Gayatri Mantra

aristotle · #64 (**permalink**) 09-Jan-2012, 17:58 PM

"There are four castes—Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras.
Among these, each preceding (caste) is superior by birth to the one following.<sup> </sup>For all these excepting Shudras and those who have committed bad actions are ordained (1) the initiation (Upanayan or the wearing of the sacred thread), (2) the study of the Veda and (3) the kindling of the sacred fire (i.e., the right to perform sacrifice"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/33304-gayatri-mantra.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33304
(RIG VEDA, "Apstambha Dharma Sutra")

If still someone claims that the Vedas don't recognize the caste system (by birth), I can only laugh.

dogra · #65 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 19:42 PM

oh dear, let me show the clear verses and link, so u can have a good laugh, as the truth is very clear:
http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

Quote:

The actual word used for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra is ‘Varna’ and not Jaati.
The word ‘Varna’ is used not only for these four, but also for Dasyu and Arya.
‘Varna’ means one that is adopted by choice

simple enough, now for verses:
http://agniveer.com/821/vedas-and-shudra/

Quote:

Yajurved 26.2:
The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine.
Atharvaved 19.32.8:
O Lord! May I be loved by everyone – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Shudra or Vaishya. May I be admired by everyone.

These are sufficient evidence to conclude that Shudra, as per Vedas, imply something quite different from a caste or community that has to be discriminated against

Every society has basic functions in order to operate, and there is dignity of labour for all functions:

Quote:

Rigveda 1.117.21
The King and minister should sow seeds and do farming from time to time to set right examples for Arya. This makes them deserving of praise.
Rigveda 8.22.6 echoes the same sentiment.
Rigveda 4.57.4 states that the king should hold the plough and start the farming during beginning of season. He should also ensure healthy cows for milk.
Accordingly, we also find in Ramayan the reference of King Janak ploughing when he found Sita (Ramayan 1.66.14)

quite clear that these reconcile back to primal messages of God residing in hearts oif all beings and endgame for Hindu faith: MOKSHA, which can only be achieved if one leads a noble life
Sanatan Dharma(hinduism) teaches to practice humanity and thats a fact!

cmon Aristotle show your link

dogra · #66 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 19:50 PM

some more:
(intEresting how oxford uni for hindu studies said no untouchability, so did Sri Vivekenanda, but a number of non hindu faith individuals think they know more than scriptures themselves, now thats funny
http://agniveer.com/5276/vedas-caste-discrimination/

Quote:

In summary, we see that the Vedic society considers all humans to be one single Jaati or race, upholds the dignity of labor and provides equal opportunity for all humans to adopt the Varna of their choice.
There is no element of birth-based discrimination of any manner in the Vedas.
May we all unite together as one integrated family, reject the last element of birth-based discrimination of any manner and embrace each other as brothers and sisters.

and thats a FACT!!

aristotle · #67 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 20:06 PM

@Dogra Ji,
* That means casteism in Hinduism is by choice and not by birth. That means anyone can adopt any caste by choice. Can a person 'born' into a Shudra family take the caste of 'Sharma'(=A Brahmin caste) and become a Brahmin?
Can you demonstrate any Shudra who has become a Brahmin?
If this is not possible, isn't debating over Hindu Scriptures in this regard a vain exercise.
In reality, if this were true, Shudras would not have been terrorised and tortured for centuries.

* I posted a quote from the Apstambha Dharma Sutra from Rig Veda, about which you haven't been able to answer. There is no fun in throwing quotes and links in counter-answers. First answer about that quote from Apstambha Dharma Sutra and then talk about other quotes...

dogra · #68 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 20:15 PM

Aristotle have provided you with verses which reconcile to basis points, which you have not replied to, and also i asked for the link so that if i need to ask questions to more learned people can do so.
Basic facts that you has to reconcile to is God resides in hearts of all people and Moksha but now again back to changes of professions as already provided in previous post:

http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

Quote:

Many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.
a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.
b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)
c. Satyakaam Jaabaal was son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.
d. Prishadh was son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting.
(Vishnu Puran 4.1.14)
Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?
e. Nabhag, soon of King Nedishtha became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)
f. Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)
g. Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)
h. As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.
i. Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.
j. Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (VP 4.3.5)
k. Shaunak became Brahmin though born in Kshatriya family. (VP 4.8.1). In fact, as per Vayu Puran, Vishnu Puran and Harivansh Puran, sons of Shaunak Rishi belonged to all four Varnas.
Similar examples exist of Gritsamad, Veethavya and Vritsamati.
l. Matanga was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.
m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.
n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.
o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal
p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.
q. Vidur was son of a servant but became a Brahmin and minister of Hastinapur empire.

aristotle · #69 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 20:19 PM

@Dogra Ji,
Please do a Google search on Apstambha Dharma Sutra. I had asked about the same from a Hindu priest and also seen the same in the printed translation he showed me.

dogra · #70 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 20:19 PM

There is clear distinction between corrupted cultural practices and clear humanity of verses in scriptures, basic fact.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33304
Corrupt indivuduals wanted to maintain their offspring in more wealthy positions hence corruption, but we will state to truth of Vedas and to help vanquish social evil of birth base caste not in scriptures-fact

dogra · #71 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 20:20 PM

can u provide link

dogra · #72 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2012, 20:22 PM

can you comment on following verse:

Quote:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=64 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=17>In sloka (X.20)</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>"I am the Self seated in the heart of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the very end of all beings". All beings have, therefore to be treated alike</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>