Kill the history, religion will die on its own

ISDhillon · #19 (**permalink**) 19-Dec-2006, 22:22 PM

Hello Akshadeep Ji,

I think youre confusing tradition and history as a form of research rather than sikhism itself, sikhism is unique in that we dont have to learn from our history because if we did then that would mean our guru is not hear today, we know this is not the case did the flesh gurus turn to history to look for answers?, they did not they adapted and changed according to the reality of the times i believe the istitution of guru-granth guru-panth can function from our enlightrended bibek status as the guru would have liked, that is why i said the international sikh confederation is a good idea because it presents this function in todays reality.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/14538-kill-history-religion-will-die-its.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538

indy

Akashdeep Singh · #20 (**permalink**) 20-Dec-2006, 00:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISDhillon

Hello Akshadeep Ji,

I think youre confusing tradition and history as a form of research rather than sikhism itself, sikhism is unique in that we dont have to learn from our history because if we did then that would mean our guru is not hear today, we know this is not the case did the flesh gurus turn to history to look for answers?, they did not they adapted and changed according to the reality of the times i believe the istitution of guru-granth guru-panth can function from our enlightrended bibek status as the guru would have liked, that is why i said the international sikh confederation is a good idea because it presents this function in todays reality.

indy

Sat Shri Akaal I S Dhillon ji,

We seem to be talking on different issues.

The topic of this thread was on the wrong writings regarding Sikh history in the NCERT/CBSE history text books. My point was that knowing and preserving the truth related to Sikh history is important.

If it is not preserved the Sikh religion will suffer. Why I say that? - because I think to interpret Sikh philosophy and its roots its very important to know the correct history. One such example I gave was that to understand Gurbani in right context we have to know the correct history of the time the hymns in Gurbani were written. I have already given the example in my previous reply why Sikh history is important and inseparable from Sikh religion.

I have seen many examples from my debates with people who are interpretting Gurbani in wrong way just because they do not know in what conditions those hymns were written and in what context.

Feel free to re-question if I am still not clear in what I am saying or if you still do not agree.

Chardi Kala,
-Akashdeep

vijaydeep Singh · #21 (**permalink**) 20-Dec-2006, 15:52 PM

Gurfateh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akashdeep Singh

Dear Vijaydeep,

I did not understand your comment fully. Can you please elaborate?

-Akashdeep

Well when Congress rules.they change text books content regarding Gurmat as if thier guys like Jahor Siddque or Irfan Habib try to paint Gurmat as Gurmat is a sort of socio economic reaction to oppresvie Mughal fedual system.(communts go by a chani of premitive communisiom-salvery-feudal sysetm-captalism-ulitamte communisiom).

while Hindutva idiots sorry hindutva Brthren, try to paint Gurmat more as sort of Hindu reaction of Muslim oppression.

both ways are not prefect.Sikhism has some unique and unprcedented traits.

dalsingh · #22 (**permalink**) 29-Dec-2006, 04:51 AM

Gyani Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538

You posted the following:

"History is the ROOTS..on which the "tree" feeds..kill the root and the tree dies...Punjabi Saying..Jarrahn vich tel denna..apply OIL to the roots ( to kill the tree) is applicable to such acts as highlighted in the original post.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538
1. That is why the Enemies of Sikhism - beginnign with Sri Chand son of Guru nanak Ji began a RIVAL STREAM of thought/philosophy to GURMATT of Guru nanak Ji...and his successors wrote "False gurbani" under the name of "Nanak" to waylay Sikhs and spread Kachee Bani to fool Sikhs..Guru Amardss Ji ahd to warn about this in Anand sahib..Satgur Bina hor kachee bani..kehndeh kache sundeh kache kachee aakh sunani..
2. The second act of these enemies was to ADULTERATE and spread FALSE history baout Sikhs and Gurus...the Bhai bala Janamsakhi is a case in point. Later on books like Gurbilas Patshi chhevin, dasvin, bachittra natak granth etc etc were written to divert Sikhs from Genuine Gurmatt and History.
3. Even Sikh writers were fooled..Rattn Singh Bhangu took "Bhang"..so he writes that Guru nanak ji also took BHANG.... Kavi Santokh Singh of Sooraj parksah was a devi bhagat ..so he makes Guru gobind Singh ji a Devi-Bhagat
4. This attack on our history now continues with the Daylight ROBBERY of ALL our "history" stored in the Sikh reference Library in 1984..and all this is still MISSING - in the World's LARGEST DEMOCRACY ??..
5. Further attacks come in barefaced misconstruction, outright insults to our Gurus and examples like...Banda singh bahadur being converted to banda Bairagi ( no such person ever existed)

Only those Nations who Love and Preserve their HISTORY survive...look to the JEWs for a lesson..the KEY is EDUCATION ..
Gyani jarnail Singh"

I fully agree with your views but was wondering how Sikhs can write their history without refering to such material. I think it is high time Sikhs write a definitive account of their history for the younger generation.

The problem lays with the fact that Sikhs/Khalsa have never been very good at recording their own history, usually because they were too busy making history against all odds. But how do we produce a proper account, seeing as almost all surviving accounts seem to have been adulterated or biased by their writers as you pointed out?

sikh78910 · #23 (**permalink**) 30-Dec-2006, 05:55 AM

akashdeep singh ji, can i just firstly thank you from the bottom of my heart for the sewa you are doing in unveiling these evil acts of tampering to our sacred history. if you could please please send me some internet links and indian government sites so i could help in this it would be very much appreciated. i am young but i belive that my generation needs representation to spread awareness as well as sikhi and the true way. thankyou ji hope to hear from you...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538
sat sri akaal

humble sikh.

