Idol Worship?

Kamala · #1 (**permalink**) 23-Dec-2011, 19:50 PM

Umm please do not get offended about the following:

Do you think bowing down in the Gurdwara to the Guru ji is Idol worship? I mean lets face it... we all know the Guru ji is a pavitr text and not a person in the Gurdwara (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji).. so since bowing down to Idols is bad isn't that bad that we bow down to the Guru ji even though they told us not to? Also I'm confused on why we can't pray in a room where we have our guru's photos and were the Sikh Gurus "Devtas"?, because Guru Nanak DEV ji has that word in his name so does that mean he was not human? Thank you!!(: **

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 23-Dec-2011, 20:40 PM

when Hindus ( or others) bow to statues..thats the be all and end all...they DONT EXPECT the statue to talk..say something..have a message...ZILCH. Those are REAL IDOLS.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has a message..just open and read..the Guru talks back to you..advises you....anyone can consult the Guru..any time..any place..anyhow...the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is NOT an IDOL..not by a long shot...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/37784-idol-worship.html

Imagine a Horse...one made of stone....and another LIVE one....the Live one can be fed..used as a means of transport..companionship..loved..respected....the STONE is just a STONE...but IF a person seeing soemone BOW to a stone horse..wants to BOW to a lIVE Horse..its His wish...what can we do...other than he understand that he cna ride the living horse..enjoy its company..etc...

so if a SIKH seeing a Hindu bowing to Sri ganesh..wnats to bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the same way..thats his wish...while the Sri ganesh will keep his trunk tightly shut..the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cna be opened and READ..consulted..depended upon for comfort and companionship....There are LOTS of Sikhs who treat the Living horse same a s a STONE ONE !!

Kamala · #3 (**permalink**) 23-Dec-2011, 20:53 PM

I understand what you are saying Gyani ji, but when we bow down to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in the gurdwara, we cannot freely go and read it... it's all in poetic forms and hard to understand to the naked eye.

Ambarsaria · #4 (**permalink**) 23-Dec-2011, 21:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13800038

I understand what you are saying Gyani ji, but when we bow down to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in the gurdwara, we cannot freely go and read it... it's all in poetic forms and hard to understand to the naked eye.

13800038 ji thanks for your post.

I assume you know Punjabi. Because if you don't then you have a dependency on Phonetics and/or translations of others.

You can go to the following site to read it page by page in Punjabi, Hindi and English,

srigranth.org

You can download Gurbani for reading on your computer from the following,

http://www.gurbanifiles.org/translations/index.htm

In terms of bowing, it is a simple way to respect and a moment of introspection for me. I read as I need on the computer.

Sat Sri Akal.

Soul_jyot · #5 (**permalink**) 23-Dec-2011, 22:03 PM

MATHA TEKNA

There are many ways and there are many levels of paying respect to someone. There are
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784
different methods of greeting your friend, your parents, your teacher your fellow citizen etc.
Some people fold their hands in front of their chest and bend their head slightly; some bend
their body at the waist with their head bending downwards and hands going backwards like the
Japanese, most people handshake; some people embrace each other, etc… In India, people bow
so as to touch the feet of an elderly holy person or parents, is an age-old custom to express
respect. It is practiced even today as good manners. Respecting your parents by bowing
before them is not human worship. It is a ritual to pay respect. Some religions do Matha tek
to Dharti (Earth), others do matha tek to Sooraj (Sun).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784

To begin with matha tekna starts with our repect towards our Guru Ji. “Matha” means
forehead and “Tekna” means to place or to submit. It is bowing down on the knees and touching
the floor with our forehead in front of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is the Sikh way of paying
obeisance to our living eternal Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We are required to take off our
shoes, socks and cover our head before entering the prayer hall. No tobacco or intoxicants are
allowed. Worshippers generally place offerings in front of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, in a box
called Golak, but this is not mandatory. Non-Sikhs are not required to bow, but may enter and
quietly join the congregation.

Utmost respect and humility is desired in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib. Guru
Granth Sahib Ji’s presence in darbaar is like Guru Nanak Dev Ji or any other Guru Sahib is.
Sikhs bow before Guru Granth Sahib Ji in total submission. In fact we bow to the Guru that
is embodied in the Guru Granth Sahib, as a Shabad guru. Sikhs are not allowed to bow before
any person or shrine other that Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a Guru.

