Existence of Abrahamic God

This is a sidetrack,but years ago, my father, had bought his first video camera, and after dinner, made us all sit in the front room and sing a song. My late Uncle, me and my brother sang a pop song, my Auntie sang Simon and garfunkel, my dad sang Tom Jones, my mother, an indian song that escapes me, and my late grandfather, a man much ahead of his time, sang an indian song that also escaped me, but was mellow, haunting and beautiful to listen to, it was chalo ek Bar phir se,
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ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
रागु धनासरी महला १ ॥
Rāg ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 1.
Raag Dhanaasree, First Mehl:
ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ ॥
गगन मै थालु रवि चंदु दीपक बने तारिका मंडल जनक मोती ॥
Gagan mai thāl rav cẖanḏ ḏīpak bane ṯārikā mandal janak moṯī.
Upon that cosmic plate of the sky, the sun and the moon are the lamps. The stars and their orbs are the studded pearls.
ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥
धूपु मलआनलो पवणु चवरो करे सगल बनराइ फूलंत जोती ॥१॥
Ḏẖūp mal▫ānlo pavaṇ cẖavro kare sagal banrā▫e fūlanṯ joṯī. ||1||
The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||
ਕੈਸੀ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/36336-existence-of-abrahamic-god.html
कैसी आरती होइ ॥
Kaisī ārṯī ho▫e.
What a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service this is!
ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਰਤੀ ॥
भव खंडना तेरी आरती ॥
Bẖav kẖandnā ṯerī ārṯī.
O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Ceremony of Light.
ਅਨਹਤਾ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੰਤ ਭੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अनहता सबद वाजंत भेरी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Anhaṯā sabaḏ vājanṯ bẖerī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad is the vibration of the temple drums. ||1||Pause||
ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ ॥
सहस तव नैन नन नैन हहि तोहि कउ सहस मूरति नना एक तोही ॥
Sahas ṯav nain nan nain hėh ṯohi ka▫o sahas mūraṯ nanā ek ṯohī.
You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.
ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥
सहस पद बिमल नन एक पद गंध बिनु सहस तव गंध इव चलत मोही ॥२॥
Sahas paḏ bimal nan ek paḏ ganḏẖ bin sahas ṯav ganḏẖ iv cẖalaṯ mohī. ||2||
You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||


ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
सभ महि जोति जोति है सोइ ॥
Sabẖ mėh joṯ joṯ hai so▫e.
Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light.
ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
तिस दै चानणि सभ महि चानणु होइ ॥
Ŧis ḏai cẖānaṇ sabẖ mėh cẖānaṇ ho▫e.
By this Illumination, that Light is radiant within all.
ਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
गुर साखी जोति परगटु होइ ॥
Gur sākẖī joṯ pargat ho▫e.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth.
ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੁ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥
जो तिसु भावै सु आरती होइ ॥३॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai so ārṯī ho▫e. ||3||
That which is pleasing to Him is the lamp-lit worship service. ||3||
ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਮਕਰੰਦ ਲੋਭਿਤ ਮਨੋ ਅਨਦਿਨ ਮੋਹਿ ਆਹੀ ਪਿਆਸਾ ॥
हरि चरण कवल मकरंद लोभित मनो अनदिनो मोहि आही पिआसा ॥
Har cẖaraṇ kaval makranḏ lobẖiṯ mano anḏino mohi āhī pi▫āsā.
My mind is enticed by the honey-sweet Lotus Feet of the Lord. Day and night, I thirst for them.
ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜਲੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਰਿੰਗ ਕਉ ਹੋਇ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਇ ਵਾਸਾ ॥੪॥੩॥
क्रिपा जलु देहि नानक सारिंग कउ होइ जा ते तेरै नाइ वासा ॥४॥३॥
Kirpā jal ḏėh Nānak sāring ka▫o ho▫e jā ṯe ṯerai nā▫e vāsā. ||4||3||
Bestow the Water of Your Mercy upon Nanak, the thirsty song-bird, so that he may come to dwell in Your Name. ||4||3||

