How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/Race?

I have yet to be called a hypocrite in any sense of the word. What happens then, PK JI, to the love of parents when such a person forsakes the home to pursue a dream, Do you know how many declarers of such a love, wrecked homes, destroyed lives, only to find with hindsight after the initial bloom of love had faded to regret bitterly losing their minds and breaking their homes for a ‘’love’’. You are a hypocritical and an easily proven one.
Do you know how many people suffered and are suffering just because for some reason they bowed to that “HONOR” you have been advocating? If that proves me hypocrite, still that is your judgment, I least pay attention what you call me. Who judge others so quickly display their own selves, nothing more than that.

There are no modern day love stories for love is almost murdered. People become consumed with lust when finding someone interested in them, bore as quickly and are passed over for another. Ninety eight percent of divorced men, two years post the divorce regret their decision, for the new ‘’love’’ was not the promised Utopia it seemed but one degenerate enough to cold bloodedly destroy another life and standing to secure someone for their own agenda, there are few who cannot be purchased for a price, some for pennies, and fewer still who cannot be as easily seduced by another when testing their devotion, love has nothing to do with it, rather it is about power.
Well this kind of data is available on other side too like in so called arranged marriages decorated with Honor bowing. In love dominating in power doesn’t exist, who really did, go and ask them, if they are not many it doesn’t mean they don’t exist. If love is tainted with other stuff, that is not the fault of love!

Your negative view of honour killings and families who value their good name above the personal agendas of others is misguided.
It is a fact, a fact doesn’t misguide, you must learn to accept facts instead of ignoring them.
Most people do not know what love, they crave success and affection, fame and fortune, the trappings of affluence and world forsake God for such things
All who love as it is in real sense do not fall into the category you are stating. If we accept your tainted views with false honor and respectable families, how could we ignore the ratio of their divorces, tragedies happened due to that honor? Only those fall in that category you stated who tainted the love or forcefully bowed to false illusion carried on centuries even against Guru Message. You couldn’t personally accept my contrary views and started jumping on judging me, what I can learn from your convictions? What is the use of such convictions? It says it all; ego covered with sweet language cannot be hidden. How it will treat a genuine love is obvious.
Our Guru’s underwent great trials and murders for this faith. I would not put such sacrifice on a par with some besotted girl chasing a boy in heat with religion or Love, but wanton lust. It is lust, a need or craving giving no consideration to family honour, God or society. It stems from the weaker ranks of Sikhism.
Guru ji didn’t preach honor feeding ego of some families with respectable labels. It was Guru ji who advocated to shed this fairy honor and become one community. Ego lovers made their caste their honor, ego lovers made their status a honor. I am not surprised to read your views because a complex of honor judges others quickly.

 
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Har Bisrat Sda Khuari - Mehla 5

Regards,
G. Singh

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SPN Sangat, I have found what have been looking for to support my stand in context of love and its importance in marriage.
What I have advocated is just an inspiration from Guru Teaching that supports the true love between husband and wife. If that is created or started with this in that relation, there is no chance of infidelity and any other illusion can affect the relationship; together they can proceed on spiritual path. Love has nothing to do with lust and other things that tarnish the soul. Here is Guru advice:
ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/8550-how-many-sikhs-have-married-out.html
3rd Guru. They are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together[ As many do]. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one soul in two bodies.[ only those can do this who are in love]
ਜੋ (ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਸਰੀਰਕ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ) ਰਲ ਕੇ ਬਹਿਣ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਅਸਲ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਖਸਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਖੀਦਾ; ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਜਿਸਮਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਇੱਕੋ ਆਤਮਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ ਉਹ ਹੈ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਤੇ ਉਹ ਹੈਪਤੀ।੩।
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550
This cannot happen without true love, it is just not possible, true love doesn’t blossom due to dowry, respectable family, caste or bowing to false honor, it should be naturally there within; and it elevates the soul to higher level where power, honor lose their meaning. If this Guru teaching is not practiced, we are just in denial and in self created misery in the name of many words that are empty. That is the love I have been expressing through my posts, to label it as lust, infatuation and juvenile affair is to be in denial of a fact well expressed by Guru Ji. Otherwise how will it can be one if other elements keep the disturbance going on? It is like uniting together for the purpose Guru infuses in us, it strengthens the possibility of ultimate love.

