Professor Darshan Singh: RSS Wanted Nanakshai Calendar Changes in 2003

Narayanjot Kaur · #1 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 02:17 AM

This message was forwarded to me via a mailgroup.

"Guru Fateh Khalsa Ji,

Prof. Darshan Singh is always alert about the challenges to Sikh Nation. This video is few years old but it shows that Sudarshan kumar chief RSS had intentions to make changes in Nanakshai calander many years back and Singh sahib warned them you can see that in this video."

YouTube- Prof. Darshan Singh Chellange to RSS

kds1980 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 02:58 AM

LOL He was sitting with Sarna who is no less corrupt or bad than Badal and also a congress stooge.At that time BJP was at its peak and everybody was thinking that Atal Bihari will win 2004 election.may be he was also doing propaganda for congress so some sikhs would vote for congress

Narayanjot Kaur · #3 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 03:00 AM

kanwardeep singh ji

Do you think that sitting with Sarna affected his thought processes? As it turns out, SGPC leadership in the person of Avtar Singh admits that changes are meant to appease Sant Samaj. And RSS has been romancing Sant Samaj for some time now.

Disdain for the Congress Party should not cloud analysis of issues before the panth today. And these controversies - not limited to the calendar controversy - have been building. Links to the "saffron agenda" have been lingering in the background.

kds1980 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur

kanwardeep singh ji

Do you think that sitting with Sarna affected his thought processes? As it turns out, SGPC leadership in the person of Avtar Singh admits that changes are meant to appease Sant Samaj. And RSS has been romancing Sant Samaj for some time now.

Disdain for the Congress Party should not cloud analysis of issues before the panth today. And these controversies - not limited to the calendar controversy - have been building. Links to the "saffron agenda" have been lingering in the background.

Well Sant samaj has its own thinking and they to are responsible for divisions in sikhs.But on the other hand its also true they are quite powerful in sikhism.

Anyway what I don't like from the day one I started doing internet is that fake fear of RSS is incited in sikhs.RSS is coming,RSS is going to destroy sikhs blah blah .The fear is so high among sikhs outside India that anybody who does not agree with their thinking on net is an RSS agent.On the other hand I don't see RSS SUCH A big threat to sikhism.They themselves are very much failure in entire India and despite repeated attempts they were/are not able to convince Indians to vote for them,so why there is so much RSS phobia among sikhs? who is spreading it ? and what is motive behind it that sikhs are afraid of such a failed organisation

Narayanjot Kaur · #5 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 03:49 AM

Thanks for the reply

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwardeep Singh

Well Sant samaj has its own thinking and they to are responsible for divisions in sikhs.But on the other hand its also true they are quite powerful in sikhism.

True and they are so powerful that they have managed to manage Badal, unless we want to think that he is not interested in their money and the votes they control.

They are so powerful that the Nanakshai Calendar was amended in order to appease them according to Avtar Singh. This was supposed to "unify" the panth. That comment had to seem ridiculous to anyone who has been following the news for the past 3 years.

And RSS has been romancing them -- that is not a myth and it is not any sort of comment intended to stir up hysterics among Sikhs

Anyway what I don't like from the day one I started doing internet is that fake fear of RSS is incited in sikhs.RSS is coming,RSS is going to destroy sikhs blah blah .The fear is so high among sikhs outside India that anybody who does not agree with their thinking on net is an RSS agent.

This is not true. "The fear is so high among sikhs outside India that anybody who does not agree with their thinking on the net is an RSS agent."

That kind of mud-slinging is common on several Internet forums where mud-slinging is part of the culture. Anyone who does not agree with them is also an atheist, a communist, a stooge of Kala Afghana, and the list of names is endless. This is not an issue for "Sikhs outside India" alone.
News articles from inside India have reported similar reservations.

Any individual or group should be free to point out the divisive politics of RSS without being grouped together with mud-slingers. There is a background threat to RSS as they lobby to form coalitions with other political organizations and parties. They do that. It is real.

On the other hand I don't see RSS SUCH A big threat to sikhism.They themselves are very much failure in entire India and despite repeated attempts they were/are not able to convince Indians to vote for them,so why there is so much RSS phobia among sikhs? who is spreading it ? and what is motive behind it that sikhs are afraid of such a failed organisation

This video is dated to 2003 -- when RSS had a much stronger public presence. And that presence was a public image of violence in many instances.

And Sikhs outside of India have more than one legitimate reason to express grave concerns that the face of Sikhism is being changed by SGPC at the behest of Badal and his associates. More than once I have noted that the religious freedom of Sikhs outside of India is less than that of adherents from any other group because Sikhism is now controlled by a political process that is wiping away the unique identity of Sikhi. Who and what is a Sikh? Does the answer depend on Badal? That is only one reason from the high level of distress. What other religion has its doctrines and practices revamped according to the election cycle in another country?

kds1980 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 04:18 AM

Quote:

This video is dated to 2003 -- when RSS had a much stronger public presence. And that presence was a public image of violence in many instances.

And Sikhs outside of India have more than one legitimate reason to express grave concerns that the face of Sikhism is being changed by SGPC at the behest of Badal and his associates. More than once I have noted that the religious freedom of Sikhs outside of India is less than that of adherents from any other group because Sikhism is now controlled by a political process that is wiping away the unique identity of Sikhi. Who and what is a Sikh? Does the answer depend on Badal? That is only one reason from the high level of distress. What other religion has its doctrines and practices revamped according to the election cycle in another country?

Narayanjot ji

First of all Badal and co does not decide who and what is a sikh.It is well known fact that Badal was in favour of sehajdhari sikhs recognised but because of pressure from sant samaj
SGPC did not do that.

Secondly I don't know How Badal affect the lives of sikhs outside India.If you are pointing towards Hukamnaama's then I am sorry to say even Gurdwara's in India don't obey them
so Sikhs outside India are free to do what they want.

Quote:

What other religion has its doctrines and practices revamped according to the election cycle in another country?

There are 2 points on this I want to say

1)In sikhism there is democracy in Gurdwara's.which other religion hold elections? We all know that democracy is not good in many circumstances.

2)Which other religion has its 99% followers from one ethnicity I think very few so comparision of sikhism with other religions is not O.K.

also many times policies of sikhism will be formed on the basis of where majority live i:e Punjab.Whether the sikhs living in other parts of India or world will like it or not but Truth is numbers hold the power

Narayanjot Kaur · #7 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 04:53 AM

Kanwardeep Singh ji

With deep respect I must react,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwardeep Singh

Narayanjot ji

First of all Badal and co does not decide who and what is a sikh.

Badal and co may not decide openly who and what is a sikh. Rather they control the SGPC and the Akal Takht who decide what Sikhs should believe, who is a heretic, and the contents of the Sikh Rehat Marayada. This covers a lot. Maybe a thread is needed to explore all of that. So in effect Badal and co do decide covertly as they appoint and sack SGPC members and jathedars. And it is all legal.

It is well known fact that Badal was in favour of sehajdhari sikhs recognised but because of pressure from sant samaj
SGPC did not do that.

This says a lot. Badal was openly in favor of sehajdhari sikhs, but behind the scenes he caved to sant samaj. He is a politician. Sant Samaj has votes and cash. If that is not the case then why have there been so many stories of Badal and his courtship of every so many babas in the past year? SGPC does not take any action without Badal's political interests in mind.

Secondly I don't know How Badal affect the lives of sikhs outside India.If you are pointing towards Hukamnaama's then I am sorry to say even Gurdwara's in India don't obey them
so Sikhs outside India are free to do what they want.

That is interesting. Then why have hukamnamas at all. Is it play-acting? If it is play-acting why?

There are 2 points on this I want to say

1)In sikhism there is democracy in Gurdwara's.which other religion hold elections? We all know that democracy is not good in many circumstances.

Again that is not completely the case. Often court battles have to be waged to challenge corrupt elections in gurdwaras. And other religions do hold elections and/or have democratic processes for governance. Many Protestant denominations elect elders who make decisions regarding a particular congregations. The Society of Friends is notable in this regard but others do as well.

