How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/Race?

With all due respect, I still think it would have had a great impact on the psycie of the Sikhs if even one of our great Gurus had married out of his caste.
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Josh jee,
That is not the question at all on this thread. A person doing any thing within his race/tribe /cast is a normal affair & has no controvery attached to this. Question started By Bhai Randip jee was how many of us have those guts to do something not normal in the system but also a thing which Sikhi does support. Thus, it becomes a sort of Iron Test for us Sikhs. How many of us Sikhs can go against the established system. I hope it should clarify the text in question.
Guru Fateh.
Hardip Singh

Nicely explained. You have it right.
"how many of us Sikhs can go against the established system". Needs to be elaborated. That line might leave some people confused. Marrying Out of established system does not mean out of dharam/sikhi etc.

Not many! The majority of sikhs are classed in the lowest hindu caste category but does it stop them trying to prove that their jaat/caste is the tops!

ssakal all

I was wondering if someone could explain to me what the guru granth sahib says about love marriages, or jus marriages in general (with some proof), and what the guru granth says, if anything, about marrying someone who is divorced or if he/she has children from a previpous marriage??
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/8550-how-many-sikhs-have-married-out.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

thanx!

jotty4 ji,
Guru Granth Sahib ji is silent on marriage with someone who is divorced and/or someone who has children from a previous marriage. Guru ji is remarkable among religious texts for its lack of micromanagement of the affairs of human beings. Seva to God and Seva to humanity, living in dharma, making an honest living, these are the things we are guided toward by the Gurus.

On the subject of marriage Guruji does guide us -- usually in the direction that says do not subvert the spirituality in your marriage through the workings of lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego to your spouse or your children, anymore than to anything else in your life. Strive to attach yourself to the Lotus feet of Waheguru. And live in your marriage as soul-mates with Him.

Be one soul through 2 bodies.

You can link to the shabad below that explains how attachment to spouse and children and relatives affect each individual.

Page77 Line 15 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

ਪੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਕਲਤ੍ਰਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਲਪਟਿਆ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਹਰਿ ਲੋਭਾਨੁ ॥
puthr kalathr mohi lapattiaa vanajaariaa mithraa anthar lehar lobhaan ||
He is entangled in emotional attachment to his wife and sons, O my merchant friend, and deep within him, the waves of greed are rising up.

When Guruji speaks of marriage - it is the marriage with a Divine Bridegroom. There are many verses like this one. Again, the link to the shabad is just above the Gurbani,

Page763 Line 16 Raag Soohee: Guru Nanak Dev

ਸਾਹਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਰਜਾਇ ਸੋ ਨ ਟਲੈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਕਰੈ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥
saahaa hukam rajaae so n ttalai jo prabh karai bal raam jeeo ||
The moment of that marriage will be set by the Hukam of God's Command; His Will cannot be changed.

When Guruji speaks of a husband or wife, both husband and wife are considered the soul brides of Waheguru, and should strive for the virtues that bring one closer to the Bridegroom.

Page17 Line 19 Raag Sriraag: Guru Nanak Dev

ਜਾਇ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਤੁਸੀ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਕਿਨੀ ਗੁਣਂ​*ੀ ॥
jaae pushhahu sohaaganee thusee raaviaa kinee gunanaee ||
Go, and ask the happy soul-brides, ""By what virtuous qualities do you enjoy your Husband Lord?""

In this shabad, the evil and foolish wife can be either a man or a woman. The point of the shabad is that husband and wife need to try to attain virtues that befit the marriage of their souls with the Divine Bridegroom.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੈਲੀ ਕਾਮਣੀ ਕੁਲਖਣੀ ਕੁਨਾਰਿ ॥
manamukh mailee kaamanee kulakhanee kunaar ||
The self-willed manmukh, the foolish bride, is a filthy, rude and evil wife.

ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਪਰ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
pir shhoddiaa ghar aapanaa par purakhai naal piaar ||
Forsaking her Husband Lord and leaving her own home, she gives her love to another.

ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਜਲਦੀ ਕਰੇ ਪੂਕਾਰ ॥
thrisanaa kadhae n chukee jaladhee karae pookaar ||


ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੁਰੂਪਿ ਕੁਸੋਹਣੀ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਛੋਡੀ ਭਤਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
naanak bin naavai kuroop kusohanee parehar shhoddee bhathaar ||1||
O Nanak, without the Name, she is ugly and ungraceful. She is abandoned and left behind by her Husband Lord. ||1||


So love marriage or arranged marriage for Sikhs there are few ingredients in the recipe but the preparation requires a lot of effort.

WOw that has cleared up and answered so many questions in my mind... I feel like my path in life is more defined now not just regarding marriage but so many other issues, thanx for your help!

Thank you SO much

Sorry a question. How do I start a a new thread? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

I had a question re: Hindu-Sikh marriages? From what I understand, Zaat mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji encompasses everything: caste, religion, race, ethnicity.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

I am a sikh of devout sikh parents in love with a Hindu man. I completely believe in the sikh philosophy and go to the gurudwara on a regular basis. I recite the path and meditate as well. But in no way haave I ever said to myself: I will only marry a Sikh.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

Please tell me how to post a thread. I need advice on how to convince my father that marrying a Hindu is acceptable in Sikhism.

I think the decision is upto you and your partner. Sikhism and Hinduism are distict religions but they are religions that co-exist. In India there are many couples like you two. If you don't think its a problem, its not.