Further action for one who have changed Ardas in Finland

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I do not think you understand what you write. May be because of your anger your posts are becoming less cohesive.

FYI, WHOLE HUMANITY includes ALL. NO exception. But you are famous for contradicting yourself in the same sentence.

Yes, I belong to the Khalsa brotherhood where ALL belong to the ONE and are my brothers and mates. That is the whole essence of taking Khandei di Pahul so one can get rid of one's biases and prejudices and embrace all as the children of Guru Gobind Singh. It is a shame you reject the way our 10th Guru taught us to. That is why you are proud to flaunt your hatred towards those who disagree with you, hence not following the commandments of the 10th Guru which is shamefully sad.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Sikhi does not believe in any Goddess called Durga or any other GODs or GODDESSES but IK ONG KAAR. However Hindus do.

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

Finally you are coming to a point, What did panj piaras instruct when you took khnade bate di pahul? What banis did they tell you to recite?

Plaese answer this.


Guru sahib wrote to Aurangzeb that he is a butt shikan ( idol breaker) and not an idol worshipper. That is what the subject line of Dasam Granths says.
ਅਨਹਦ ਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਬਾਨੀ ॥
अनहद रूप अनाहद बानी ॥
He is Limitless Entity and hath infinite celestial strain.

ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨਿ ਜਿਹ ਬਸਤ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥
चरन सरनि जिह बसत भवानी ॥
The goddess Durga takes refuge at His Feet and abides there.

Akal ustat Dasam Granth sahib

Then in chandi di vaar guru sahib writesਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
PAURI

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
खंडा प्रिथमै साज कै जिन सभ सैसारु उपाइआ ॥
At first the Lord created the double-edged sword and then He created the whole world.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
ब्रहमा बिसनु महेस साजि कुदरति दा खेलु रचाइ बणाइआ ॥
He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and then created the play of Nature.

ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹਾ ਗਗਨਿ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
सिंधु परबत मेदनी बिनु थम्हा गगनि रहाइआ ॥
He created the oceans, mountains and the earth made the sky stable without columns.

ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
सिरजे दानो देवते तिन अंदरि बादु रचाइआ ॥
He created the demons and gods and caused strife between them.

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥
The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;

Chandi di vaar, dasam granth

How can Durga be bhagauti when above verses sya it otehrwise? Please provide verse to the contrary.

Inder Singh ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/25505-further-action-one-who-have-changed.html

Guru Fateh.

All what is mentioned above is Hindu mythology which has nothing to do with Sikhi and no one knows who wrote that and for what purpose was it written? Perhaps by some Hindus to instill Hindtuva in the minds of people like you. Our Gurus have explained what Sikhi is all about in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

You have mentioned yourself that all that have taken Khandei di Pahul are not your brothers which is contrary to the commandments of our 10th Guru. So it is infutile to talk to you about Khandei di Pahul because those who take it are capable of loving all.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25505

So when you begin to love rather than hate then we can talk about it.

Secondly you are hearing things. I mentioned Durga because you mentioned her as Goddess which you claim Guru Gobind Singh wrote without having any proof.

So when you learn to love your fellow man/woman and shed this anger and hatred towards others then we can start our conversation again. Until then, I can only do Ardaas for sarbat da bhala.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Gurfateh

There are hardly any proof that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written by Sikh Gurus or Bhagat Bani is authentic or say Tenth Master gave Guruship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, if we ignore the other Sikh sources of history and start calling them Brahmanised.

Text by Bhai Desa Singh, Gyani Gyan Singh, Guru Kian Sakhian, Bhai Chupa Singh,Bhai Kesar Singh,Rattan Singh Bhangu etc. talk about the present Ardas while the last one is more explicit. We can say that they are not authantic, Ok we can say Guruship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Given by Tenth Master also is not authentic.

As Shabad Guru was there in the time of Gurus before the Tenth Master, as they also did not give Guruship to text but was given to single bodied Human, then how could Tenth Master do it ?

So Tenth Master giving Guruship to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, is not authentic by logic so far seen above. Further as previous Gurus have done Tenth Also did not give Guruship to five beloved one nor to Guru Panth. Rather as we extrapolate as per pattern taken by previous Guru, Tenth Master also gave Guruship to a Human bodied Single(we have Namdharis claiming Baba Balak Singh, Nirnakaris have some one else,Who know Veer Bhunpinder Singh could be next).

In all this process we did very good thing. As an able intellectual sons and daughter of Tenth Master, we stripped him of any innovative Ideas, he ever took. He did nothing new as his previous Gurus, but if we move backward, we find that First Master did some thing new, so Tenth Master could not anyway do something new as First Master. Akal only knows why?

Not only Tenth Master do something unprecedented but also we strip him of his contribution to make Sikhism unique.

when we think Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as eternal Guru and Sabad Guru, we find that that is nothing separate but manifestation of Akal only(this thing will not be understood by atheists who fight for book or personality of Ten Human forms). so we only remember Akal. What else is sword other then Akal only so when we think of sword, we think of Akal only.

ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਮ ਮਾਲਾ
शसत्र नाम माला
SHATRA NAM MALA

ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥
ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फतह ॥
The Lord is One and the Victory is of the True Guru.

ਅਥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਮ ਮਾਲਾ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਲਿਖਯਤੇ ॥
अथ स्री शसत्र नाम माला पुराण लिखयते ॥
Shastra-Nama Mala Purana (the Rosary of the Names of weapons) is now composed

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਸਹਾਇ ॥ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ॥੧੦॥
स्री भगउती जी सहाइ ॥ पातिशाही ॥१०॥
With the support of the primal power by the Tenth King.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਸਾਂਗ ਸਰੋਹੀ ਸੈਫ ਅਸ ਤੀਰ ਤੁਪਕ ਤਲਵਾਰ ॥ ਸੱਤ੍ਰਾਂਤਕ ਕਵਚਾਂਤਿ ਕਰ ਕਰੀਐ ਰੱਛ ਹਮਾਰ ॥੧॥
सांग सरोही सैफ अस तीर तुपक तलवार ॥ स्त्रांतक कवचांति कर करीऐ ्रछ हमार ॥१॥
O Lord ! Protect us by creating Saang, Sarohi, Saif (Sword), As, Teer (arrow) tupak (gun), Talwaar (sword), and other weapons and armours causing the destruction of the enemies.1.

ਅਸ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਧਾਰਾਧਰੀ ਸੈਲ ਸੂਫ ਜਮਦਾਢ ॥ ਕਵਚਾਂਤਕ ਸੱਤ੍ਰਾਂਤ ਕਰ ਤੇਗ ਤੀਰ ਧਰਬਾਢ ॥੨॥
अस क्रिपान धाराधरी सैल सूफ जमदाढ ॥ कवचांतक स्त्रांत कर तेग तीर धरबाढ ॥२॥
O Lord ! Creat As, Kripan (sword), Dharaddhari, Sail, Soof, Jamaadh, Tegh (saber), Teer (saber), Teer (arrow), Talwar(sward), causing the destruction of armours and enemies.2.

ਅਸ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਖੰਡੋ ਖੜਗ ਤੁਪਕ ਤਬਰ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਸੈਫ ਸਰੋਹੀ ਸੈਹਥੀ ਯਹੈ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪੀਰ ॥੩॥
अस क्रिपान खंडो खड़ग तुपक तबर अरु तीर ॥ सैफ सरोही सैहथी यहै हमारै पीर ॥३॥
As, Kripan (sword), Khanda, Khadag (sword), Tupak (gun), Tabar (hatched), Teer (arrow), Saif (sword), Sarohi and Saihathi, all these are our adorable seniors.3.

ਤੀਰ ਤੁਹੀ ਸੈਹਥੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤਬਰ ਤਲਵਾਰ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਤਿਹਾਰੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਭਏ ਸਿੰਧ ਭਵ ਪਾਰ ॥੪॥
तीर तुही सैहथी तुही तुही तबर तलवार ॥ नाम तिहारो जो जपै भए सिंध भव पार ॥४॥
Thou are the Teer (arrow), Thou are Saihathi, Thou art Tabar (hatchet), and Talwaar (sword); he, who remembers Thy Name crosses the dreadful ocean of existence.4.

ਕਾਲ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੇਗ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕੀ ਆਜੁ ਤੁਹੀ ਜਗਬੀਰ ॥੫॥
काल तुही काली तुही तुही तेग अरु तीर ॥ तुही निशानी जीत की आजु तुही जगबीर ॥५॥
Thou art the KAL (death), thou art the goddess Kali, Thou art the saber and arrow, Thou art the sign of victory today and Thou art the Hero of the world.5.

ਤੁਹੀ ਸੂਲ ਸੈਹਥੀ ਤਬਰ ਤੂੰ ਨਿਖੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਬਾਨ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਟਾਰੀ ਸੇਲ ਸਭ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਕਰਦ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ॥੬॥
तुही सूल सैहथी तबर तूं निखंग अरु बान ॥ तुही कटारी सेल सभ तुमही करद क्रिपान ॥६॥
Thou art the Sool (spike), Saihathi and Tabar (hatched), Thou art the Nikhang and Baan (arrow), Thou art the Kataari, Sel, and all and Thou art the Kard (knife), and Kripaan (sword).6.

ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਸਿਪਰ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਕਵਚ ਨਿਖੰਗ ॥ ਕਵਚਾਂਤਕ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਬਨੇ ਤੁਮ ਬਯਾਪਕ ਸਰਬੰਗ ॥੭॥
शसत्र असत्र तुमही सिपर तुमही कवच निखंग ॥ कवचांतक तुमही बने तुम बयापक सरबंग ॥७॥
Thou art the arms and weapons, Thou art the Nikhang (quiver), and the Kavach (armour); Thou art the destroyer of the armours and Thou art also all pervading.7.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਤੂੰ ਸਭ ਕਾਰਨ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੂੰ ਬਿੱਦਯਾ ਕੋ ਸਾਰ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਉਪਰਾਜਹੀ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਲੇਹੁ ਉਬਾਰ ॥੮॥
स्री तूं सभ कारन तुही तूं बि्दया को सार ॥ तुम सभ को उपराजही तुमही लेहु उबार ॥८॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25505
Thou art the cause of peace and prosperity and the essence of learning; Thou art the creator of all and the redeemer of all.8.

