Did Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ji ever get the respect he deserved as sikh martyr

Archived_member3 · #73 (**permalink**) 18-Jun-2008, 05:46 AM

My ignorance: who is 'das' ? Can anybody rewrite the text above? It seems Vijaydeep Singh wrote in English thinking in other language. Sorry, I can't understand. Any volunteer?
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Narayanjot Kaur · #74 (**permalink**) 18-Jun-2008, 06:40 AM

Kaur ji

"Das" means servant or slave. It is not uncommon for people with an Indian background to refer to themselves in communication in the 3rd person, using the word "das." It signifies that the person is placing himself/herself in a humbled position before others. A matter of a personally chosen communication style.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/5324-did-sant-jarnail-singh-bhindrawale-ji.html

Vijaydeep is a long-time member of the forum. He is known for his humor and his passion in writing about all kinds of Sikh issues, but in particular Gurbani and spiritual growing. As a person, he is an astute scholar and a humanitarian. After a while you will be able to understand him -- he says some very profound things.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #75 (**permalink**) 18-Jun-2008, 09:19 AM

Definitely and precisely said aad ji. I have known Vijaydeep Singh on SPN as well as Tapoban for quite a few years now. We have a few disagreements on a few subjects...( ususal in the realm of Gurbani/dsm granth/gurmatt etc) but i respect him immensely (although he is half my age ). His wriitng style and language is "desi" ( not meant negativitely as he is indian after all just as i am but we have lived and used English differently..so...cant comment further !!)..but his heart is in the right place and his wriitngs command respect. Bhen ji Brazilain kaur Ji..just slowdown a bit and read his posts slowly..you will get the gist of what vijay is saying...He is surely an asset to SPN and will remain so...Guru Ji Kirpa karan.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5324
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5324
Regards to all
Gyani jarnail Singh

drkhalsa · #76 (**permalink**) 18-Jun-2008, 13:48 PM

Dear Brazillian Kaur Ji

I have tried to make changes to his writing to make it more easy to read .
Below is the edited text

Actually as I know Vijaydeep Singh , he is multitasker kind of man so has got pretty much thin time to do lot many of things so he write in hurry and hardly get time to amend it .

HERE HE ( VIJAYDEEP SINGH)IS MENTIONING ABOUT HIS MEETING WITH HINDU MILITANT IN DEC 2007

Quote:

Most of them are illinformed about thier own faith ( ie Hinduism)so thier chances of knowing about us is something very remote.

Before das( Vijaydeep Singh) came to this point das did explain them things in thier own faith.Then das( Vijaydeep Singh) told that good things in them ( their Faikth ie. Hinduism)have been retained by us ( SIKHS )plus good lot of unpreceedented things to destroy unprcedednted evil unto mankind and Things to strenghted the man kind.

It was surprising that even before das ( Vijaydeep Singh)said these things many were interested to be sikh and one even said that keeping uncut hair is actually thier own legacy.

But then there was a pause.

Where das should have sent them to be baptised.??

In delhi Akalis were fighting.

Das could not belive missionaries for now as good lot of leftists ( Left Ploitical View) have entered them ,with whom Hindu militants are fighting.

In DDT( Damdmi Taksal ),Dhuma Ji( Leader of One Faction) fights with Baba Ram Singh Ji( Leader of other Parallel Faction)

Life of AKJ ( Akhand Kirtani Jatha)is unfit for jungle living guirillas.

So das took one of them to one Budhadal Bunga ( Nihang Faction).But there too we have drugs usage etc. so it does not seems good for revloution ( the work Sikh should be doing!).Das( Vijaydeep Singh) hopes that within year or two with change in government at centre ( India national Level ).Sikhs will have end of infighing in thier institution.And we will have new converts.Else also das( Vijaydeep Singh) will be getting permission of Baba Balbeer Singh ji ( Head od Major Nihang Faction )to conduct the conversion by himself(with Panj Piaras living near Das( Vijaydeep Singh)).

Hindus has some points which das( Vijaydeep Singh) did clarfied.