This is not idol worship. Philosophically, this means that when we bow before Guru Ji, we
make a promise to ourselves to follow the path suggested by Guru Ji. It is something similar to
taking an oath to the constitution by raising our right hand. It signifies that we acknowledge our
human failings in front of the Guru and ask forgiveness and His blessing. We are submitting and
surrendering ourselves to Guru Ji, i.e. giving up our "mat" (our thoughts), meaning manmat. At
the same time requesting Guru Ji to guide us in all our endeavors, which is Gurmat.
As we know, we have writings about our life written by Akalpurkh (the creator) on our
forehead.

lyKy AMdr sB ko sBnW msqk lyK ilKwXw]
laekhae andhur subh ko subhunaa musuthuk laekh likhaayaa

All are responsible (for their actions) and carry writ of fate on their forehead.
Only Guru’s blessing can cut our sins and rearrange these writings.

nwnk iqh bMDn kty gur kI crnI pwih ]1]
Naanak thih ba(n)dhhan kattae gur kee charanee paahi ||1|| Panna 259

O Guru Nanak, one who falls at the Feet of the Guru, has his bonds cut away. ||1||

This gesture is not only about submitting but also receiving. A Sikh takes back Guru’s blessings
and His Hukam (the order). The Hukam is to be put into practice in our daily life. By doing
Matha tek we get the energy from Guru Ji to fight off all evils.

kwmu k®oDu loBu qij gey ipAwry siqgur crnI pwie ]5]
kaam krodhh lobh thaj geae piaarae sathigur charanee paae ||5||
Lust, anger and greed left me, O Beloved, when I fell at the Feet of the True Guru. ||5||

Guru Angad Dev Ji emphasizes that:
jo isru sWeI nw invY so isru dIjY fwir ]
jo sir saaee naa nivai so sir kap outhaar

Chop off that head which does not bow to the Lord.
Guru Ji tells us the consequences of not submitting ourselves to Guru Ji;
aun siqgur AwgY sIsu n byicAw Eie Awvih jwih ABwgy ]

They have not sold their heads to the True Guru; those wretched, unfortunate ones continue
coming and going in reincarnation.

On the other hand if one bows for the sake of bowing then it is merely a hollow ritual and the
meaning of the act is lost. Guru Sahib says in Asa di-var:

"AprwDI dUxw invY jo hMqw imrgwih] sIis invwieAY ikAw QIAY jw irdY kusuDy jwih]1]"

"A culprit who has an evil desire of hunting a deer has to bring himself down to his knees in order to kill
a deer. What is the use of bowing if your intentions are not good or there is evil in your mind"?

source: http://www.insightvaluation.com/sc/S...MathaTekna.pdf

Tejwant Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2011, 00:45 AM

Matah Teknah in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru means commitment to read, understand,learn and practice the message in there. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not need a $1.00 in front but our Guru demands from us our Tan, Mann and Dhan so that we can breed goodness within and share it with others.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784

Otherwise, it is nothing but idol worshipping, feeding a stone horse using Gyani ji's wonderful analogy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784

Tejwant Singh

Scarlet Pimpernel · #7 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2011, 05:27 AM

Sister ,To save his bhagat, God is said to have appeared from a stone pillar and as for pictures or statues ,anyone who loves someone keeps their likeness,it does not mean they are in love with a picture or statue,that is simply a misunderstanding of it.Respect is essential and that is what the bow is for.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784
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Joginder Singh Foley · #8 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2011, 06:11 AM

Since when has bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jiji when entering the Gurdwara been construed as idol worship. it is not idol worship but showing respect

Ambarsaria · #9 (**permalink**) 24-Dec-2011, 06:35 AM

Veer Joginder Singh Foley ji people who want to screw Sikhism and make it look like Hinduism or some other -ism start and inject this all the time. It is pretty naive and generally comes from lack of maturity, ignorance or malice. Unfortunately lot of the time the latter.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37784

We tolerate, kind of. Many do get distracted and made into doubters fulfilling wishes of the muck rakers.

Very rarely are such raised out of honesty or genuine desire to learn. When they don't get the kind of answer expected, they go into hibernation and start another doubt generating thread.

We tolerate/ignore.

Sat Sri Akal.