Sikhism and Hinduism

At times, you have heard people differentiating between Sikhism and Hinduism. I have listened this from different dharam pracharks. Is it "True". I believe it is "Not".
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Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

Source of Sikhism is Hindusism, so we cannot separate them. It is like nail and flash. You will be surprsied that "Waheguru" word was never pronounce by any of the 10 Gurus. This is mentioned by Bhai Gurdaas in his vaars. Also in Waheguru word, va comes from Vishnu, Ha from Hari, Ga from Gobind and Ra from Ram. Do you know that Krishna name comes 10000 times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Rama name comes 2600 times and waheguru word comes for 13 times only.

I am not criticising anyone but we have to look at facts and our history. Read Dassam Granth (written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji). So, please do not get away with the so called dharam pracharks.

 
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At times, you have heard people differentiating between Sikhism and Hinduism. I have listened this from different dharam pracharks. Is it "True". I believe it is "Not".

Source of Sikhism is Hindusism, so we cannot separate them. It is like nail and flash. You will be surprsied that "Waheguru" word was never pronounce by any of the 10 Gurus. This is mentioned by Bhai Gurdaas in his vaars. Also in Waheguru word, va comes from Vishnu, Ha from Hari, Ga from Gobind and Ra from Ram. Do you know that Krishna name comes 10000 times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Rama name comes 2600 times and waheguru word comes for 13 times only.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

I am not criticising anyone but we have to look at facts and our history. Read Dassam Granth (written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji). So, please do not get away with the so called dharam pracharks.

Dear Brother


SSAKAL

The relation between these two religion is more complex than elucidited by you.

you are right in your own way.

But I must tell you my perceeption of the whole picture.

I regards Punjabi hindus as mother of Sikhism , Mughal muslims as the father and British christians as the God father of Sikhs.

The trouble is that the Mother hindu did give birth to this Brave warrior Son of hers but then it panicked about its testosterones when it started to become a man.

It is the non warrior and cowardly decesion's of mother which has seen so many Sikhs migrating to its God father land of UK.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

The christian way of life appeals to a Sikh more than her mother womb of pseudo security.

The day the Indian civilization shall allow its son to become a man we shall see the return of her son and we shall belong to the same family as we were before.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

with love to all

Nanak nam chadi kala
tere bana sarbat tha bhalla

love

hps62

Dear Khalsa Ji,

If you study the ultimate destination of all the Indian religions you will find that it is almost the same. It is true of Hindu religion and is so for Sikh religion. This does not make the two same.

Essentially religion is path way to spirituality. The Hinduism is a path, Sikhism is also a path. Though both religions are justified in their own premise, yet the two paths are different and hence the two religions are different. I elaborate it below.

(i) Hindu religion is based on Varnashram i.e. four castes (Bhrahmins, Kashatriyas, Vasyas and Shudras) and four stages in life (Brahamcharya, Grahastha, Sanyasa and Vanprastha) The whole religion and practices are designed based on it.
Sikh religion does not accept this concept.

(ii) Hindu religion does not consider all humans as born equal, women are equated with Shudras. Where as Sikh religion does not support such discrimination.

(iii) Hindu religion consider Sanskrit as divine language which Gods understand. Sikh religion does not consider any language as divine.

(iv) Hindu religion supports worship of idols, Sikh religion demands worship of Nirakaar.

(v) Sikh religion demands that its followers directly worship the Absolute 'The Sat' where as Hindu religion supports worship of Gods and Godesses and trinity which by its own scripture is born and have a life span (Bhagvatam gives the age of present Brahma and also tells when this Bramha will be dissolved).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

(vi) Sikh religion is democratic and corporate in nature, where each devotee has direct access to 'The Sat', where as in Hindu religion the prayers have to be routed through the Brahman priest. To prevent from Sikhs getting into this practice Guru Sahib has abolished Priesthood.