1.Sikhs worship god Shiva

Das explined that our Shiva is one who is in all and does not lives on the moutain.That should be your shiva as per your text.As per us the Nihung Shiva living on the mount Kaliash was first worshipper of sikh God Akal.

2. Jaats use to make one son as sikh(they mistook it for Khatris).

Das explained that it was much later during sikh rule that upper caste wanted to come near rulers that this thing happened ( the point two above) else faith ( SIKH ) belongs to outcastes and tribals and they should be our leader.

3. we are made to defend hinduism.

hindu is nation specific thing and we are universal faith(Vedas have no word hindu for faith)We are made to defend weak and poor and empower them by making them have faith in true God.We destroy the oppresor,if he/she does not surender to us.We have history to fight for Muslims also for thier just cause.

Even while we fight so called Islamic terror,Leftist ultra or west backed chirstian separtists.We do not have to have any sense of hatred towards any of them .

We will have to control those Hindu in our movement,who are racial(with superiorty complex of being from Aryan race) against the South Indians

meeting was held on 25/12/2007 at some location.

In future we should be ready to see the realisation of Karani Nammah.

Only thing is to keep tab of idiots like one who run spokesman ( Local Media Banner with Newspaper and Magzine).Even if Sikhs do not keep tab on them,thier self distruction phenomenon is already on.But yet we will have to have more true sikh Missionary ,who are more interested to convert more human kind to faith then to condem the fellow Sikhs in public and let potential be dis enchanted.

Akal bless .

if there is need of further clarification feel free to ask

Jatinder Singh

ballym · #77 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2010, 15:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurbilas

as a young boy I was highly impressed by Sant ji's words .
All this continued till finally 'terrorists' struck and killed my uncle . I felt so different and it was only then I first realised that the pain of death is the same for everybody.
I could identify more with the affected people and this was basically the reason for the end of terror in Punjab and not any Gill or Rebiero or Beant Singh.
There was no leadership for the Sikhs. I was like many other capable of following but not good enough to be a leader probably and hence the youth were lost which is partially the reason for the present state of Punjab.
Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was an excellent leader . In fact the reality is we are a scared lot. We know more than 50% of our population is 'Patit' as per the Rehatnama and the rest are also nonchalant. But how does it matter? If we only infuse the spirit of humanity in ourselves and incorporate truthful living as shown by Guru Granth Sahib Ji without having a face of Khalsa would that make us less of Sikhs? For sure being intolerant and insensitive to fellow human beings is much bigger a vice. And maybe this attitude will one day restore our pride and we stop talking big about our historical heroes and start following them in action.
And casteism, which the great Guru took out of us, will never leave us whatever we do. Because we have lost the essence of Sikhism.
We have definitely failed our Gurus. We are yet to learn to respect each other as human beings.

It is good that your childhood ideas changed later!
What KPS Gill did was to kill about one person in nearly everyfamily or khandan so that the same feeling you had also comes to each one. Gill may have done wrong but , other option is worse... all duplicate khalistanis dictating you!
Yes ,.. you r right about leadership needs but bhindranwale was not a great leader. he captured the opportunity. Everyone was scared of him.
I agree with the rest I quoted above for emphasis.
We do not even respect patits ... forget about Hindu, muslim, Christians.

dalbirk · #78 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2010, 16:52 PM

