Do Animals have a Soul? Why do many Sikhs eat Meat?

Why do people say "killing animals for food" is bad karma..you will end up ina bad joon...etc etc...really ??
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/37900-do-animals-have-soul-why-do.html
And so lots of Simran sessions...go on endlessly (muktee from ava gaunn..freedom form joons..etc etc)..lots of Dhadrianwallahs bang huge groups of Chamtas and Chhainnas...lots of sukhmani sahib paaths...akhand paaths in figures such as 501..1001..etc etc..havans..chaliisaas....etc etc..yatrs to hemkunt..hazoor sahib..amritsar...all for MUKTEE...from bad Karma..Joons..
But Guru Arjun ji is telling us...
Raaj na chahon..MUKTEE na Chahon....PREET CHARAN KAMLAREH !! Page 534
ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900
ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੫੩੪
Which is which ?? Muktee or NOT ?? what do we really wnat ?? what does the GURU tell us to WISH FOR ?? Is the Guru instructing us..Hey Dont kill that chicken !! ( or you will get Bad karma..get reborn in a chicken joon..and wont get muktee !!) Or is the Guru telling us soemthing entirley different..BUT we refuse to take off that old pair of green/blue/orange/bhagwa specs..and contineu to see ornage/bhagwa/green muktee..salvation..daan..punns..paaps etc etc... After all the main reason behind all this "so kion murgee mareh" thing is about paap..animal soul...blah blah...and how to escape that paap..bad joon....avoid narak and attain surag..BUT then again Gurbani tells us >>Gursikhs DONT DESIRE surag/narak etc..etc..so whats the deal ??are we trying to FIT the PENTAGON shaped Gurmatt into the same old 'round"..square...triangle ??? IT just WONT FIT JIOS....a Pentagon is a Pentagon.....random thoughts...

 
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__________________
We hear with our ears but we listen with our minds.
Hearing the sound of a mantra is one thing - listening to it is another !

Let us ask some basic things even though much is covered in the other thread.

Organizationally who are pushing for ways different from Gurbani? We know very well that these are Babey, sub-sets of Sikhs who are then glorified for following as though they some how become superior.

Tactics,

• One Dehra with Sikh persona at the head, at the banks of a river in Punjabi ( River west of Sutluj, I forget the name) ?
  • Same Dehra kicked out Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prakash on premises
  • So suddenly people not eating meat and accepting insult of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have achieved higher status in Sikhism
    • Totally obnoxious
  • The followers are very funny and logic is pretty trash too
    • This is the "no-Egg" crowd who will eat mushrooms, yeast products, and perhaps many bugs ground into the flour and Restaurant curries thoroughly enjoyed
• Another Dehra with Sikh persona at the head preaches great Humanity while denigrating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
  • I think their name starts with "Ni" and ends with "ari", I forget the complete name
  • Suddenly their followers start feeling superior as though Sikhism is not Humanistic
• Then there is Dehra of the "True Merchandise" who attracts in the name of Humanism various perversions while trying most of the time to denigrate Sikh gurus
  • I believe it is near some city in Haryana that starts with "S" and ends with "sa", I forget the name

From a Sikhism perspective the fundamental question is if any such aberrations make some one better relative to others?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900

• Example: Someone not eating meat is somehow spiritually or otherwise superior or higher than the one eating meat?
  • I would like to see one and we will be able to find many more examples of meat eaters with same or better qualities.

Just as we consume to live the others eventually consume us to live. This is fundamental in creation.fundamental. Given that humans have developed ways to increase the choices of what they can eat does not make any difference what one may eat. It can taste bad to some, it may look bad to some, but that is a choice humans have.

"Lions" eat meat,



When the lions die they will be eaten by the vultures, hyenas, worms, and the earth and the grass and the plants.

Al such debates and tangential cults are simply part of taking Sikhism back centuries through partitioning people with "vehms/doubts" and "Bhulekhas/trickery" and misquoting of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The end game is to destro Sikhism and make it part of its origins which I believe relates to a religion which starts with "Hi" and ends with "u", I forget the name .

Shame on Sikhs following such destroyers of Sikhism and shame on such deceiving people with Sikh persona trying to destroy Sikhism.

Sat Sri Akal.

We have most of us forgotten the importance of Our Saints and Sages and Guru teachings.
Its not about what others do or not do.
Its how we - we- can merge with the divine.

To merge with the divine first and foremost is
Compassion

Not only for Humans animals but also for inert things

Everything every atom of creation has a soul.

I have seen this time and time again.

Its when the inner Temple of God within us we start awakening to
out God head within.

This is what the Sages teach.

Its not for us to judge if another person eats meat or does not eat meat.

They all have their own path to lead!

What does our inner conscience tell us.
How do we awake our inner voice.

The voice of God.

Only by grace of a Guru or By Meditation / Samadhi.



Even vegetables and food grains have souls.

