 PM
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

   
Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib
Forwarded by SPN mentor Gyani Jarnail Singh ji Arshi
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 20:26 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan View Post
Respected gyani ji
It is not necessary that Guru ajun dev ji would include all the bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or is it?? I dont think there's hundred percent surity of bhai bala's janam sakhi to be fake. I have the janam sakhi, should i quote the laavan written in the janam sakhi, although the janam sakhi is not in very good condition as its very old. one of the contradictions about this janam sakhi is that it contains many shabads mentioned to be written by guru nanak dev ji where as in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji these are mentioned to be written by other gurus.

Now what i think is that the other gurus that followed sri guru nanak dev ji were also the same. as we say k ikko he jot da prakash c. Oh sade lai beshak alag alag roop c par oh ik he jot c!!
Veer Ji,
IT IS NECESSARY THAT WE NOW PLACE ALL (100%) of OUR TRUST/FAITH/SHARDHA in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as prepared by GURU ARJUN JI and RE-PREPARED as Final Rescencion by GURU GOBIND SINGH JI and bestowed upon the GURGADEE of Guru nanak Ji sahib in 1708. It is a Blasphemy to even consider one sentence out of place as far as the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is concerned. This is LAW now in PUNJAB under recently passed amendments - a FIR can be registered and Punjab Police will take action on such finger pointers.
WHATEVER "bani/gurbani/whatever" LEFT OUTSIDE the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is NOT GURU-KIRT...not even those banis now in our Nitnem, supposedly penned by Guru Gobind Singh ji but since these are NOT INSIDE THE Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..they are NOT OUR GURU. ONLY Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our One and SOLE GURU. BEYOND QUESTIONING...BEYOND DOUBTS. PERIOD.
This is NOT my perosnal position..its the position of the Guru Khalsa Panth.
And this is also the Terms of service of SPN. Violation of those terms is serious.

2. Lots of Bhagat kabir jis bani is available OUTSIDE of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..we dont accord that portion any "VALUE" (as in GURBANI)
3. Lots of Bhagat ravidass jis bani is also OUTSIDE Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...recently some people made a GRANTH out of that. WE SIKHS place no "value" on that either. We BOW to only Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

As I said I have access to an ORIGINAL hand written Mnauscript of the Bala Janam sakhi ( at present in Punjab and out of my contact NOW. but avilable for research when i do viist India )..BUT I do have in my Library a TREATISE of most of the janamsakhi published by PU. It also lists almost 100 shabads supposedly by Guru nanak ji but NOT included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. A SIKH will NOT consider those as "Gurbani" - under any circumstances. GURU ARJUN JI had good reasons to EXCLUDE them.

Veer Ji..we have lots of Non-sikhs, non-punjabis on this Forum..so if we confine Punjabi words to a MINIMUM that helps. Sure we cna understand the lingo..but for them its a major difficulty. Please keep as much ENGLISH as possible.

Regards
jarnail Singh
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 29-Jan-2011, 21:00 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Veer Ji,
On the question of a "shabad" that is chosen by Guru Arjun Ji for inlcuison in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and this fact is reaffirmed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji....then THAT Particular shabad IS the AUTHENTIC VERSION - Confirmed by TWO GURU SAHIBS - in WRITING.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681

IF a similar shabad / exact same shabad is found OUTSIDE the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...thne this is what we do:

1. The SHABAD in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is GURBANI and our GURU.
2. The exact same shabad that is outside the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but found elsewhere..is a COPY.(UTARA)
3. A "similar" shabad found OUTSIDE Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a FAULTY COPY/PLAGIRISATION/FAKE.
Could be an attempt to confuse sikhs...the KACHI BANI.
4. ANY writing found OUTSIDE the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji carrying the NANAK CHHAAP is FAKE.( under
point 3 above )..at best
its a COPY - UTARA. The GURU-GURBANI is always ONLY the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
5. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was prepared under direct superviison of GURU SAHIB JI. All outisde books,
historical accounts, books, etc etc...not prepared under that CATEGORY..so any
banis/shabads included should be taken under advisement !! For example even
TODAY there are thousands of books...even WEB SITES ( SPN included)..which may
have GURBANI shabads included....these books web sites etc CANNOT be considered
AUTHENTIC/GURBANI/GURU as on the same level as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.!!! Simply becasue
these are all prepared by ordinary humans...while the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was prepared by the
GURU SAHIBS. As an EXAMPLE: I as a writer of a Book on "Katha of Japji Sahib"
could MISS out an
ENTIRE PAUREE of Japji Sahib...or Leave out half of it (by mistake)..can the Japji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6681
Sahib in My book be considered as authentic as the Japji Sahib found in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ??
OR by mistake I may inlcude a few chhands form JAAP SAHIB...and then can people
about 500 years down the line say..OH Jarnail Singh's Katha on japji Sahib has a
different Japji Sahib than the one in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ???? That is what you are saying about
Bhai bala's Janamsakhi and its shabdas. On the KASWATTEE..touchstone of
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..the shabads in Janamsakhi FAIL the LITMUS TEST.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 31-Jan-2011, 00:14 AM
Nirmaljot Baidwan's Avatar Nirmaljot Baidwan Nirmaljot Baidwan is offline
 