ਤੁਮਹੀ ਦਿਨ ਰਜਨੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਜੀਅਨ ਉਪਾਇ ॥ ਕਉਤਕ ਹੇਰਨ ਕੇ ਨਮਿਤ ਤਿਨ ਮੋ ਬਾਦ ਬਢਾਇ ॥੯॥
तुमही दिन रजनी तुही तुमही जीअन उपाइ ॥ कउतक हेरन के नमित तिन मो बाद बढाइ ॥९॥
Thou art the day and night and Thou art the creator of all the Jivas (beings), causing disputes among them; Thou does all this in order to view Thy own sport.9.
(Chapter one Shashter Naam Mala Puran, glory to Bhagouti)

For Hindus we have Pursha/shiv/kal and Prakrit/shakti/kali as two different thing but for Sikhs all is Akal.
Page 2, Line 9
ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥
गुरु ईसरु गुरु गोरखु बरमा गुरु पारबती माई ॥
Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/S
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25505

our state is like the one

Page 163, Line 8
ਸਿਵਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਮਿਟਾਈਆ ਚੂਕਾ ਅੰਧਿਆਰਾ ॥
सिवि सकति मिटाईआ चूका अंधिआरा ॥
Siv sakaṯ mitā▫ī▫ā cẖūkā anḏẖi▫ārā.
The distinction between Shiva and Shakti - mind and matter - has been destroyed, and the darkness has been dispelled.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

We could understand for enlightened.

Page 342, Line 4
ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਸਕਤੀ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਉ ॥
इहु मनु सकती इहु मनु सीउ ॥
Ih man sakṯī ih man sī▫o.
This mind is Shakti; this mind is Shiva.
Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Oneness of Shiv and Shakti is never in Hindus moving in duality. soon Devi Pujan Partal by Bhai Veer Singh Ji be made online to remove all doubts. In Past Arya Samajis rasied the similar doubts and they were given befitting reply.

And never ever are we seeing any demigoddess being referd to as sword or gun in any Hindu text.(Bhag Singh Ambala(An ex arya Samaji) qouted Purshcharyanva Tantra, Mahnirvana tantra and Kul Churhmani Tantra, while all taking of praise of knife as tool which sacrifice the offering goat/buffalo for demigoddess so did not give the exact words as a mark of cheating and like sheep his followers believed in him without verifying the text quoted by him, we are really a the prasie worthy Sons and Daughter of Tenth Master, we did no seek proof from the statement of people bashing work done by Akal via him but ask proof for the work Akal did via him)

Waheguruseeker

You have not answered my questions.

You say you are amritdhari. What did panj piaasras instruct you?

What banis they asked you to read.

PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED

That is the whole point. Once they are through with Dasam granth their next target is Guru granth sahib. Already they are misinterpreting the bani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Then they will attack bhagat bani. Wahegurseeker's guide has already disputed bhagat bani.

There is no shiv without shakti. But these peopel do not now its meaning.

SMOKE SCREEN..or False Alarm.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji attacks began in Guru Amardass Ji time...hence the Guru Warning on kachee Bani....
Has always been there and COMPLETELY FAILED for past 500 YEARS.
Cannot and WILL NOT SUCCEED.
DG should be able to STAND ON ITS OWN FEET instead of leaning on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or hide behind such smokescreen alarms...Rightly said CHOR DE PER NAHIN HUNDEH....

Seeker ji

It is not. It is praise of akal purakh. Read it again below.

ਅਨਹਦ ਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਬਾਨੀ ॥
अनहद रूप अनाहद बानी ॥
He is Limitless Entity and hath infinite celestial strain.

ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨਿ ਜਿਹ ਬਸਤ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥
चरन सरनि जिह बसत भवानी ॥
The goddess Durga takes refuge at His Feet and abides there.

Akal ustat Dasam Granth sahib

Then in chandi di vaar guru sahib writesਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
PAURI

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
खंडा प्रिथमै साज कै जिन सभ सैसारु उपाइआ ॥
At first the Lord created the double-edged sword and then He created the whole world.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
ब्रहमा बिसनु महेस साजि कुदरति दा खेलु रचाइ बणाइआ ॥
He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and then created the play of Nature.

ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹਾ ਗਗਨਿ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
सिंधु परबत मेदनी बिनु थम्हा गगनि रहाइआ ॥
He created the oceans, mountains and the earth made the sky stable without columns.

ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
सिरजे दानो देवते तिन अंदरि बादु रचाइआ ॥
He created the demons and gods and caused strife between them.

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥
The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;

Chandi di vaar, dasam granth