‪Aarti Sahib - guru nanak dev ji - sikh prayer‬‏ - YouTube

‪Aarti Sahib - guru nanak dev ji - sikh prayer‬‏ - YouTube

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
सिरीरागु महला १ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 1.
Siree Raag, First Mehl:
ਇਕੁ ਤਿਲੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਡਾ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
इकु तिलु पिआरा वीसरै रोगु वडा मन माहि ॥
Ik ṯil pi▫ārā vīsrai rog vadā man māhi.
Forgetting the Beloved, even for a moment, the mind is afflicted with terrible diseases.
ਕਿਉ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
किउ दरगह पति पाईऐ जा हरि न वसै मन माहि ॥
Ki▫o ḏargėh paṯ pā▫ī▫ai jā har na vasai man māhi.
How can honor be attained in His Court, if the Lord does not dwell in the mind?
ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥
गुरि मिलिऐ सुखु पाईऐ अगनि मरै गुण माहि ॥१॥
Gur mili▫ai sukẖ pā▫ī▫ai agan marai guṇ māhi. ||1||
Meeting with the Guru, peace is found. The fire is extinguished in His Glorious Praises. ||1||
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਸਾਰਿ ॥
मन रे अहिनिसि हरि गुण सारि ॥
Man re ahinis har guṇ sār.
O mind, enshrine the Praises of the Lord, day and night.
ਜਿਨ ਖਿਨੁ ਪਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇ ਜਨ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिन खिनु पलु नामु न वीसरै ते जन विरले संसारि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jin kẖin pal nām na vīsrai ṯe jan virle sansār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who does not forget the Naam, for a moment or even an instant-how rare is such a person in this world! ||1||Pause||
ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਈਐ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥
जोती जोति मिलाईऐ सुरती सुरति संजोगु ॥
Joṯī joṯ milā▫ī▫ai surṯī suraṯ sanjog.
When one's light merges into the Light, and one's intuitive consciousness is joined with the Intuitive Consciousness,
ਹਿੰਸਾ ਹਉਮੈ ਗਤੁ ਗਏ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੋਗੁ ॥
हिंसा हउमै गतु गए नाही सहसा सोगु ॥
Hinsā ha▫umai gaṯ ga▫e nāhī sahsā sog.
then one's cruel and violent instincts and egotism depart, and skepticism and sorrow are taken away.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥੨॥
गुरमुखि जिसु हरि मनि वसै तिसु मेले गुरु संजोगु ॥२॥
Gurmukẖ jis har man vasai ṯis mele gur sanjog. ||2||
The Lord abides within the mind of the Gurmukh, who merges in the Lord's Union, through the Guru. ||2||
ਕਾਇਆ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਜੇ ਕਰੀ ਭੋਗੇ ਭੋਗਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
काइआ कामणि जे करी भोगे भोगणहारु ॥
Kā▫i▫ā kāmaṇ je karī bẖoge bẖogaṇhār.
If I surrender my body like a bride, the Enjoyer will enjoy me.
ਤਿਸੁ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਨ ਕੀਜਈ ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਚਲਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
तिसु सिउ नेहु न कीजई जो दीसै चलणहारु ॥
Ŧis si▫o nehu na kīj▫ī jo ḏīsai cẖalaṇhār.
Do not make love with one who is just a passing show.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਵਹਿ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੇਜ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
गुरमुखि रवहि सोहागणी सो प्रभु सेज भतारु ॥३॥
Gurmukẖ ravėh sohāgaṇī so parabẖ sej bẖaṯār. ||3||
The Gurmukh is ravished like the pure and happy bride on the Bed of God, her Husband. ||3||
ਚਾਰੇ ਅਗਨਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਮਰੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਲੁ ਪਾਇ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
चारे अगनि निवारि मरु गुरमुखि हरि जलु पाइ ॥
Cẖāre agan nivār mar gurmukẖ har jal pā▫e.
The Gurmukh puts out the four fires, with the Water of the Lord's Name.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸਿਆ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਅਘਾਇ ॥
अंतरि कमलु प्रगासिआ अम्रितु भरिआ अघाइ ॥
Anṯar kamal pargāsi▫ā amriṯ bẖari▫ā agẖā▫e.
The lotus blossoms deep within the heart, and filled with Ambrosial Nectar, one is satisfied.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਮੀਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੨੦॥
नानक सतगुरु मीतु करि सचु पावहि दरगह जाइ ॥४॥२०॥
Nānak saṯgur mīṯ kar sacẖ pāvahi ḏargėh jā▫e. ||4||20||
O Nanak, make the True Guru your friend; going to His Court, you shall obtain the True Lord. ||4||20|| Guru Granth Sahib Page 21

Prakash Singh ji, perhaps you should start a thread like this. Post the shabads and perhaps do a small viakhya of them.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
I think that would be helpful for everyone here.

Harry bhaji

Thank you for summarising what you believe to be differences between Abrahamic God and Waheguru.

The all-encompassing creative force, the Ek Oankar, was a massive attraction for me when I was first learning about Sikhi. One of my favourite private moments now is when I jap Mul Mantar and put massive concentration into "Aad such, jugaad such, hai bhi such, Nanak hosi bhi such" and realise how eternal and all-pervading this power is in its totallity, my mind nearly explodes with rapture.

However, I'm constantly having to remind myself that Waheguru is more than just another god or version of Abrahamic God... it is comforting for me as a human to want to reach out to a personified God who loves me, who hates my enemies, who listens attentively to my prayers and petitions for help with whatever my problem might be, and keeps score of my good actions to reward me when I die.