(vii) Hindu relion says that God will descend on earth to distroy evil. Sikh religion says that the individual and the Panth has to fight its own worldly battles. Guru Sahibs have lived the life to demonstrate this to Sikhs and have give sword to us to defend our rights.

(viii) Hindu religion belives in Miracles, where as Sikh Gurus refused to do so.

I can give many such differences, but to keep the post to resonable size I stop here.

Both the religions are correct in there own premise and the period during which they evolved, but the two are not the same.

With love and respect for all.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980
Amarpal Singh

Dear Amarpal Ji,

A per you Hinduism and Sikhism are two different paths and hence the two religions are different. It is not true. Read below words of Guru Gobind Singh ji

Ram katha jug jug atal / Sab koi bhakhat net Suragbas Raghuver kara / Sagri puri samet Jo en Katha sune aur gaave / Dukh pap tah nikat na aave ~ Guru Gobind Singh
(The story of Ram is immortal and everyone should read it. Ram went to heaven along with the whole city. Whoever listens to or sings His story, will be free of sin and sorrow.)

* Vedahun vidit dharma pracharyun / Gohat kalamka vishva nivaryun Sakal jagat mein Khalsa Panth gaajey / Jagey dharm Hindu sakal bhand bhajey ~ Guru Gobind Singh
(May I preach the Vedas to the whole mankind / May I remove the blot of cow-slaughter from the whole world / May the Khalsa Panth reign supreme / Long live Hinduism and falsehood perish).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

What do you say about this?

Read my answers below to your justifications:

(i) Hindu religion is based on Varnashram i.e. four castes (Bhrahmins, Kashatriyas, Vasyas and Shudras) and four stages in life (Brahamcharya, Grahastha, Sanyasa and Vanprastha) The whole religion and practices are designed based on it. Sikh religion does not accept this concept.

You as a sikh do not accept it but still practice it. You never marry your sister/brother/son/daughter to a schedule caste unless and untill you are sc. Matrimonials ads in papers/web suggests that. Am I right?

(ii) Hindu religion does not consider all humans as born equal, women are equated with Shudras. Where as Sikh religion does not support such discrimination.

Those days are gone but there are still hindu and sikh families who celebrate boys birth and not girls. In my opinion girls are equal to boys. How many Lady Granthis have you seen so far?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

(iii) Hindu religion consider Sanskrit as divine language which Gods understand. Sikh religion does not consider any language as divine.

Most of the words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth are in Sanskrit e.g. par braham parmeshwar, jagdish, nirankar etc. Jap, Jaap, sukhmani, kirtan, rahras are all sanskrit words. How many times namah ward comes in jaap sahib.

(iv) Hindu religion supports worship of idols, Sikh religion demands worship of Nirakaar.

correct, you cannot get nirankar without a guru and in hindu religion idols are medium.

(v) Sikh religion demands that its followers directly worship the Absolute 'The Sat' where as Hindu religion supports worship of Gods and Godesses and trinity which by its own scripture is born and have a life span (Bhagvatam gives the age of present Brahma and also tells when this Bramha will be dissolved).

As I said before, you need a guru to reach to nirankaar

(vi) Sikh religion is democratic and corporate in nature, where each devotee has direct access to 'The Sat', where as in Hindu religion the prayers have to be routed through the Brahman priest. To prevent from Sikhs getting into this practice Guru Sahib has abolished Priesthood.

All the ardaas is done by granthi. All paths are performed by granthi. So, what is granthi singh? nothing but a priest or pandit.

(vii) Hindu relion says that God will descend on earth to distroy evil. Sikh religion says that the individual and the Panth has to fight its own worldly battles. Guru Sahibs have lived the life to demonstrate this to Sikhs and have give sword to us to defend our rights.

All ten gurus are divine powers and have come to earth to destry evil. read dasam granth

(viii) Hindu religion belives in Miracles, where as Sikh Gurus refused to do so.

You are using miracles in a wrong way, there are lot of examples in sikh history where miracles were shown.