2)Which other religion has its 99% followers from one ethnicity I think very few so comparision of sikhism with other religions is not O.K.

Kanwardeep Singh ji, It is always "OK" to compare religions. Sikhism is compared all the time in this forum, other forums, and in comparative religion forums, courses, courses of study, with other religions. To say it is not OK means taking Sikhism off the table in terms of being able to discuss and analyze. Sikhism has not particular privilege in this regard.

But I think you have put your finger on something very important. Sikhism is a religion with members who are predominately Punjabi or Punjabi in origin. How many times have we heard that the message of Sikhism is universal? If that is the case, then the doors of our minds have to open up and the perspectives of the non-Punjabi should be taken seriously. Otherwise one is saying -- all non-Punjabi Sikhs stand quietly, the real Sikhs are having a discussion, and wait for the Punjabi answer. What other conclusion can I draw?

also many times policies of sikhism will be formed on the basis of where majority live i:e Punjab.Whether the sikhs living in other parts of India or world will like it or not but Truth is numbers hold the power

Raw numbers do not hold the power. The numbers who vote, who organize, who advocate are the ones who exert power. That is in part why the Diaspora is not taking the calendar change passively.

Aman Singh · #8 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwardeep Singh

LOL He was sitting with Sarna who is no less corrupt or bad than Badal and also a congress stooge.At that time BJP was at its peak and everybody was thinking that Atal Bihari will win 2004 election.may be he was also doing propaganda for congress so some sikhs would vote for congress

Dear All

Cool Down!

What may or may not have been the political scenes in 2003 is we do not know... Let us not get into speculation...

Even if he may have been invited by Sarna, Prof. Darshan had a specific topic in mind and in this video and he did not deviate from it... It would be quite interesting as to how Sant Samaj would have dealt with this message from Mr. Sudarshan besides seeking help from likes of deceptive G.S. Lambah & Co.

On a sidenote, even if speech of Prof Darshan may have politically helped Congress to win back a majority in Delhi... its more like favoring the lesser of two evils... rather than completely alienating themselves from Indian political scene altogether, Delhi Sikhs may have found a better political allay in Congress rather than fanatical RSS.

My political sense is poorest of poor. Since 1984, I have voted only once in the Indian political scene and voted for SAD... and they lost...

Politics is such a dirty game after all...

Just my two cents...

Gurfateh!

kds1980 · #9 (**permalink**) 06-Jan-2010, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Badal and co may not decide openly who and what is a sikh. Rather they control the SGPC and the Akal Takht who decide what Sikhs should believe, who is a heretic, and the contents of the Sikh Rehat Marayada

Its true that Badal have lot of influence on SGPC

Quote:

This says a lot. Badal was openly in favor of sehajdhari sikhs, but behind the scenes he caved to sant samaj. He is a politician. Sant Samaj has votes and cash. If that is not the case then why have there been so many stories of Badal and his courtship of every so many babas in the past year? SGPC does not take any action without Badal's political interests in mind.

How can we say that Badal was behind sant samaj at that time.?Infact it was pro congress DSGPC which was proudly saying that we stopped the entry of sehajdhari sikhs

Quote:

That is interesting. Then why have hukamnamas at all. Is it play-acting? If it is play-acting why?

We have hukamnama's because in theory all sects should have to obey it but the problem is that whenever any hukamnama does not suit them they reject it.Meat issue is a classic example of that.Despite pro jhatka hukamnama many sects clearly propagated vegetarianism

Quote:

Kanwardeep Singh ji, It is always "OK" to compare religions. Sikhism is compared all the time in this forum, other forums, and in comparative religion

Its ok to compare but we have to look which other religion which we can compare when we
compare functioning of sikhism.Its obvious we cannot compare sikhism with billion plus population religions like islam,christianity and even hinduism.There functioning,problems
are obviously going to be different.You mentioned about elections of one country obviously in these big religions 1 country is not of much importance