Amarjitji,

If you have found peace in this, than I am not one to say that is wrong, however, as a follower of Sai Baba, how do you reconcile your faith in Sai Baba and Sikhi?, bearing in mind you are in some ways paying homage to two masters.

As for souls, I believe in a world where the cycle of life keeps rolling, I have actually since sunday decided not to eat processed food anymore, however, just as a banana is part of Creation, and eating one gives me much pleasure in its simplicity, so does beef and pork, however, what I am also avoiding is fancy food, I like my meat simple, with some bread, no sauces, no spices, maybe a bit of garlic, to me the key is respect for what you eat, and respect for the way it has arrived at your table
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900

I leave you with a joke

A missionary was walking in Africa when he heard the ominous sound of a lion behind him. "Oh Lord," prayed the missionary, "Grant in Thy goodness that the lion walking behind me is a good Christian lion." And then, in the silence that followed, the missionary heard the lion praying too: "Oh Lord," he prayed, "We thank Thee for the food which we are about to receive."

Amarjit veer ji... your below comments. Can you please elaborate on " in our Gurbani its clearly mentioned that we evolve from Animals into a Human"? Are you implying that the soul is physical entity which when killed it will be destroyed? Where in gurbani does it say that there was animals then came the humans?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900

//please dont feel this is a attack, I am trying to learn and discover much as you are//

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One point we must remember is in our Gurbani its clearly mentioned that we evolve from Animals into a Human.
If we have evolved from an Animal into a Human then the same soul also
existed in our previous incarnation as an animal.

listen to a few kathas of Prof Dhunda Ji..on you-tube....
he does the correct katha of Gurbani...
In one he proveshow we TRANSFORM into "ANIMALS" daily..many many times...KARTOOT PASU KI..Manas JAAT ( we LOOK HUMAN..but inside of us we have so many Animals !!)
The Elephant is Kaami....and the HUMAN who LUSTS fater every woman he sees like the MAST ELEPHANT CRAZY with lust...now isnt that KARTOOT Pasu ki (elep[hant)..BUT we still remain HUMAN..our SOUL is HUMAN..BUT our Kartoot are ANIMAL...and GUIRBANI says THIS !!
How about LOBH....like the DOG...or one who is ADDICTED to his TONGUE/TASTE....Gurbani gives example fo FISH..who commits suicide due to this addiction...how about the CROW...the VISHTA living Microbes..Bacteria...GURBANI is full fo examples of our ANIMAL JOONS....
But we still wear the OLD REJECTED spectacles of vedic "half truths"..and go on talking about kutta joot and gai joon..or saap dee joon..blah blah blah..AFTER WE DIE...GURSIKHO..YOu transform into the SNAKE the moment you LOCK yoru "Safe deposit box"...your accounts..yopur Jewels !!! You DONT have to DIE to become a snake and sit on that wealth...ha ha...LOOK with OPEN EYES..USE the GYAAN KHARRAGH to cut yoru LIES..beleifs..wrong notions of after death/swarag/narak etc which NO BODY has ever seen or coem back....READ what Gurbani has to say about COMING BACK....its all a load of Buffalo Bull GOHA !!

Ambarsariah Ji..well said.
The whole "AGENDA" is to destroy GURMATT....it began in 1474 with the attempt to put the "string" around Guru nanak jis Neck..( it starts with a Ja...and ends with eU.." i forget !!)...and Guru Nanak ji at age REJECTED the string..syaing whats the use of a string that gets dirty, can be replaced..is separative and disruptive to humanity..why not give me a permanenet THREAD made of daya sach..santokh Compassion truth contentment...OF Course the wily "Thread putter" ( B and ends with N..a. .k. a starts with P and ends with T) didnt have such a THREAD....so he left humilaited and revngeful..plotting to teach the balak-Nanak a lesson...the Vendetta continues..550 years ON !!

Amarjit Bhamrah Ji..
we SIKHS have THE GURU ( we dont need "a" guru as you wrote)..and The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Complete in ALL RESPECTS while avoiding all human guru failings...!!! we dont need "sages" to tell us anything..THE GURU Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us everything..we need to know...anyone else is welcome to all the sages and vedics and pandits etc he wants...

While on the subject of animals.... I absolutely love animals and always have since I can remember (always reading about animals,watching documentaries, gardening etc) and have wealth of knowledge about animal welfare. I researched for about two years before I got my parrot (very intelligent things).

I always eat free range meat, eggs etc... along with lot and lots of vegetables. Meat is acidic so it has to be eaten with a balanced diet.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900

One thing I don't like is how animals are treated for meat consumption, that's why I buy free range and cook it myself. If I was to give up meat, it would be purely because of how some animals are farmed.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37900

With the farming methods in the 20th century (use of pesticides, fertilisers) has drastically impacted wild life so you are indirectly killing animals even when eating vegetables (unless you eat just organic). It really does hurt me to see how forests are being chopped down to feed the human greed!