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

@ gyani jarnail singh

My friend we dont have baani of bhai Gurdas in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , is that kachi baani????
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 31-Jan-2011, 06:02 AM
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan View Post
Respected gyani ji
It is not necessary that Guru ajun dev ji would include all the bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or is it?? I dont think there's hundred percent surity of bhai bala's janam sakhi to be fake. I have the janam sakhi, should i quote the laavan written in the janam sakhi, although the janam sakhi is not in very good condition as its very old. one of the contradictions about this janam sakhi is that it contains many shabads mentioned to be written by guru nanak dev ji where as in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji these are mentioned to be written by other gurus.

Now what i think is that the other gurus that followed sri guru nanak dev ji were also the same. as we say k ikko he jot da prakash c. Oh sade lai beshak alag alag roop c par oh ik he jot c!!
Nirmaljot ji,
Forgive me but I don't fully understand what you are saying here?

Are you saying that Gurbani can be doubted or second guessed but other texts such as janamsakhis must not be doubted?

When the Guru's are the same jyot, does it make sense that one Guru would then overwrite shabads written by another? What is the point of having the numbering lock in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji if the Guru's were going to change the shabads for their own?

Does it make more sense to verify texts against Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or the other way round? I would say the former as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our only Guru and everything else comes second.

Jasleen Kaur.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 31-Jan-2011, 09:08 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Lava in Guru Granth Sahib

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan View Post
@ gyani jarnail singh

My friend we dont have baani of bhai Gurdas in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , is that kachi baani????
Nirmaljyot jI,

IS the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji our One and ONLY GURU ? or is Bhai Gurdass Ji also "GURU" ?
GURBANI can only be what the GURU says/speaks...and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not speak/say the Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars/Kabits/Swaiyahs as well as lots of other compositions.

2. The SRM does however give us the privilege and HONOUR to perform Kirtan of Bhai Gurdass Jis vaars/kabits/Swaiyahs in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This proviso also applies to Bhai Nand Lal Goya Jis compositions. Other "compositions" may also be "presented" on Gurdwara Stages - dhadee vaars, kavitas, poems, lekhs, Academic Papers etc etc fort eh ebnefit of the Sangat.

3. Kachi Bani as a description is now widely applied to the "TWO LINER JINGLES type of TV advertisments that various so called SANT/BABAS sing during their "Religious Diwans". These are written by human beings. Example would be...."Ucha Dar babeh nanak Da...uchah dar ababeh nanak da.....AA giaya baba Vaid Rogian da....Haath jorr ke darshan kardeh ne..etc etc types sung with groups of CHAMTA BANGING youths behind the Waddeh baba Ji on stage with a Vaja....and after each PAUSE..the Waddeh baba Ji will stop and TELL/RELATE TALL TALES/FAIRY TALES of the even BIGGER "WADDEH BABA JI" that went before his time...(GURU NANAK JI SAHIB/and the Nine Gurus after Him ARE NOT what is meant by Waddeh Baba Ji....that "respectful" term is for the DERA HEADS that have died..like Ishar singh attar singh wariam singh etc etc...BABA NANAK is kept OUT of such kirtna darbars. Such Babas almost NEVER singh GURBANI SHABADS form Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or will just sing a line or two and leave the shabad UNFINISHED and proceed to their waddeh babajis stories...and Jingles. IF you listen carefully the DEVI BHAJANS sung sound almost the same as these two liner jingles. IN the Hindu situation thats perfectly all right becasue they DONT HAVE GURBANI to sing..so they rely on man made kavitas and songs..BUT when SIKHS disregard the THOUSANDS of Shabads in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..and give preference to such bhajan types of kavitas..then its sad. This types of songs are much easier to Memorise !! Hnece the reaosn why these Half Baked babas prefer them..no effort needed compared to SHUDH RAAG GURBANI.
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