IMHO , Bhindranwale was planted by Indira , Zial singh & agencies into Sikh mainstream to take revenge from Akalis for their unparralleled courage shown during emergency when the whole country did not have guts to oppose her .
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5324
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India)
The whole national mainstream media after the Emergency just crumbled in front of Indira & Congress . They were fed with doctored reports & news making Bhindranwale a national hero in 1980 onwards , slowly he was made more popular than anything Sikhs had known since Master Tara Singh . Many ex Naxalites joined his ranks , also ex-army officer General Subeg singh a veteran of 1971 Indo-Pak war joined him . The growth in power accompanied by Bhindranwale's moving into Guru nanak Niwas made all calculations of Akalis go awry .The agencies started meanwhile started murdering selective Hindus & also Sikhs , blaming it on gun totting Bhindranwale's boys who were supplied arms by the same agencies , who was busy gathering limelight running his court from Guru nanak Niwas & passing judgements , while Indira was preparing a fool proof case against him . He was being portrayed as a terrorist , a danger to India's unity by National mainstream media , just a few days before Operation Bluestar Rajeev Gandhi termed him as a Saint in newspaper interview . Then all the pre planned attack came about for which Indian security forces had been planning & training for more than a year & half in Chakrata in Doon valley.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5324
IMHO Bhindranwale was a opportunist who tried to use Indira but he did not judge that Indira would go to any length to teach both him & Akalis a lesson , the other factor was the collective votes of Hindus & Muslims without annoying any of these communities , at the same time projecting herself as the saviour of India's unity & integrity . But the last three days of Bhindranwale washed all his misdeeds , when he & his boys fought with unparralleled grit & determination for upholding the sanctity of Darbar Sahib when he had all the chance , choice to escape to safety , thereby making him immortable in Sikh history . Any body interested in events of 1984 Bluestar & Nov 84 genocide kindlt read the book Kion Keete Visah by Narain Singh written in Feb 1985 , just after 1984 events , a complete independent , transparent account of atrocities commited on Sikhs pre-post 1947 . Any body interested kindly Pm your address & I'll do the needful .

harbansj24 · #79 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2010, 21:23 PM

There are some things which are beyond my limited comprehension. I will be grateful if someone could clear the cobwebs in my head.

Did Bhindranwale seriously believe that he could fight the might of of the Indian state by being holed up in a few acres of Darbar Sahib?
Surely he could not have been carried away and imagine himself of doing a repeat of Guru Gobind Singh jis battle at Chamkaur? Anybody can say that these two situations are not comparable.
Did he not realise that Indira Gandhi was just giving him a long rope and wanted to fix him and simultaneously humiliate the Sikhs. Did not Bhindranwale neatly fall into her trap?
When passengers were selectively being pulled out of buses and murdered in cold blood, why did not Bhindranwale condemn these acts? Is not killing of unarmed innocents of any faith, specifically against the teaching of our Gurus?
Did not the entire Sikh leadership come out poorly in the whole sorry episode and common Sikhs subjected to entirely avoidable trauma and ridicule worldwide?

Nehru and Indra Gandhi harmed the Sikhs a lot but INMO the response of Sikh leadership was without any well thought of Strategy. This was unlike any of our Gurus who were extemely alert to the situations and their actions well thought out and planned

faujasingh · #80 (**permalink**) 02-Feb-2010, 21:54 PM

His political views are not all agreeable, but let me tell you the things are not all clear due unavailability of unbiased accounts. History will never be unbiased.

For me i admire his love and zeal to a certain limit. His parchaar was excellent but again had a tint of naxalism in it in a certain way.

He would go from village to village and do amrit sanchaar, he would setup small groups armed to the teeth, they wouldnt allow any video parlours or wine shops in the area. The women were happy since after a long time the husbands were returning back home by dusk!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5324
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5324

He had a dedicated following due to his winning the hearts. But everything was run on the base of gun power.There are two sides of a coin.The hand which holds the gun to protect may not always do what was supposed to be done !

How much control can one have when one is away from the location? the guys whom he had setup, had direct power and the Congress was also wooing him. h

kee_jaana_mein_kaun · #81 (**permalink**) 03-Feb-2010, 00:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archived_member3

I acknowledge I have no elements to issue an opinion about Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. My local references were only from revolutionaries, communists who followed Che Chevara ideals (for whose who don't know Che Chevara he helped to expand Cuba revolution to Latin America). I'm politically very conservative and Brazilian politics is so corrupt I don't have stomach to talk about. I'd like to live in other country - I like USA - but immigration laws are almost impossible to be followed in full. Only religious ministers have a chance to get a permanent residency visa.

Just for curiousity sake how many times have you been to Punjab,Brazilan Kaur ?
How many years have you lived there ?