Namashkar
Amit Verma

there are truck load of similariyies between jews ,christians,and muslims.they all beleive in prophet theory ,heaven hell .but they all are different.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980
so what's a big deal if sikhs say that they are different from hindu's.sikhism is from sanatan dharam of india and if anybody say that we are not from it then he is lying.

Dear Friend welcome here !

To start with I would say Sikh and hindu are brothers and so is the sikh to other religions

SOURCE OF BOTH SIKHISM AND HINDUISM IS SAME AKALPURAKH/PAARBRAMM
BUT HINUSIM CANNOT BE SOURCE OF ANYTHING WHETHER IT IS BHUDISM OR SIKHISM JUST AS MATAPHOR ROSE CANT BE SOURCE OF LOTUS EVEN THOUGH BOTH ARE PLANTS

And just to mention that this discussion has been done over and again that Yes WORD RAM HAS BEEN USED SEVERAL TIMES but Ram is one of the popular word to refer god and not Mortal RAM CHANDER JI

GOD has to called by name due to our limitaion and Ram was the coomon phrase used in the times when everybody was hindu around

Ran chander has been specifically mentioned in Granth sahib in Bani of 9 th gur where


Ram gayo ravan gayo ja kau bahu parvar,
kaho Nanak thir kuch nahin supne jiyon sansar’


I think you are missing something here

Instead you will be surprised to know that it has been used many times by DASAM GURU IN DASAM GRANTH the Granth you are advising to read


Also it has been mentioned in Guru granth sahib ANG/PAGE 1402 although not written by one of the ten guru ji but Sikh dont diffrentiate bani on basis of writer

SHABD IS GURU OF SIKH and not any Individual at present .


I Want to MENTION HERE SAID ALL THIS SIKH TOTALY RESPECT RAM CHANDER JI AS THE ISHT OF HINDU BROTHERS



ABOUT DASAM GRANTH

IT IS DIVIDED INTO TWO PARTS ON BASIS OF WRITING

ONE PART IS BANI : JAAP SAHIB , AKAL USTAT AND MORE
OTHER PART IS DISCRPTION OF GRATHS AND PREVALENT BELIEFS OF HINDUISM OF THE TIME FOR DETAILED INFORMATIOM OF SIKH ABOUT THE PREVALENT HISTORY OF RELIGION : IT INCLUDES CHOOBEES AVATAAR AND MORE



DASAM GURU JI MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE IS DEVOTEE OF HINDU GODS HERE IS EXAMPLE

sÍYXw ]

Sv;aaeya:

kivqw dI iek iksm[

A type of poetry.

pWie ghy jb qy qumry qb qy koaU AWK qry nhIN AwnÎo ]

Paan’ae gahae jabb t.e T.umrae t.abb t.ae kouoo aan’kh t.arae naheen’ aanyo

j`d dw quhwfy crnw dw Awsrw ilAw hY, mYN q`d qoN iksy hor dw Awsrw nhI q`ikAw[

Since I have taken Your refuge, I never looked to the protection of anyone else.

rwm rhIm purwn kurwn Anyk khYN mq eyk n mwnÎo ]

Raam Raheem Puraan Kuraan anaek kahaen’ mat.t. aek naa maanyo

rwm Avqwr jI, hzrq muh`md swihb, ATwrW purwn (ihMdU Drm grMQ), Aqy kurwn SrI&
(muslmwnI Drm grMQ), Awpxy DrmW bwry bhuq kuJ dsdy hn, Br vwihgurU jI, mYnUM iek
quhwfw Brosw hI hY[

Avtar Rama, Prophet Mohammad, eighteen Puranas (Books of the Hindu faith),
Kuran (Qouran – The Holy Book of Muslims), tell a lot about their faiths, but I
have depended only on You God.

isMimRiq swsqR byd sBY bhu Byd khYN hm eyk n jwnÎo ]

