Existence of Abrahamic God

This recent thread got me thinking. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-t...indu-gods.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/36336-existence-of-abrahamic-god.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

1. Are YHVH (Jewish God), the Trinity (Christian God) and Allah (Muslim God-no prizes for guessing!) the same God? I've always thought so since they all share common history, mythology and trace their roots to Abraham.

2. If you subscribe to the idea that gods and goddesses like Shiva and Durga are (or have been) part of creation, do you think the Abrahamic God is on the same level as all other gods and goddesses? Or do you think there is something special about this particular god?

Thanks
Ish

 
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With Waheguru's Grace, the Almighty, The One and Many...

Ishna ji realize that all Forms come from the Formless. In this sense, all these Gods can be called demi-Gods. They are not the complete story. Shiva, Rama, Hari, Krishna, Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Allah. All these Gods that we conjure up, even Waheguru, are demi-gods (don't hit me yet). Because none of them are that One God. They point towards God. And because they do so, they are the One God, Waheguru. So in a sense, none of the Gods that any of us imagines is the real deal... and yet it is the real deal. Through those forms the One God is realized. This realization is infinite, never-ending realization. However, at any point if we stop and claim we have found God then realize that we only have a "demi-God" in our hands... (meditate on this)

There is an analogy with handicapped people and an elephant. We are all handicapped in a sense so this analogy works. So the handicapped people are all in a room with this elephant.

The deaf one listens to the elephant and says he is quiet. The blind one sees the elephant and says there is nothing there. The mute one talks to the elephant and says there is no response... wait...

That's not the analogy. I had it backwards.

Ok *takes a big breath* handicapped and the elephant in the room.

They are all just blind now.

One feels the elephant's tail and says I have got a tail. Another feels the elephant's trunk and says I feel a trunk. Another feels the elephant's underside and says "I know it wasn't raining but if it rains, I am good to go guys." Another finds himself on top of the elephant and says what a bigas* m*********er! wait...

wait!

No no no

That doesn't seem right.

Ishna ji, you and I can see! So what is the need for analogies with handicapped people?

We can both see. That's how we made it to the forum. So now we know that we can see.

Right? Yes of course.

Ok I grab the trunk and say it's a trunk. You grab the tail and say that you have his tail...

Hold on... that can't be right either.

How did this elephant get through the door?

Ok forget the elephant, there was a snake in the room...


and everyone left the room.

ਟੋਡੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਕੀ
टोडी बाणी भगतां की
Todī baṇī bẖagṯāʼn kī
Todee, The Word Of The Devotees:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਿਰਵਾ ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
कोई बोलै निरवा कोई बोलै दूरि ॥
Ko▫ī bolai nirvā ko▫ī bolai ḏūr.
Some say that He is near, and others say that He is far away.
ਜਲ ਕੀ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਚਰੈ ਖਜੂਰਿ ॥੧॥
जल की माछुली चरै खजूरि ॥१॥
Jal kī mācẖẖulī cẖarai kẖajūr. ||1||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
We might just as well say that the fish climbs out of the water and up the tree. ||1||
ਕਾਂਇ ਰੇ ਬਕਬਾਦੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥
कांइ रे बकबादु लाइओ ॥
Kāʼn▫e re bakbāḏ lā▫i▫o.
Why do you speak such nonsense?
ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਿਨਹਿ ਛਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिनि हरि पाइओ तिनहि छपाइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jin har pā▫i▫o ṯinėh cẖẖapā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who has found the Lord, keeps quiet about it. ||1||Pause||
ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਬੇਦੁ ਬਖਾਨੈ ॥
पंडितु होइ कै बेदु बखानै ॥
Pandiṯ ho▫e kai beḏ bakẖānai.
Those who become Pandits, religious scholars, recite the Vedas,
ਮੂਰਖੁ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਰਾਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੨॥੧॥
मूरखु नामदेउ रामहि जानै ॥२॥१॥
Mūrakẖ nāmḏe▫o rāmėh jānai. ||2||1||
but foolish Naam Dayv knows only the Lord. ||2||1||

(Ok now hit me. Go on, just beat me up for not listening to Bhagat Namdev ji.)

WOW...Ishna and myslef just thanked Bhagat ji simultaneously !! Gods work ha ha

Lol !! Great post Bhagat bhaji, thanks for taking the time! It wasn't entirely what I wanted to hear (the part about Waheguru, just me looking for the easy way out) but you hit the nail on the head. This is the second time you've managed to point out what I know from Gurbani but haven't applied to my everyday mind. Like when I've read thr gurbani I understand but it doesn't stay in my mind, and when someone (ie you) point it out it's like du'h, I already knew that! *facepalm*

Ishna ji,

I don't know much about Islam so I can't comment on that, other than the fact that Muslims sometimes call Jews and Christians "people of the Book" which makes me think they identify with them in some way.