This doesn't seem to be the truth when it comes to Sikhism. I'm hearing that Waheguru, being a creative force waaaaay beyond any human comprehension, you realise that It doesn't love you the way your ego wants to be loved... It doesn't hate my enemies because It doesn't detect any enemies... It doesn't listen to my words saying "please help me on this path" because It is so far beyond that (I'm asking myself for the help), or "please help so-and-so with their problem"... It doesn't keep score, my actions take me closer to that divine frequency (or further away) as it is meant to happen. The only thing between me and liberation is when I get so close that the creative force reabsorbes me into It... or am I already absorbed and liberation is when I realise that... hmm...

At least, that's where my mind is at right now.

And I'm really struggling within myself these days to keep myself motivated that this ultimate Truth is enough to satisfy me spiritually, since the allure of the Abrahamic God with his love and loyalty to "his people" sure can be tempting sometimes. Someone who will listen to my prayers. Someone to take the burden of responsibility off me, since Sikhi puts the responsibility squarely on the individual, it can get a bit heavy sometimes I think.

Phew, feels better to get that mess out of my brain at last, been mulling over it for a couple of weeks now.

Ishna Bhenji

Please ask yourself why the abrahamic god is so easy to sound so tempting, and why waheguru seems to offer so little in comparison, one sounds so much easier to sell!! Sikhs have never gone on crusades, it is not our way to try and convert the world, our message does not need to sound attractive to pull in the masses, that is what the baba's are there for.

I share your need to be loved, to be listened to, to have a score of my good deeds, waheguru may be unable to do that, but the sangat and the creation of waheguru can, I love you, I listen to you, through your writings I can get a measure of how good you can be, We all love you! When you feed a dog, and see the love in its eyes, it is Waheguru, the whole world is filled with life, and every now and then one of those forms will look at you, and you will see Waheguru.

Again the personification you speak of is, I believe in the sangat, not any individual, but the whole, that is the validation, the love, its in your family, your husband, your step children.

Ishnabhenji, I sense the mood of the ascetic, the one who is willing to bet the house on spiritual satisfaction, I have been there many times myself, please don't bet the house, that is not what sikhism is about, first and foremost you are an individual with your own life, the love of your husband, family and friends, we are not for caves and mountain tops, we are for using the gift of spiritual knowledge to live in the real world, with all its problems and challenges, if its any consolation, its harder than the mountain tops, and anyone who finds themselves winning, as indeed you are, and no one could doubt that, is a million times better than any ascetic who finds salvation on a mountain top

Thanks for your support, brother. Your insight is amazing, I think you're a lot more full of light than you think you are! You're spot on, the mountain tops sound darn fine today! Thanks for the reminder.

Ishna ji the same goes for you: Spiritual satisfaction can be obtained right here, right now, while being with family. One need not even go in the next room, let alone mountain tops and caves.

Sometimes it's with the Abrahamic God, sometimes it isn't. Next thing you know it will be elsewhere.

Ek Oankar is all-encompassing, yet the mind still makes space to leave something out it, in this case, Abrahamic God. Or is still stuck in the stage or bigger-smaller.

Drop all notions if only for a moment. All-encompassing can only come to dwell as all-encompassing when the mind is emptied of concepts, thoughts, etc. (The underlying meaning of 'concept' is "This is separate from that.")

Drop the above notions, as what I or Harry ji has said can instantly become a belief.

Just drop mental activity for a second or two when you are in your family. Just look at them as if you all have just arrived on Planet Earth. You have the power to do so and you are ready to do it now. Do share how that moment goes.

Items removed from this thread for the following reasons:

1. There is no logical or gurmat based reason to continue discussing alternative English transliterations of words in Gurbani as if they had more significance than they have in the original Gurmukhi. Poster has been warned over and over to cease and desist. For example, GuRU is a transliteration and there is no special importance that cannot be found in the original text.

2. The dictionary by Professor Surinder Singh Kohli in no way supports discovery of these alternative transliterations as suggested in a recent post now deleted. I have resorted to that dictionary every day for 2 years, and believe it or not, I know what I am talking about.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

3. The thread has gone off topic once too often.

4. A new thread on the subject of How Sweet is Waheguru! What Waheguru Can Do and How One Can Comprehend has been graciously started by forum member Ambarsaria ji. Please direct related comments to that thread. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat...tml#post150127
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

So this is about an Abrahamic God. Thanks.

Well i've been working on my perspective today as suggested by Bhagat ji, I've had a couple of moments where I've felt some simple peace, i say simple because when I try to settle my mental activity the peace comes without effort. But only for a moment. I have a long way to go and not feeling particularly connected currently. Will bounce back soon and know exactly what I need-to read Gurbani instead of reading forums!!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36336

Thanks again for the discussion... We'll see how I go with this recent fascination with Abrahamic God!

Waheguru ji ki fateh...

Ish