Sin:mr;ite Sastr; Bed sabhaae bahu bhaed kahaaen’ hamm aek naa jaanyo

isMimRiq (27), Swsqr (6), Aqy vyd (4), ieh swry ihMdU Drm grMQ, vwihgurU jI, quhwfy
imlwp dy bhuq Byd dsdy hn, Br mYN isr& quhwfy au~qy hI inrBr irhw hW[

All the books of the Hindu faith tell so many secrets of the methods of union with
You, but I simply kept steady in my faith only on You.

sRI Aispwn ik®pw qumrI kir mY n khÎo sB qoih bKwnÎo ]

Sr;ee Asipaan kr;ipaa T.umree Karre maae naa kahyo sabh T.ohe bakhaaneou

Aispwn (ikrpwn, SsqrDwrI: vwihgurU) jIau, quhwfw ieh j`s kIqw quhwfI bKiSS hI hY, mYN
Awp quhwfy gux nhI gwey, ieh qusIN Awpy hI mYQoN khwieAw hY[

The Sword-Bearer: God, my praising You is due to Your blessing. On my own I
cannot praise You, only You make me do so!




JATINDER SINGH

Amit veer,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8980

Rehraas sahib says:

Mai naa ganeshey pritham manaoo
kishan bishan kab hu na dhiyaoo
Kaan Suney pehchaan na tinso
liv laagi mori pag inso...

More importantly,
Manas ki jaat sabey eke pehchanbo

Regards, Arvind.

Gurfateh

Brother Amit Ji,

Spreem Jai Shri Ram,

As it often happens with Hindu brtheren as it happened in past with Das this misconceptiojn that bith are same.

It is not correct that Wahiguru is not in Guru Granth Sahib JI.It is in Bhatt Swayes.
Wahiguru Wahiguru Wahi Jio.It is about 12 times.And Bhatt themselves were part of Guru Panth.All Bani is not from ten bodies of Guru but verbal manifestaion or Sabad Guru and Bhatts and Guru spoke what Akal spoke by them.

Again you need to read Dasham Granth carefully as it is highy anti hindu scriputre.Triya Charitars are full of making mockey of Shiva or Ram worshipper Hindus,who are told to be commiting adultary in name of demigods or deceptions.

And Tenth Master so many time used Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh in Dasham Granth and you say that he did not use the word.

Wa is for Vasudev is one who is living in all.
Ha is Hari,the sustainer
Ga for Gobind ie sustainer of Go or indris or sense
Ra for Ram ie absorbed in all.

Rammya is another word used.

waht you behold as demigod are acutlay atttribute of True God Akal and your Vedas,Vedanata and even purana give testomanoy to that.

There are mnay Muslim converts and at present mnay non Indian as they were since the time of Guru(Sipleeds in Arebia since First Master or Lamas in lesser Tibbet),they were never Hindu or ethnic indian.

how can Ethinic indianism a sort of nationalism eqaute itself with faith or religeon.

In fact we are real Sanatan Dharma and hinduism is an outshoot from us and will be soon absorbed back in us.

Quote:

Ram katha jug jug atal / Sab koi bhakhat net Suragbas Raghuver kara / Sagri puri samet Jo en Katha sune aur gaave / Dukh pap tah nikat na aave ~ Guru Gobind Singh (The story of Ram is immortal and everyone should read it. Ram went to heaven along with the whole city. Whoever listens to or sings His story, will be free of sin and sorrow.)

you know what does it means.

People say that story of Rama is eternal for ages but Rama as left to other world(what an irany).

and you missed the next verse just after this we read daily.

Pahi Gahe..
As i Got your refuge(oh God),there after no one came under my eyes.Rama,Rahem,Purana,Kurana they say many views but I belive not in one.Samrit,Sashtra,Vedas say many secert but i do not know(behold then true) any.
Lord Sabre Emblem after your mercy doing,i do not say anything bbut all describe you.

Leaving all doors/ways went to your door.Come to your feet and keep respect oh sustainer of self as I am your slave.

