How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/Race?

Luckysingh · #**667** (**permalink**) 11-Sep-2012, 06:27 AM

Names are important, especially the ones that most punjabis have that originate from clans and help determine your caste.
This was the very reason that we were to use the universal name SINGH for boys and Kaur for girls.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/8550-how-many-sikhs-have-married-out.html

Sadly, I have been to some Gurdwaras here and made a small donation etc.. and then the Gyani or whoever will offer to do a receipt for you and ask you your surname. - To which I reply S-I-N-G-H. Yet, they will insist on what is your family name or the name after Singh!!!

This does irritate me, even though I will insist that SINGH is my surname, Although like most of us my birth certificate does have 'Singh' as the middle name. The last name is our so called 'clan' name that associates us to our caste from so and so pind back in Punjab!!
--To me it's all a load of **** and is not part of sikhism.- Full Stop!

palaingtha · #**668** (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 13:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckysingh

Names are important, especially the ones that most punjabis have that originate from clans and help determine your caste.
This was the very reason that we were to use the universal name SINGH for boys and Kaur for girls.

Sadly, I have been to some Gurdwaras here and made a small donation etc.. and then the Gyani or whoever will offer to do a receipt for you and ask you your surname. - To which I reply S-I-N-G-H. Yet, they will insist on what is your family name or the name after Singh!!!

This does irritate me, even though I will insist that SINGH is my surname, Although like most of us my birth certificate does have 'Singh' as the middle name. The last name is our so called 'clan' name that associates us to our caste from so and so pind back in Punjab!!
--To me it's all a load of **** and is not part of sikhism.- Full Stop!

Reply:-

Lucky Singh Ji, Gur Fateh,

I am of the opinion that there is no harm in giving your family name as affix to your name. Our Gurus have said that one must not attach pride to his high caste. In Sukhmani Sahib the 5th. Master has said in sixth Ashtpadi that, "Jeh Parsad teri niki jaat, so prabh simar sada din raat" viz. If the God has given you a beautiful caste, then remember HIM day and night. If the Guru ji had wanted us not to attach any significance to a family name then he would not have said that in Sukhmani Sahib.
Our Gurus are also known by their castes. The only need in the matter was/is that we should not be too proud of our so called higher caste and say bad things about those of so called lower castes. "Ahankaar Nahi karna". We should not look down upon the so called lower caste Sikhs or of other religions. That is the essence of the matter.

harry haller · #**669** (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 13:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palaingtha

Reply:-

Lucky Singh Ji, Gur Fateh,

I am of the opinion that there is no harm in giving your family name as affix to your name. Our Gurus have said that one must not attach pride to his high caste. In Sukhmani Sahib the 5th. Master has said in sixth Ashtpadi that, "Jeh Parsad teri niki jaat, so prabh simar sada din raat" viz. If the God has given you a beautiful caste, then remember HIM day and night. If the Guru ji had wanted us not to attach any significance to a family name then he would not have said that in Sukhmani Sahib.
Our Gurus are also known by their castes. The only need in the matter was/is that we should not be too proud of our so called higher caste and say bad things about those of so called lower castes. "Ahankaar Nahi karna". We should not look down upon the so called lower caste Sikhs or of other religions. That is the essence of the matter.

People will manipulate, if you give them an arm they will take a leg, and there will always be those that hide behind

Quote:

The only need in the matter was/is that we should not be too proud of our so called higher caste and say bad things about those of so called lower castes

in one breathe and then say

Quote:

To marry within Sikhism and a boy from Sikh family with any family name like Malhotra, Gulati or Mann etc. is OK as per our religion.

Interestingly the very SRM that you quoted to me has something to say about this

CHAPTER X

Article XVI - Living in Consonance with Guru's Tenets (Gurmat Rehni)

A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:
a) Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.
b) Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.
c) Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.
d) Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty,

p.s. if you could please supply the page number for your quote that would be wonderful, thank you

palaingtha · #**670** (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 18:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

People will manipulate, if you give them an arm they will take a leg, and there will always be those that hide behind in one breathe and then say

Interestingly the very SRM that you quoted to me has something to say about this

CHAPTER X

Article XVI - Living in Consonance with Guru's Tenets (Gurmat Rehni)

A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:
a) Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.
b) Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.
c) Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.
d) Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty,

p.s. if you could please supply the page number for your quote that would be wonderful, thank you

Reply:

The Bani " Jeh parsad teri nikee jaat, so prabh simar sada din raat" is on pp 270 of Guru Granth Sahib.

Akasha · #**671** (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2012, 09:52 AM

Hmm I read most of the responses here... my own question on this, because I am interested in the 'race' part.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

How many Punjabi Sikhs here would consider marrying a Gori Sikh? Obviously religion would not be an issue... but what about race? And caste would not even come into it since as a Gori I have none!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

Just wondering what my chances are as a Gori Sikh because I obviously want to marry a Sikh man. Preferably one who keeps his kesh and wears turban.

Luckysingh · #**672** (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasha

Hmm I read most of the responses here... my own question on this, because I am interested in the 'race' part.

How many Punjabi Sikhs here would consider marrying a Gori Sikh? Obviously religion would not be an issue... but what about race? And caste would not even come into it since as a Gori I have none!

Just wondering what my chances are as a Gori Sikh because I obviously want to marry a Sikh man. Preferably one who keeps his kesh and wears turban.

I'm sure that most them woud have no problems, especialy here in the west.
My wife has indian,hispanic,italian and german blood ! But we both have red blood.

Rajwinder · #**673** (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2012, 21:55 PM

Isnt that a funny question.. if u r really following sikh thing .. then caste/jat/pat doesnt matter. So if this pool says 20 % married out of caste that doesnt make them sikhs just because they married outside their caste and the 80 % which didnt married out of caste it doesnt make them sikh as well .. So the number that u will get will mean this .. 20 % of people ( who "think" they are really following sikh thing ) may be really sikhs and 80 % ( who "think" they are really following sikh thing ) are not actually really sikhs ;-)

palaingtha · #**674** (**permalink**) 31-Dec-2012, 22:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajwinder

Isnt that a funny question.. if u r really following sikh thing .. then caste/jat/pat doesnt matter. So if this pool says 20 % married out of caste that doesnt make them sikhs just because they married outside their caste and the 80 % which didnt married out of caste it doesnt make them sikh as well .. So the number that u will get will mean this .. 20 % of people ( who "think" they are really following sikh thing ) may be really sikhs and 80 % ( who "think" they are really following sikh thing ) are not actually really sikhs ;-)

You may agree with me every body at SPN is obsessed with giving his belief to be the ultimate judgement. It will be better every body posts his reply with due reference to Gurbani.
Some people are addicted to bulldozing their views and that also in a taunting manner. Low intellect!

Tejwant Singh · #**675** (**permalink**) 03-Jan-2013, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palaingtha

Reply:

The Bani " Jeh parsad teri nikee jaat, so prabh simar sada din raat" is on pp 270 of Guru Granth Sahib.

Palaingtha ji,

Guru Fateh.

Would you be kind enough to post the whole Shabad with your own understanding and learning of it (no literal translations please) so that, I and other SPNers can learn from your insights about it?

Looking forward to it.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh