Sikhism And Tattoos

Lee · #**231** (**permalink**) 01-Jul-2009, 19:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KulwantK

Sat Nam, everyone;
Other things besides tattoos and graffitti to get worked up over could include the ridiculous state of education for everyone all over the world. Why is it that a priviledged few get to go to really amazing universities and hopefully get very good educations, and the rest have to either work and not go to school at all, or end up having to drop out. (I do not know this for sure, but have heard that much of higher education in countries like Germany is free.) How is it that so many children the world over are dying because of malnutrition and no one seems to really care. Why is it that so many in Europe, America and parts of Asia are starting to talk about sustainable buildings and citystyles, but all those supposedly well educated people who went to the wonderful universities to learn about such things, as well as learning about medicine, are not talking about how to bring all these great ideas to places like villages in India? Maybe they have been, and I have not heard about it.

...And here we are quibbling about graffitti and tattoos. Are we going to start arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin next?

When we look at things like the state a country is in, it is really the goverment of the country that we should be looking at.

If the poor are not fed and adequatly looked after is it correct to call to those sons and daughters who have studied abroad and not come home, or is it better to look at the goverment.

Why seek an education abroad? Look to the goverment for all of these answers.

tony · #**232** (**permalink**) 01-Jul-2009, 22:11 PM

Kulwantk ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/2015-sikhism-and-tattoos.html
My wife was on about sponsering a child in africa, I would much rather help in the punjab, do you know of any schemes that do this, I also read about a small short term loan scheme to help the farmers in the rural areas but cant remember where I read it, if any one could help with information for either schemes I would love to hear from you. Sorry Antonia ji a little bit off topic but as someone brought it up I couldnt think of a better place to ask.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015
Tony

Narayanjot Kaur · #**233** (**permalink**) 01-Jul-2009, 23:17 PM

tony ji

That is fine. Let us know how things progress

KulwantK · #**234** (**permalink**) 02-Jul-2009, 15:42 PM

Sat Nam, Ji, not to worry about being off topic. I, too, would rather do good works starting at home. Indeed, there is a very old saying, "Charity begins at home.", and this is true. One is reminded of how the stewards and stewardesses on the airline flights, when they are explaining how to use the oxygen mask, always tell the passengers to put their own mask on first, before attempting to assist someone else with theirs. The same is true here.

I beg everyone's forgiveness if I have been impatient, rude or snappish in my comments. My apologies.

We judge ourselves and each other all the time. We judge people on the way they are dressed, whether or not they are wearing makeup, jewelry, what sorts of shoes they wear, how they walk, move, how they talk, and whether or not they have tattoos, and if so, what sort of tattoo they have.

It is a most interesting phenomenon; we are told over and over again to not judge each other, and yet almost from birth we do.

Even though we as Sikhs are told that there is no such thing as caste, we still deal with it. Look at the want ads in newspapers for brides and grooms: how many say things like, "Caste No Bar" or, on the other side of the coin, "Jat Sikh parents searching for.....".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015

In Europe and the Americas people still look at each other and figure out to which class someone belongs. It is shown by their dress, eating habits, speech patterns and what their education level may be, as well as by what job they may hold and where and if they went to University.

Yet God and Guru does not judge us by such things. We are all loved equally by God, no matter what.

We have been given two priceless gifts beyond measure; Ceativity and Free-Will Choice.

We can do things no other can do. You do not see a tree driving a car or painting a canvas do you? No, you see trees doing tree things. Have you ever seen a badger draw up architectural plans for a temple? You do not see cows going scuba diving, you see ithem doing cow things. Yet we can do all these amazing things and more.

This is one reason why Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the Kara; it is a reminder, among other things, that we are to do Good Works with our hands.

We are not born with Karas on our wrists. Ultimately, it is our decision to wear one, along with the other 4 items, each with its meaning.

We come into this world naked; no clothes and no coherent speech. We are absolutely helpless on our own and must depend on others to assist us in learning how to make our way in this world.

It has been said that to get a tattoo is altering God's design, and it is not right to do that, that it is not natural.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015

It is not natural to wear clothing, build a house, build and drive a car, get one's teeth cleaned at the dentist, or use a knife and fork with which to eat. It is not natural to use a cup or mug to drink water or chai. It is not natural to have a doctor or midwife present at the birth of a child.

These things are learned.

So, in the purely natural state, it is not natural to engage in any of the activities we associate with not only living the lives we do, but it could not comsidered natural to live even as basically as tribespeople do.

They do not have cars; many walk or ride horses or donkeys.

Riding something is not natural; it is learned.

Squatting on the dirt floor of a hut and making a crude fire with which to cook meat is not natural; making fires and cooking are not natural; they are learned.

So where is it that we learn to judge each other all the time, even while we are being told by all sorts of authorities we should not be judging each other?

It is interesting that we totally embrace some avenues of learning, and completely reject others- and oftenly, in rejecting, reject the people who have chosen those avenues, judging those people to be "idiots" or "narrow-minded fools" and other such things, oftentimes simply because they look different, or do not wear their hair the way we do, or speak a different language than us, or pray in a different way, or express their devotion in a different manner.