Das did not write exact Braj wording as it may hurt Hindu sentiments as Father of Das also was hurt as he is a Hindu.(Das was before reverting to True faith of Gurmat).

Quote:

* Vedahun vidit dharma pracharyun / Gohat kalamka vishva nivaryun Sakal jagat mein Khalsa Panth gaajey / Jagey dharm Hindu sakal bhand bhajey ~ Guru Gobind Singh (May I preach the Vedas to the whole mankind / May I remove the blot of cow-slaughter from the whole world / May the Khalsa Panth reign supreme / Long live Hinduism and falsehood perish).

This is from ugradanti and you will surprise to kknow that first tow line are not there.Rather it says that Vedas and Kuranas are already elminated.

Then line is as follow

Sagal Jagat Mein Panth Khalsa Gaje,Jage Dharam hindun Sagal Dhundh Bhaje

In all world let way of Khalsa roar,Faith be awken,Hindus all mist be broken/run away.

Same verse of Ugradanti calls for breacking of Hindu Temples also or Devals or Devlaya and calls claerly Khalsa as Third way.So read it in full.



(

Quote:

i) Hindu religion is based on Varnashram i.e. four castes (Bhrahmins, Kashatriyas, Vasyas and Shudras) and four stages in life (Brahamcharya, Grahastha, Sanyasa and Vanprastha) The whole religion and practices are designed based on it. Sikh religion does not accept this concept. You as a sikh do not accept it but still practice it. You never marry your sister/brother/son/daughter to a schedule caste unless and untill you are sc. Matrimonials ads in papers/web suggests that. Am I right?

brother the thing you need to know is that Varnas are not casate but profession and even Manu Samriti si anti race or Caste.

But Hindu itslef is Caste.and due to pagan influnece some of Sikhs may still cling to it.But faith oppses it.Say if some Hindu say commits adultary then this may not means that say Vedas endorese it.racialism is like adultray for faith.

(

Quote:

ii) Hindu religion does not consider all humans as born equal, women are equated with Shudras. Where as Sikh religion does not support such discrimination. Those days are gone but there are still hindu and sikh families who celebrate boys birth and not girls. In my opinion girls are equal to boys. How many Lady Granthis have you seen so far?

That does not means that faith endroese that.in fact we have good lots of Sants also in gurmat who are female.that could be you lack of knwoelge about faith.if you want you can be provided with lists of Sants in Sant Samaj and Sanatan Sikhs who are female.

We do not support Sati(even in Triya Charitar of Pingal Devi in Dasham Granth) and Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.But you need to know that Madri ie mother of Nakul and Sahdev did commit same.Goswami tulsidas says that female are worthy to beating in Ram Charitar Manas(Das reads as animal like feamale).

and wahy ladies who mensurate are allowed in Temples,what is wrong in that?why are they not allowed to burn dead body or say stay while pyre in burnt.In fact non of the scripture of Sanatan Dharma endore it?

Quote:

(iii) Hindu religion consider Sanskrit as divine language which Gods understand. Sikh religion does not consider any language as divine. Most of the words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth are in Sanskrit e.g. par braham parmeshwar, jagdish, nirankar etc. Jap, Jaap, Sukhmani, kirtan, rahras are all sanskrit words. How many times namah ward comes in jaap sahib.

do you know how many time word Allah,Raheem or Qareem comes?

If Sanskrit is beheld deity tingue then why Ram Charitar Manas was writan in Awadhi?Way Nath yoga and Tantirc texts could be in Ampbhransha?

if we use Sanskrit it needs to be Guruah Grahthah but Saheeb is Arebic.

Dashamah Granthah and not Dasham Granth Saheeb.

Quote:

(iv) Hindu religion supports worship of idols, Sikh religion demands worship of Nirakaar. correct, you cannot get nirankar without a guru and in hindu religion idols are medium.

thats is the mani hindu mentialty for which das left this artificial thing.


