Gurbani Reduced to Magic Mantras

Thanks to Tejwant Singh for his very pertinent coments.
This idiotic drivel that Ishna quotes has to come from 3HO.
This nonsense appears in the Aquarian teachers manual and worst still in the misnamed site of Sikh Dharma International.
I must respectfull disagree with Harry Haller. This type of thing gives a bad impression of what Sikhs really are. I think these superstitions can make reasonable people think that all sikhs are crackpots.
Here in Mexico There are very few of us. I think in all the country there are about 1000 sikhs with 75% being 3HO. I have some good friends that are 3HO and they are well intentioned but we all know what they say about the road to hell.
My point is that this group is very large and is spreading its silly mumbo jumbo in a world where we already have too much.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/36860-gurbani-reduced-to-magic-mantras.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36860
As Sikhs We need to do a better job of getting the words of the Guru out into the world. Mexico need this message as does the rest of the world.
When we recite the Ardas We remember that people died horrible deaths to keep the true word of the Guru alive. I think if we have to hurt a few feeling to do the same , It´s not so bad

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

Firstly getting bani down throats is completely the wrong approach. Sikhi should be inspired by love, longing and peace, not force.

Secondly, superstition is easy to adopt and very difficult to shake so very very few people go from superstition to Sikhi. More people go the other way so by not actively combating superstition we are encouraging the dilution and mass exodus from Sikhi.

I am often considered the black sheep of the family and the Gurdwara congregation because I don't prescribe to the superstitious mumbo jumbo and refuse to teach it to the kids in gurmat classes. In fact I was ousted as a teacher, so you tell me which attitude is more harmful?!

P.s. Tejwant Veerji, it is good to see you back in action after so long. You have been sorely missed!

Findingmywayji,
the use of the words shoving down was inappropriate, from my own experience I know how useless this is, however even your post shows how widespread this mumbo jumbo is,

However the question remains, we are not going to change the perception of people who ring the Babas and Sants in the back of Des Pardes, however, directing people who may end up in some back street in southall, in front of a matted haired freak, parting with copious amounts of money, to bani, surely is the lessor of the two evils. Do I agree with it, no, I do not, but surely it is no worse than someone opening the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at a random page for direction
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36860

I may not find enlightenment in this lifetime, but I am aware it exists, and aware of how to reach it. For that I am fortunate, how many people have no idea that, if followed to the letter, sikhism will give you that enlightenment. To most, sikhi is a social club, and Waheguru is an abrahamic bearded god looking down and capable of granting any wish or boon, provided the proper prayers and rituals have been carried out, and we are not talking of a minority here, we are the minority!

Are we in fact behaving like the worst kind of intellectuals in looking to deny the common man or woman their interpretation of the faith we follow? After all the way we feel about the subject, given many would disagree with us, is surely our own interpretation.

I do not think any of us has the right to correct anothers interpretation, it may not be the correct one, but in my experience, such questioning and ones own ability to say 'know what, I dont agree with this anymore, I need more' will slowly but surely point in the end towards the truth.

Take the example of someone who is a sikh, but does not have the deep faith and conviction they should have, in despair, one day, they end up at this site, they are desperate for jadoo, for miracles, all this website does is direct them to the appropriate bani that is relevant to their problems, no worse than someone searching the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for bani relating a to a problem they may have, but more importantly, if this person reads and accepts, they will want to read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in its entirety,

To me it is about educating, somehow, the large proportion of sikhs that still have no idea Sikhism is different from being a social club for Punjabis.

Ah I just lost my whole darn post! Curse you back button! Curse you netbook PC with your stupidly close mousepad! *shakes fist*

ah, you'll be needing the lost post mantra then sis

*takes a deep breath* I summarise and try to choose my words carefully.

1. I am ashamed that we whities love to get our hands on something foreign and turn it into some light and fluffy. That's what's happening with the material from my first post. First impressions count for a lot and if the lead article is amongst the first material a newcomer to Sikhi finds, that's what they're going to believe. I think that's putting them at an unfair disadvantage.

2. This commercialisation leads to a bunch of khalsa-looking converts who think magic mantras are the height of Sikhi, and they preach that to others, and they replace Sikh history with their own.

3. It reflects badly on Sikhs, especially white Sikhs. It is already difficult for a white Sikh (not unlike myself) to be taken seriously by Punjabi Sikhs. They think we are interested in yoga and magic mantras and basically taking all the practicality out of what is a fairly basic and rational way of life and injecting a bunch of light and love hearts and additional rituals and all the shiny stuff us Westerners really seem to love. We can only hope the fad fades quickly (but I think it's only just starting...).

4. That said, there are lots of white Sikhs who have made great contributions to Sikhi these days (like that big teddy bear Guruka Singh we all just want to hug!).

Harry bhaji, you said:

and later

I think there are two themes running in this thread, and they are the same just different colours!

But you can't educate without correcting or dispelling myths. And I personally feel the material in the lead post is unnecessarily perpetuating misleading information. It is using Gurbani to do what Guru Nanak strictly preached against! You might as well engrave Ik Oankar on the side of pint glasses and make a line of hair colouring products and call it "Khalsa Colour" (oohh, quick, TM that!!).

It's like Christians promoting the use of Bible passages just like you would as a witch casting a magic spell!

But what can you do except hope these people either look deeper for the Sikhi or let go of these mantras quickly.

Nice one brother

Bhenji, I agree with you 100%,

I would however like to comment on the rationality behind web sites like this, in punjabi culture, if there is something we do not like, or agree with, we will debate it, but not come to any conclusion. All conclusions are possible, and nothing definitive is done about it, although one conclusion may be the best and most intelligent, it will not be concluded as a conclusion.

examples include,

marijuana and nihangs
Caste system marriages
superstitions
rituals

ALL those things go on in some Punjabi Gurudwaras , the world is an imperfect place, what do you do, lock out all the people that toe a certain line, isnt the constant revision of the SRM a sign that things do change, and not always for the better?

I do not think anything reflects badly on anyone, it is up to us to take out the good and the truth from even the dog turd, instead of focusing on the obvious and the negative
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36860

I watched a white sikh video on Nihangs, possibly from the same stable, these people are known as the chardi kala jatha! they concluded that marijuana use was common in war in sikh nihangs, and that the use today is from that tradition, they concluded that it was ok to be used in a time of war, but not 6 times a day when not at war.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36860

OK fair enough, not sure I agree with it, but at least it has concluded their thoughts on nihangs and marijuana to some satisfaction for all concerned, whereas we punjabis tend to carrying on doing things we know to be wrong, whilst all the time saying, 'we shouldnt do this, but hey we are not perfect' after all Raju is a khatri, and we cannot marry him to a Jat can we now. There are words for people like us, in the UK they are called NIMBYS

I agree with everything as long as it is

Not In My Back Yard

Ishna ji, if you are scripting a longish post, the advisable thing would be to write in the notepad or word-pad and cut paste. Also added this suggestion in the quick reply box.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36860

All the best!