The Shakat and Tantric philosophy

Dear Kanawar Sher Singh ji
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

The Pauri
Eka Maaee Jugat Viaee Tin Chele Parwan

refers to the Shakat and Tantric philosophy that was very popular on the Indian religious scene a couple of centuries before Guru Nanak Dev ji (Remember Khajuraho temples, 12th century).
To put the whole thing in perspective we must not think of Hinduism to be a homogenous & coherent stream of thought. The major streams which in some instances are antithetical to one another are: (1) Vaishanism, where Vishnu is the ultimate reality who appears in incarnations to rid this planet of sin, i.e. Ram, Krishan, NarSinh, etc. (2) Shaivism, where Shiv is the ultimate reality and who does not follow the Avtar pattern of Vishnu but is ever present on the Kailash mountain with his consorts. (3) Shakat and Tantric streams, consider the ultimate reality to be a female (hence, the word Maee in Japuji) who creates initially the universe, then the trinity of gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiv. The followers of this female worship her in various Devi forms viz., Kali, Kalika, Durga, Chandi, Laxmi, Ganga, and a host of other Devi forms. The important thing to note in their case is (the point often not realised) that those who are staunch Devi or Shakti followers do not worship the three major gods mentioned above b

ut rather ridicule them with the understanding that the latter are at a lower plane and are creation of the Godess. This is manifested in the Devi mythology, e.g. in the Durga or Chandi's story she restores the gods in heaven after they all were defeated by the demons. These gods having suffered defeat go to Durga and wait near her abode to ask for her help. One day She comes to have a bath outside when the gods ask for help.( Ik dihare nahwan ayee Rani Durgsah, Indar virtha sunaee apne haal di - Chandi di Vaar, Dasam Granth). Similarly, we see in Dasam Granth, one of the Devi worshipper court poet of Guruji says, Main na Ganesh Pritham Manaoon, Kishen Bishen Kabhoon na Dhiaoon, Kaan Sune Pahechaan na tin ko, .... At the end we have the swayyia we so lovingly ascribe to Guru ji which actually was written by another poet .i.e Pai Gahe Jab te tumre tab te koyoo ankh tare nahin aniyo. Ram Rahim Puran Quran Anek kahain mat ek na maniyo.... Sri Asipan kirpa tumri kar main na kahiyo sab tohe vakhaniyo..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/1368-the-shakat-and-tantric-philosophy.html

Here the word Asipan needs to be noted. Kali or Kalika is considered by Tantric Shakats to be the ultimate reality. The iconography shows Kali witha an iron weapon in her hand and the worshippers adore her in this pose. Asi means iron and Asipan means an iron weapon which could be a Kharag or any other similar weapon. The only cult or Hindu religious stream that worships iron or iron weapons is the one that worships Kali. Kali is also considered synonymous with iron metal (Sarabloh).
We Sikhs in our enthusiasm and lack of understanding of various streams of Hindu belief try to own something which has nothing to do with Sikh thought and is patently Tantric or Shakat (the difference between Tantrics and Shakats is that the former recognis only Kali or Kalika, the latter worship a whole plethora of Devis) We tend to gloat over the idea that Gurji worshiped the sword as God's Shakti. This is not the truth and is a very trivial idea. Shakti is another name for Maya which according to the Gurbani is to be detested and overcome. Then how can tenth Guruji worship something that is another name for Maya. The clever writers who were basically Shakat and occansionly Vaishanav introduced so much of their Tantric ideas in Dasam Granth that the eighteenth century Sikhs innocently accepted these as authentic and absorbed these into Sikh rituals such as Ardas and Rahiras.

Guru Nanak Dev ji was well aware of not just the Hindu variations but others such as Budhist, Jain, and Muslim as well. In the Pauri in Japuji, Guru ji is simply stating what the Shakats and Tantrics (some these were Sidhs as well) professed as their philosophy as an example.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368

Thus, what the Hindu friends of yours are saying is not far from the truth. However, we have to first learn a lot about Hinduism and other traditions extant at the time of Gurujis to see Gurbani in the real perspective. This is the only way we can fight the challenge posed by others bombarding us with clever moves.

We must first objectively sort out the authentic from adultration especially in Dasam Granth which is our weak point exploited by clever Hindu propagandists.

Humbly,
I remain the Charan Dhoor of Sadh Sangat

Serjinder Singh

 
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PrIdw kwl^ØI ijnI n rwivAw DaulI rwvY koie ]

Serjinder singh
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368

You are just beating about the bush above.I challenge you to prove your points by citing from Dasam Granth.Otherwise it is a propaganda in favour of your Hindu masters.

who are these "court poets"? which one wrote what? how do you know this? can you cite proof?

i think the recently surfacing "allergy" to "hindu" thought is making us blind to the true message of Guru Sahib. we spend so much time trying to prove we're not hindus by expunging anything even remotely "hindu" sounding... couldn't we find better use for our time? just a thought...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368


Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368
btw, i agree with Inder veerji above... the anti-dasam bani movement is clearly instigated and encouraged by hindutva who wish to create division within the sikh quam. let us not allow them to win.

Jasleen kaur ji

They will write with names such as khalsa and wear gatra from outside their shirt like kala afghana to mislead sikhs.In fact this is disguise to mislead us.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368

If this Dr Khalsa has some ethics he should write and tell us how he reached his conclusions?Otherwise it is garbage written to mislead young sikhs.

i agree that this topic can be very misleading... but i'm very surprised to see it coming from DrKhalsa, as he is normally very intelligent and rational. this is why i'd like to see the proofs and sources for the post. i'm honestly quite shocked at this behavior and wonder if someone else is posting misusing his account?

Jasleen Kaur

I have messed up.Are Dr Khalsa and Serjinder singh same.In all probability not.

Serjinder singh is a known sikh baiter as he criticizes sikh history,Bana of Khalsa,Amrit sanchar ceremony,Dasam Granth.So he may be a different person.

DrKhalsa is a rational and intelligent individual, apart from being a doctor. Online Sikh satsang/discussion does change everyone in due course. In the case of drkhalsa, he posted this article on 30-12-2004 - exactly 3 years ago.

Within those 3 years Internet technology was not as advanced as today. And there were not as many active members.

Everybody who comes to a site like SPN begins to understand Gurbani by filtering out all other pre-conceptions like Hindu rituals, reincarnation concept, etc. etc.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368

Earlier, we carry along ideas that Gurbani is at par level with other occult knowledge. With sangat's influence and discussion of gurbani, we slowly separate the milk from the water.

eek, sorry about that, i didn't notice the original posting date!

sorry...

Dr Khalsa and Serjinder singh are two different persons.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1368

Gurbani is gurbani.What do you mean by Hindu concepts and reincarnation?

Are you telling sikhism does not believe in Reincarnation?In my view it beleives in Reincarnation.It is not Hindu concept.