So, back to tattoos: how might you or I look at someone who has "Wahe Guru" tattooed on their arm, as compared to someone who has "Mom" tattooed on their arm, as compared to someone who has the logo of a very loud Heavy Metal type rock band tattooed on their arm? Think about that for a moment. What do you think those tattoos say about the people who are wearing them? When you have clearly identified, within yourself, exactly what your feelings are towards each of these examples, think about yourself; and get this: everyone with whom you come into contact is judging you!

We judge each other oftenly without even realizing it; the habit is so strong!

Everything about you; the way you look, your clothes, your food, the way you eat it, your speech, your actions; everything is being judged by others. Also, almost everything about you is the result of a choice or a series of choices you have made.

You choose the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the way you eat it, how well you take care of your body, your health, your home, your environment, your education and your attitude.

A pertinent question could be posed: What is your attitude towards ________________(fill in the blank with any subject you choose) and how did you come by it?

So, back to tattoos: What, if any, attitude do you have towards someone who has a tattoo? How have you come to have the attitude you do towards that individual?

Do you see that individual as an "idiot" or do you see them as someone who is a brother or sister of yours who happened to make a particular choice? Are you judging them? Or perhaps you are judging their choice?

Compare how your various attitudes towards things and people make you feel. Some attitudes definitely feel better than others!

See how the various judgements you make have you feeling. Does it really feel all that great to judge? So often, when we are judging, what we are really doing is attempting to make ourselves feel better about ourselves by putting someone else "down". Does that really work in the long run? Is it really a compassionate thing to do?

So the next time you see someone who has a tattoo, think about these things. Then think about all the other things and concerns I have brought up- education, health, and all those sorts of matters.

Then ask yourself what your real priorities are in life.

amrit.saggu · #**235** (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionchild

Just because you can, does it mean it's right? It seems to be deeply imbedded in the human spirit: "if we can get away with it, it's ok" One reason why the planet is so f---ed up and pouuted. And we are trying to make our religion better when following what the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and our guru's have said, is suddenly going against it ok?

Our planet is not messed up. Everything happens in divine will. Guru ji teaches that there is no good or bad, it is only a matter of perspective. Like Bhagat Kabir teaches Aval Allah noor upaya, Kudrat ke sab bandhey...if we decide to label good and bad, we are labelling God himself. Wake up people, lets look at the bigger picture.
and to whomever states "having gurbani tattooed on your body then having intercourse is disrespect"...it may not be my place to say but I believe intercourse is very natural and we have turned it into taboo through social conditioning. Also, a Sikh strives to have Naam in each breath, and to keep naam in ones heart at all times. Why would this be any different during these so call "taboo" times?

God bless
Amrit

amrit.saggu · #**236** (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KulwantK

Sat Nam, Ji, not to worry about being off topic. I, too, would rather do good works starting at home. Indeed, there is a very old saying, "Charity begins at home.", and this is true. One is reminded of how the stewards and stewardesses on the airline flights, when they are explaining how to use the oxygen mask, always tell the passengers to put their own mask on first, before attempting to assist someone else with theirs. The same is true here.

I beg everyone's forgiveness if I have been impatient, rude or snappish in my comments. My apologies.

We judge ourselves and each other all the time. We judge people on the way they are dressed, whether or not they are wearing makeup, jewelry, what sorts of shoes they wear, how they walk, move, how they talk, and whether or not they have tattoos, and if so, what sort of tattoo they have.

It is a most interesting phenomenon; we are told over and over again to not judge each other, and yet almost from birth we do.

Even though we as Sikhs are told that there is no such thing as caste, we still deal with it. Look at the want ads in newspapers for brides and grooms: how many say things like, "Caste No Bar" or, on the other side of the coin, "Jat Sikh parents searching for.....".

In Europe and the Americas people still look at each other and figure out to which class someone belongs. It is shown by their dress, eating habits, speech patterns and what their education level may be, as well as by what job they may hold and where and if they went to University.

Yet God and Guru does not judge us by such things. We are all loved equally by God, no matter what.

We have been given two priceless gifts beyond measure; Ceativity and Free-Will Choice.

We can do things no other can do. You do not see a tree driving a car or painting a canvas do you? No, you see trees doing tree things. Have you ever seen a badger draw up architectural plans for a temple? You do not see cows going scuba diving, you see ithem doing cow things. Yet we can do all these amazing things and more.

This is one reason why Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the Kara; it is a reminder, among other things, that we are to do Good Works with our hands.

We are not born with Karas on our wrists. Ultimately, it is our decision to wear one, along with the other 4 items, each with its meaning.

We come into this world naked; no clothes and no coherent speech. We are absolutely helpless on our own and must depend on others to assist us in learning how to make our way in this world.

It has been said that to get a tattoo is altering God's design, and it is not right to do that, that it is not natural.

It is not natural to wear clothing, build a house, build and drive a car, get one's teeth cleaned at the dentist, or use a knife and fork with which to eat. It is not natural to use a cup or mug to drink water or chai. It is not natural to have a doctor or midwife present at the birth of a child.

These things are learned.

So, in the purely natural state, it is not natural to engage in any of the activities we associate with not only living the lives we do, but it could not comsidered natural to live even as basically as tribespeople do.

They do not have cars; many walk or ride horses or donkeys.

Riding something is not natural; it is learned.

Squatting on the dirt floor of a hut and making a crude fire with which to cook meat is not natural; making fires and cooking are not natural; they are learned.

So where is it that we learn to judge each other all the time, even while we are being told by all sorts of authorities we should not be judging each other?

It is interesting that we totally embrace some avenues of learning, and completely reject others- and oftenly, in rejecting, reject the people who have chosen those avenues, judging those people to be "idiots" or "narrow-minded fools" and other such things, oftentimes simply because they look different, or do not wear their hair the way we do, or speak a different language than us, or pray in a different way, or express their devotion in a different manner.

So, back to tattoos: how might you or I look at someone who has "Wahe Guru" tattooed on their arm, as compared to someone who has "Mom" tattooed on their arm, as compared to someone who has the logo of a very loud Heavy Metal type rock band tattooed on their arm? Think about that for a moment. What do you think those tattoos say about the people who are wearing them? When you have clearly identified, within yourself, exactly what your feelings are towards each of these examples, think about yourself; and get this: everyone with whom you come into contact is judging you!

We judge each other oftenly without even realizing it; the habit is so strong!

Everything about you; the way you look, your clothes, your food, the way you eat it, your speech, your actions; everything is being judged by others. Also, almost everything about you is the result of a choice or a series of choices you have made.

You choose the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the way you eat it, how well you take care of your body, your health, your home, your environment, your education and your attitude.

A pertinent question could be posed: What is your attitude towards ________________(fill in the blank with any subject you choose) and how did you come by it?

So, back to tattoos: What, if any, attitude do you have towards someone who has a tattoo? How have you come to have the attitude you do towards that individual?

Do you see that individual as an "idiot" or do you see them as someone who is a brother or sister of yours who happened to make a particular choice? Are you judging them? Or perhaps you are judging their choice?

Compare how your various attitudes towards things and people make you feel. Some attitudes definitely feel better than others!

See how the various judgements you make have you feeling. Does it really feel all that great to judge? So often, when we are judging, what we are really doing is attempting to make ourselves feel better about ourselves by putting someone else "down". Does that really work in the long run? Is it really a compassionate thing to do?

So the next time you see someone who has a tattoo, think about these things. Then think about all the other things and concerns I have brought up- education, health, and all those sorts of matters.

Then ask yourself what your real priorities are in life.

That is so beautiful Kulwant Kaur. Thanks for your wonderful insight; so very true.

Roop Kaur · #**237** (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 08:37 AM

I think that in constantly fighting about whether these sorts of things are right or wrong is kind of lame ... Waheguru will love us nevertheless- whether or not we have a tattoo! Having a tattoo is not going to bring you any closer to Waheguru, nor will it pull you away.

However, I just quickly want to give my little spin on it ... If the purpose of the tattoo is to inflate ones Ego (Ahankar), which, as most of you probably know is one of the 5 evils of Sikhism, then I am strictly against it. If however, it is an Ik Onkar, or a Khanda, that has tattoo'd on an easily seen part of your body, like your hand or something, which will remind you of god throughout the day, I don't see any problem with it. It'd serve a similar purpose as a Karaa, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015

Although, I was born into a Sikh family, they are not so religious. Nor am I, this is something I am working on at the moment, and am still hungry for greater knowledge, but from what I understand so far, there was my little opinion. Sorry, if I have annoyed anyone, my apologies in advance.

God Bless

jasbirkaleka · #**238** (**permalink**) 11-Mar-2010, 21:08 PM

Dear CaramelChocolate, the fact is that God"s person is a naked being with hair allover his body and nails which never stop growing.Is it not an act of sacrilidge and against the will of God to wear clothes.

findingmyway · #**239** (**permalink**) 07-Oct-2010, 06:58 AM

show offs often feel less.

those who feel the guru's pyaar often have no need of such adornments and distractions

team verde · #**240** (**permalink**) 15-Jan-2011, 09:36 AM

When it boils down to it tattoos are just art (decoration) on one's body. But there can be so much more to it-meaning. It can be a reminder of one's faith, a symbol of hope, and so much more.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015

I do have a tattoo and was told it was wrong to have one.

However, no one but yourself can decide what is good or bad (in so many words, as shakespeare would say)

I know lots of sikhs who disapprove of my tattoo, I really believe Society has a lot to do with how sikhs (and others) in general view tattoos, like conditioning and learned behaviors. I know lots of people who look down at people with tattoos-and look down on me.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2015

And if you think about it, humans are animals, we evolved throughout the years, we still have the same instinct of animals, but have been blessed with reason. We strive to be above instinct; hence rules and society.

But back to tattoos: all in all, there is nothing wrong with getting tattoos, its up to you to decide it is bad or good. Think of why you want it, not because others tell you what it is or isn't. Sometimes I wonder why people judge others, what gives anyone the right to? I mean you don't know what happened to that person or what lead to that person's decision...

Just thought it was important someone get this out there.