Guglani · #24 (**permalink**) 30-Dec-2006, 12:41 PM

Best way to write history is available on site Main Page - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
Please do narrate your experience about visiting or about becoming a sikhiwikian.
I hope pepole with you interst profile shall enjoy.

G.S.guglani

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

Gyani Ji,

You posted the following:

"History is the ROOTS..on which the "tree" feeds..kill the root and the tree dies...Punjabi Saying..Jarrahn vich tel denna..apply OIL to the roots ( to kill the tree) is applicable to such acts as highlighted in the original post.
1. That is why the Enemies of Sikhism - beginnign with Sri Chand son of Guru nanak Ji began a RIVAL STREAM of thought/philosophy to GURMATT of Guru nanak Ji...and his successors wrote "False gurbani" under the name of "Nanak" to waylay Sikhs and spread Kachee Bani to fool Sikhs..Guru Amardss Ji ahd to warn about this in Anand sahib..Satgur Bina hor kachee bani..kehndeh kache sundeh kache kachee aakh sunani..
2. The second act of these enemies was to ADULTERATE and spread FALSE history baout Sikhs and Gurus...the Bhai bala Janamsakhi is a case in point. Later on books like Gurbilas Patshi chhevin, dasvin, bachittra natak granth etc etc were written to divert Sikhs from Genuine Gurmatt and History.
3. Even Sikh writers were fooled..Rattn Singh Bhangu took "Bhang"..so he writes that Guru nanak ji also took BHANG.... Kavi Santokh Singh of Sooraj parksah was a devi bhagat ..so he makes Guru gobind Singh ji a Devi-Bhagat
4. This attack on our history now continues with the Daylight ROBBERY of ALL our "history" stored in the Sikh reference Library in 1984..and all this is still MISSING - in the World's LARGEST DEMOCRACY ??..
5. Further attacks come in barefaced misconstruction, outright insults to our Gurus and examples like...Banda singh bahadur being converted to banda Bairagi ( no such person ever existed)

Only those Nations who Love and Preserve their HISTORY survive...look to the JEWs for a lesson..the KEY is EDUCATION ..
Gyani jarnail Singh"

I fully agree with your views but was wondering how Sikhs can write their history without refering to such material. I think it is high time Sikhs write a definitive account of their history for the younger generation.

The problem lays with the fact that Sikhs/Khalsa have never been very good at recording their own history, usually because they were too busy making history against all odds. But how do we produce a proper account, seeing as almost all surviving accounts seem to have been adulterated or biased by their writers as you pointed out?

Akashdeep Singh · #25 (**permalink**) 03-Jan-2007, 13:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikh78910

akashdeep singh ji, can i just firstly thank you from the bottom of my heart for the sewa you are doing in unveiling these evil acts of tampering to our sacred history. if you could please please send me some internet links and indian government sites so i could help in this it would be very much appreciated. i am young but i belive that my generation needs representation to spread awareness as well as sikhi and the true way. thankyou ji hope to hear from you...
sat sri akaal

humble sikh.

Khalsa Ji,

Thanks for appreciation. I am delighted to know that you are taking interested in Sikh history. Unfortunately, I do not have any big list of internet sites. I would recommend you to keep reading newspapers on the internet to keep an eye what is going on in Punjab and other parts of India. Punjab related news can read from The Tribune, Chandigarh, India in english. I am in touch with the history textbooks of NCERT and CBSE boards of India as I have grouwn up reading those textbooks and some of my younger cousins are also studying those books.

Additionally, I would recommend the following sites: -

Send me a private message if you have any questions or suggestions and I will try to help you out with the little brain that I have got.

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep Singh

sikh78910 · #26 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2007, 23:28 PM

hi akashdeep ji,'
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538
sorry for the late reply! but thankyou very much, and i will pm u if i need to know more! Thanks again and keep up the good work!

Kind regards

Sikh

badmash · #27 (**permalink**) 11-Feb-2007, 07:07 AM

Very nice posts and very good subject.
I think the reality is mixed but sad also.

Regarding Sikh intelligentsia, if you will, we have always lacked a critical core mass of intellectuals to sustain a truly long lived, professional maintenance of Sikhism. That has to do with history, economics, wars, partition, the ill will of India, etc. Hopefully that is changing.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538

We are majorly challenged by losing Punjabi language among younger generations. Punjabi is also one of the roots of the proverbial tree.

To give an example of our mixed lot today, take Sikh Manmohan Singh, PM of India. He visits France while france puts down the turban and he cannot seemingly help to bring any light into the 1984 issues regarding Sikh historical literature.

1984 says much about sikhs and their future in India. The response of Sikh dominated security forces and the government against the Sikh population also speaks for its own reprehensible and cannabilistic depravity.

No doubt sikhism will survive. But like every other religion much altered. Altered in appearance of its advocates, their speech, their outlook, their toughness (or lack of it) and their intellectualism.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14538

If indeed Sikh scriptures have been maliciously destroyed by the Indian government, then the hell with the rotten dung that is modern India, and
sad that our forefathers died for that pathetic country and its people.

sincerely