As for Christianity and Judaism, the main holy book of the Jews (the Torah) is the same as the first five chapters of the Christian holy book (the Bible). Yes, the two deities are one and the same. Both religions understand it in similar but not completely identical ways.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

Christians and Jews believe that their deity is the creator of everything, not just a part of nature. They do not believe in the existence of demi-gods.

My personal opinion, if all these religions worship the one creator of the universe, then by definition that can only be one entity - the creator of the universe is the creator of the universe, no matter what name you wish to call it.

Adding to Bhagat Singh's analogy, God is like a vast stained glass window, so big that a person can only see one little part of it at a time. One group might say the window is blue. Another group might say it is red or yellow or green... but it is all part of the same window.

Ishnabhenji,


when I read the bible many many years ago, I was struck by how angry god is. The abrahamic god seems to be at odds with the creator that we call god. I personally have never believed that all religions end up at the same place. And even if they did, I would want to learn through understanding and love, not fear. My father used to say to me, he never understood the term god-fearing, as he wanted to love god, not fear him.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

A lot of religions place emphasis on doing things without question, with the consequences of not doing, being retribution, and to be in fear of that, as a way of life.

I cannot agree with anything other than a relationship with the creator based on love, respect and gratitude. The creator I know is a patient father, happy to give advice, but equally happy for his children to find their own way, he never gets angry, and he never burns bridges.

The creator I believe in, has risen above a lot of the personality traits that the abrahamic god seems to have, I find the abrahamic god quite 'human' in terms of feelings and actions, but thats just me , and I am always happy to be corrected

If we can understand the CREATOR as envisaged in Gurbani then we can have better
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
views for God and Goddesses.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
We should carefully give a deep thinking to the aspect of CREATOR in Gurbani. We can find that the CREATOR in Gurbani is not FORMLESS as we take it. The CREATOR in Gurbani has a FORM which is invisible and specific.
The above fact of Gurbani is one of the reasons to understand that There is no concept of GOD in Gurbani.{There are other reasons too}
Thus from Gurbani we understand that the whole Universe is Creation from a CREATOR of definite FORM.
We can discuss this as we proceed ahead.

Prakash.S.Bagga

Harry ji,
Meditate on your words of wisdom for some time, there is much more there that you are missing out on. Do this now before continuing. Just go off into another room and contemplate your own words.

When you come back. Wait you have not left. GO NOW

Some say he is loving. Some say he gets angry.
Some say he is a creator. Some say he is a destroyer.
Some say he is. Some say he is not.
Some say he is Formless. Some say he is a Form but invisible and specific.

Happy meditating.

...

Keep meditating...

You are absolutely right. The Abrahamic God sounds too human to be true. On the other hand, what you say does not sound like a human at all. Father? what is a father?

I think I should just leave the forum or I am going to have way too many people hitting me.

The Abrahamic God, (though common to Muslim, Christians, Jews i.e. Abrahamic religions) is metaphysically different in descriptions in each of them.
-In Jewish faith, the God is like a mighty Lord sitting on the heavenly throne seven layers above the living space. The fundamental quality of the Jewish God (YHWH or Yahweh) is his(?) hostility towards the Gentiles(non jews) and the recognition of Jews as the chosen race(Even up to the extent when the Jews massacre the Gentiles, the YHWH doesn't seem to mind at all!), that's why every Prophet (even Jesus!) came from this race. The only way the Gentiles can be appealing to the Lord is by submission to the Jews.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

-In Christianity the same God(YHWH) is expanded to form a Trinity. He too, considers Jews as his chosen race and they automatically enter the heaven on the judement day though the Gentiles too can enter the heaven after being baptised in the name of Jesus who forms a part of the Trinity and is said to have paid the ransom for our sins in advance. The God, in Christianity is much more calm and good tempered and punishes less often, even allows the Antichrist to kill Christians during the Tribulation (period before the judgment, is said to be yet to come) and keeps the punishment part suspended till the judgment day.

-In Islam, The concept of YHWH is totally rejected and replaced by Allah. A lofty and mighty, bad tempered God, who punishes the qaafirs(non Muslims, literally False men), at even the slightest provocation. He sends earthquakes and calamities on the Earth because he is angry with the residents of the Earth on not accepting Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad. Considers only Muslims as men and the rest as lower animals, not even worthy of praying before him.