Caste and Banda Singh Bahadur

dalsingh · #1 (**permalink**) 05-Sep-2006, 14:47 PM

This is from a manuscript completed in 1734 by Mohammad Shafi Warid.

After the death and defeat of Wazir Khan (who oversaw the execution of the two younger sahibzaaday) and the sack of Sirhind. Sirhind became the seat of that evil sect, they sent forces to the surrounding tracts and destroyed the families of those who had not bent their heads in obedience to them from older times.

Whether Muslim or Hindu, everyone who was not enrolled amongst his followers was put to the sword by those cruel men. Since the cruelty of that man (Banda) has been mentioned by this truthful pen, it is meet some lines are written about his habits and manners...After the slaying of Wazir Khan he laid down that of Hindu or Muslims, whoever became enrolled amongst his Sikhs, should be of one body and take their meal together so that the distinction in honour between the lowly and well-born was entirely removed and all achieved mutual unison, acting together. A sweeper of spittle sat with a raja of great status, and they felt no hostility to each other. He (Banda) thus initiated numerous innovations and strange practices and put them to effect..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/14195-caste-and-banda-singh-bahadur.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

WJKK
WJKF

learner · #2 (**permalink**) 11-Oct-2006, 02:34 AM

Thank you DalSingh

dalsingh · #3 (**permalink**) 11-Oct-2006, 03:48 AM

My pleasure Learner,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

It was nice for me to find that despite lots of noise to the contrary from Sikhs today, our ancestors DID disregard caste for a time at least.

Randip Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 11-Oct-2006, 14:06 PM

Hi Dal Singh,

Thanks for your inciteful and always welcome contributions.

I take it you are quoting from "Sikh History From Persian Sources"?

It is an excellent read, and gives a good viewpoint from people who were indifferent to Sikhs and had nothing to gain or lose in what they were saying.

It is also true that under Bandha, many Mazbhai's (Churah's and Chamaars) were elevated to positions of authority and govenership. Alas, they were all executed...........the make of who held lands and power in Punjab may have been very different if Bandha had survived.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

Later on Kalal's, Jatt's and Tarkhan's became dominant and held Sikh power......under Ranjit Singh.

dalsingh · #5 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2006, 02:17 AM

Thanks Randip.

For me one of the most embarrassing element of being Sikh is living with the blatant hypocrisy of caste. I get tired of explaining it to people who ask.

I note how some people are now trying to twist facts to make their caste an "ethnic" origin, so desperate they are to cling onto it. I huess having a label that denotes your families ancestral trade isn't anything bad but the hatred by some to others is disgusting.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

I wonder what the next few generations in the U.K. are going to make of it? I also notice how some of the younger lot are even more caste obsessed than their parents! I had one young guy ask me "so what caste are you" 2 minutes into a conversation in Gravesend.........
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

But we remain in chardhi kala, our people will learn...sooner or later.....I just hope I can see it before my time here is over...

Randip Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2006, 17:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

Thanks Randip.

For me one of the most embarrassing element of being Sikh is living with the blatant hypocrisy of caste. I get tired of explaining it to people who ask.

Yes I knw exactly what you mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

I note how some people are now trying to twist facts to make their caste an "ethnic" origin, so desperate they are to cling onto it. I huess having a label that denotes your families ancestral trade isn't anything bad but the hatred by some to others is disgusting..

I have noticed particularly Jatts, Tarkhans and Kalal's claiming high caste origins. Other castes alike Labana's, Bhatra's, Chamar's nd Churaah's etc are getting in on the act. All these are low castes...........the reason why they joined Sikhism was social upliftement.

People who espouse such views are usually ignorant of history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

I wonder what the next few generations in the U.K. are going to make of it? I also notice how some of the younger lot are even more caste obsessed than their parents! I had one young guy ask me "so what caste are you" 2 minutes into a conversation in Gravesend.........

Next few generation's don't give a dam. They are not bothered....and what you find is especially the Mona's are not bothered......now what does that say about Sikhism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

But we remain in chardhi kala, our people will learn...sooner or later.....I just hope I can see it before my time here is over...

True :)

dalsingh · #7 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2006, 20:16 PM

"Next few generation's don't give a dam. They are not bothered....and what you find is especially the Mona's are not bothered......now what does that say about Sikhism?"

I think for a Sikh male at least, having read your history and the fundamentals of the faith of your ancestors is a big, rich, rewarding and inspiring experience, whatever your background or position - unless you are seriously brainwashed by western society which seems increasingly to be the case these days.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

You never know Randip, later generations may feel a spiritual gap in their lives and I'm pretty confident that when they research their roots they will be moved intensely.

To know your ancestors, who generally came from the simplist of backgrounds, helped develop and defend a beautiful philosophy like Sikhism against all odds is something I feel all can be proud of (not in the negative fashion of course). Yes their are some awkward questions when we research our roots openly, but nothing that we can't survive.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14195

It is the job of the Sikh intelligensia to produce and present their history in a manner befitting these modern times. Progress has been made but we need to go ALOT further. If God wills it, it will happen. When our scholars match the quality of publications produced by McLeod and others of his ilk in terms of language, and be open and truthful about negative aspects of our history we will be well on our way.

Don't be so harsh on monay, some of the ones I know (all over 26 years of age) are deeply knowledgable of their roots and have a genuine love for it, even if they are kutcha billay (i.e. lax on rahit).

Randip Singh · #8 (**permalink**) 12-Oct-2006, 22:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalsingh

"Next few generation's don't give a dam. They are not bothered....and what you find is especially the Mona's are not bothered......now what does that say about Sikhism?"

I think for a Sikh male at least, having read your history and the fundamentals of the faith of your ancestors is a big, rich, rewarding and inspiring experience, whatever your background or position - unless you are seriously brainwashed by western society which seems increasingly to be the case these days.

You never know Randip, later generations may feel a spiritual gap in their lives and I'm pretty confident that when they research their roots they will be moved intensely.

To know your ancestors, who generally came from the simplist of backgrounds, helped develop and defend a beautiful philosophy like Sikhism against all odds is something I feel all can be proud of (not in the negative fashion of course). Yes their are some awkward questions when we research our roots openly, but nothing that we can't survive.

It is the job of the Sikh intelligensia to produce and present their history in a manner befitting these modern times. Progress has been made but we need to go ALOT further. If God wills it, it will happen. When our scholars match the quality of publications produced by McLeod and others of his ilk in terms of language, and be open and truthful about negative aspects of our history we will be well on our way.

Don't be so harsh on monay, some of the ones I know (all over 26 years of age) are deeply knowledgable of their roots and have a genuine love for it, even if they are kutcha billay (i.e. lax on rahit).

I didn't mean to put down monay....quite the opposite......the most knowlegable Sikhs I know are Monay ............and some of the most ignorant have turbans and beards........usually at GnnSJ :p

dalsingh · #9 (**permalink**) 13-Oct-2006, 01:01 AM

GnnSJ

Is this that place on Soho Road in Birmingham?