Nothing is impossible and saying that without Guru we can not get Nirnkar is totaly false thing brother.
how?

Wel our Guru is Nirnakar by self and that salvage us and not any living Guru since begening.Idols are alloed in our Nirmalas or Udasen Akharaas and some of our own bow to scriputre.

But be it idol of Guru or Avtar or scriputre but bowing to it and worshipping it may not lead to salvation but will of Akal can let us have it.Idol increses ego and may divide community say on caste lines.So it is more on social thing and still more on spritual level.
till you say that you need to worship idol for salvation or do anything for result you will be reborn.Read Nishkam Karma Yoga in Bhagwat Gita and state of abouve Three Gunas in 14th Chapeter of the same.We as Sikh above all that.Yuo can be like us.

Quote:

(v) Sikh religion demands that its followers directly worship the Absolute 'The Sat' where as Hindu religion supports worship of Gods and Godesses and trinity which by its own scripture is born and have a life span (Bhagvatam gives the age of present Brahma and also tells when this Bramha will be dissolved). As I said before, you need a guru to reach to nirankaar

Yuo said incorrect

Our Guru is Nirnkar only never we had any Human Guru but always Sabad Guru(it never happned in Hindus).

Quote:

(vi) Sikh religion is democratic and corporate in nature, where each devotee has direct access to 'The Sat', where as in Hindu religion the prayers have to be routed through the Brahman priest. To prevent from Sikhs getting into this practice Guru Sahib has abolished Priesthood. All the ardaas is done by granthi. All paths are performed by granthi. So, what is granthi singh? nothing but a priest or pandit.

Agani wrong


Granthi can be from Brahmin or Negrro ancestors,Can be from Valmiki or English background but Pandit generaly has to be Brahmin and often not allowed for non Brahmin to carry out task.

Any Sikh can do Ardas or Path and as is not Granth but did you said Sikh can not do but in temple das was never alloeed to sit in front of idol to whom only Pandit gave offering.Path,Ardas,Kirtan,Katha all can be done by any Sikh.Better visit Gurudwara and improve your knowldge.

But do you know that in Jaganath Puri,a non Indian convert to hinduism is still not alloed to enter levae aside cary out worship.In Darbar Sahib,we have convert from Austrliya Chris Mony Singh doing Kirtan among many other foregeners.
It is not you fult but lack of knowlgde.

Quote:

(vii) Hindu relion says that God will descend on earth to distroy evil. Sikh religion says that the individual and the Panth has to fight its own worldly battles. Guru Sahibs have lived the life to demonstrate this to Sikhs and have give sword to us to defend our rights. All ten gurus are divine powers and have come to earth to destry evil. read dasam granth

Have you read it correcly?

Guru says that if anyone call him(Tenth Master) as God will fall into the lake of hell.Behold him and his previous Nine form as slave of God.We are ourselv as Guru Panth behlod as God on earth and not ot wait for incarnation.

Yuo seem to have forgot Mool Mantra of us which states God as Ajuni or never born.And all the parts of Dasham Granth are full of it.Ugradanti yuo said for Hindu relgeons relation with Panth Khalsa.

That which is most contversial states

Let the worship of all who are born and died/will die be destroyed.It is paryer which calls for breacking of mist call hindus and you only quoted it above without reading it all.

Quote:

(viii) Hindu religion belives in Miracles, where as Sikh Gurus refused to do so. You are using miracles in a wrong way, there are lot of examples in sikh history where miracles were shown. Namashkar

Attributing Miracles to humans or demigods is Bad,Akal our God can do miracles,which can be explined by scince but in Panth miracles are more encouraged by Hindus or Muslims but Sikhs give claer picture.

At last das requests you to be like us for sometime and see the differance between you and us.Das was like you say more then 20 years but after comiung to Panth finds the heavan and hell differnace.Till he was Hindu,he was never Sanatan Dharmi but after coming to Panth Das is True Sanatan Dharmi.