sat sri akal

i agree totally on what you said above pk 70. that is what i meant as well . English is not my native language and i try to write as easy as i can in hope that you guys understand me . I think somebody like me who has been merried 20y and who has done everything possible on earth to save own family , knows what i am talking about and what the word ,, true love '' means . i haven't been in interracial or any non-sense relationship like somebody has mentioned above . A marriage must work both sided , one sided nothing works . I know somany Sikhs (please don't misunderstand ) which even they follow strictly all Guru Nanak Ji preachings , they still felt in Illusions and into western world`s traps . Strongest family preassure can't always help to save a family if one has decided to go some other way for every price . A marriage works only if two true souls become one, that is my own experience. One can bear all mistakes from the other very long time and act like everything is allright . Just one day he wakes up and opens eyes and ask himself ,, for what ? for kids ? kids already are growen up no need more to bear any bad garbagge stuff from the other one . Family many times sees all but don't interfere in anything and if they do, often it's too late.

The mind, heart and soul must submit to the scriptural reason, truth, word of The Almighty Supreme Spirit. To submit religion to the whims and wiles of the misguided is to ******* and desecrate the pure and sacred power and path of religion.

ok the thread it too long to read, but here are my views.

First all the Gurus married kshatriya women and using kshatriya traditions. I think it is wrong to tell people off for wanting to marry in their own caste only.

Also many people will then create boundaries between sikhs and non sikhs, as in being against marriage to non sikh but then preaching against people who follow their caste/tribal culture/traditions. I find this hypocritical way of thinking, applying sikhi and reasoning in one situation but not anohter, ie when it suits them.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

OF course I will marry within my own tribe, I am not married yet, if anyone has a problem with my decision, then I will see what they will do about it!

Is there an evidence for this?



Why would you marry in your own tribe? For what reasons?

erm sure there should be..



Alot of people liek to marry people from same tribe/race/caste/nation, it is just tradition
It means people with similar cultural views get married, reducing conflicts.
Guru jis did the same thing

Lion_Prince_Jatinder ji

Believe it or not -- for me, a person from a more western perspective, this topic and all the responses on the thread, are very interesting and educational. This is because a different culture and a different perspective on marriage and family are continually discussed. There is a lot for me to learn about the ways in which people from all over the world approach the subject.

A couple of questions. I myself do not understand why marriage within a "tribe" would be a high priority in modern times. Please do not think me rude-- but it seems that already, even with arranged marriages, there are a lot of Singhs who are having trouble finding any wife at all. So add more conditions, like the match of social and religious values, and getting married becomes an even bigger problem. The male to female ratio in Punjab is bad for men. Where are people going to find marriage partners if people add more conditions to the mix?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8550

Isn't that why matrimonial services on line are a big business? It is getting harder and harder to find a life-partner. And getting married is more than just getting the job done and getting it over with.

Another thing perplexes me. Please forgive me. I know many people from India who live here in the states and they come from many religious backgrounds. It does not seem to me that the Indian residents of the US who are Hindu and Muslim are as concerned about matches within caste and tribe as Sikhs are. Why is that? I am talking about the age group of maybe 40 years old and younger. Even the Indian Muslims over here (in fact most Muslims Indian or not) do not worry so much about arranged marriages. Of course there is a lot of family investigation and all of that. Relatives do try to bring young people together. But many younger Hindus and Muslims actually find their partners here in the US and romantic attraction is one part of the equation.

I hope I have not offended anyone -- but part of me is very puzzled.

One more thing -- Marriage is good for people. It is important to be married to someone to whom you will be devoted for a long, long time. Getting it right is not as simple as baking a cake from a list of ingredients. It is not that technical. Sometimes all the technical variables seem right at the beginning (looks, money, careers, religion, social class, etc.) and the result is a disaster -- for the couple and everyone around them.