Raagmala : Part of Gurbani or Not ?

What are your views about Raagmala being part of Gurbani or not ? Please take care to provide good references to support your arguements or counter arguemetns.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/1995-raagmala-part-of-gurbani-or-not.html

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What is Raagmala?

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh


Ragmala is verses just at the concluding part of Guru Granth Sahib Ji ,which are telling about various Ragas.AKJ and some schoolar do not consider it as a Bani but no Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji's copy is considered complete without ragmala.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995

Das votes for its being Part of Gurubani

Thanks veer ji.

Now I remember asking the same thing before too I guess. Forgive my ignorance please.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995

Regards.

Guru Fateh All...........

I believe Raagmala is shudh part of baani. Although, Singstah, the articles in your post give many good arguments, they are written by a man who fully believes that the Raagmala is not shudh baani, and is therefore looking for reasons to support his own belief.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995

Might I remind you, that the Raagmala is not the only baani without a srilekh? Look Jap Ji Sahib da paath. The start of Sri Gurur Granth Sahib Ji, and the initial explanation of Ik Oankar, and Mool Mantar. I find this to be a question of belief; believe it or not, the choice is yours.............

Veer Vijaydeep Jio,

It would be informative if you can quote some references as to why you vote for raagmaalaa being Gurbani.

Thanks in advance.

jarnail Singh

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.

Sri japji Sahib is needlessly "dragged" into this debate jsut to "prove" it has no sirlekh/mahalla as raagmala...

People seem to forget that JAPJI SAHIB ( and its MOOLMANTAR" seemingly without sirlekh/mahalla is REPEATED agin and again in the Guru garnth ji...31 times in fact )...was already so FAMOUS as GURU NANAK JI's DIVINE BANI during the LIFE of GURU NANAK JI himself. Bhai Lehna Ji heard the paath of JAPJI SAHIB and came to look for the writer...Guru nanak Ji....and loved what he saw and became GURU ANGAD JI. Bhai Amardass Ji also HEARD Japji Sahib Being RECITED LOUDLY..and wanted to meet the WRITER of this Divine Gurbani....and when He came..Guru nanak Ji was replaced by GURU ANGAD JI...Bhai Amardass ji also Loved what He saw, stayed on to Become GURU AMARDASS JI.

NO such "evidence" exists for Raagmaala. SO please STOP dragging in JAPJI SAHIB into this Mud-pit of Raagmaala ??? Japji Sahib BEGINS GURU GRANTH JI, its Moolmantar occupies Pride of PLACE 31 times through out the Guru Granth ji, is well known to be GURU NANAK KIRT through ROCK SOLID evidence.

On the other hand this "Raagmaala" EXISTS word for word in a TRASHY SEX BOOK called madahvnall's KAMKANDLA. It is CORRECTLY NUMBERED there in SEQUENCE ( unlike in Guru Granth Ji whetre the writer just put (1) after every pankitii...making NO SENSE at all and going AGAINST each Rule followed so striclty by GURU JI through out the entire Guru Granth Sahib jee meticulously.) This is ROCK hard evidence that this FEW LINES going under "raagmala" name have been LIFTED ( cut and paste so familiar to us !!!) from the Kaamkandala book. NONE other "gurbani" from Guru granth jis exists anywhere else..HOW did "raagmaaala" get into that book ?? and in SEQUENCE too..too PERFECT SEQUENCE to deny.

GURMATT does NOT sanction BLIND FAITH/BELIEF. AAkleen SAHIB SEVIAH akleen keechee daan..says Gurbani.

The LAST and IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE is that the Mundawni Mh 5 and the Slok Mh 5..are GURU ARJUN SAHIB JEE's BANI.....BUT when GURU GOBIND SINGH JI REWROTE GURU GRANTH JI...and ADDED in GURU TEG BAHADUR JI's GURBANI....GURU JI SHIFTED these two...MUNDAWNI MH 5 ( SEAL/STAMP of APPROVAL) to the END....and also SLOK MH 5 ( THANKSGIVING SLOK to thank Waheguru for Successfullty Completing this GREAT GRANTH JI). Then ONLY is raagmaala present....IF this raagmaala had been "gurbani" GURU JI would have placed it BEFORE the STAMP of Approval and Thanksgiving Slok ( it is a literary tradition that all writers BEGIN a Major Granth/Poem etc with a SLOK to THANK His GURU/MASTER...hence GURU GRANTH JI also begins with a SLOK..listed as "AAd sach Jugaad sach Nanak Hosee Bhee sach [[1]]" This is the MASTER of GURU NANAK. The CONCLUDING SLOK is Slok mah 5 Tera kita jato nahin... THANKS being given to Waheguru for "his" help in concluding this great granth. This Fits in very well into the PERFECT SYMETTRY of GURBANI as prepared by Guru Ji through out Guru Granth ji...the way the bani is separated by Guru, Sloks, pauris, ashtpadis varaans,bhagats banis..slok varaan te vdheek ( EXTRA SLOKS which are therefore put in one place and NOT scattered all over the place haphazardly)..EXTRA care taken to NUMBER sequenbce, add/write footnotes such as SHUDH ( cotrrected) Shudh Keeche ( I have corrected this)..Instructions such as "Eh slok AAd aant parrhnna..PLEASE READ this SLOK at the Beginning and at the END...because this Slok does indeed occur TWICE and some smart aleck might decide to SKIP one reading...so GURU JI specifically INSTRUCTS..READ THIS TWICE just the way it is RECORDED TWICE..and how Guru Ji WRITES Numbers as PEHLLA/DOOJA/TEEJA so we dont read them wrongly as Mh EK, Mh do or Mh tin..the correct way is Mahalla Pehlla, Mahalla DOOJa etc. ALL this Proves GURU jis was vwery very METICUOLOUS adn Careful with GURBANI...No additions. alterations, adulterations could OCCUR..and NONE has OCURRED...EXCEPT at the END..where raagmaala was added in...and BEFORE raagmala there are several other spurious additions as well..How to make INK, Shah mohamdah sloks etc etc etc..ALL these come AFTER SLOK MH 5 Concluding Slok..BUT BEFORE Raagmaaala...so HOW are the Pro raagmala going to PROVE that the RECIPE for INK is also GURBANI...the Shah Mohammadah sloks are also Gurbani...THESE have been taken out of Guru garnth because they are TOO PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that they are NOT gurbani..not by along shot..but Raagmaal managed to "hold on by the skin of its teeth...BECAUSE the SANT/BABAY LOBBY of DERAWALLAHS latched on to it as a Fighting weapon aginst the SINGH SABVHA reformers..thats the real story.

I look forward to the authentic reasoins that PROVE raagmala is "gurbani" at PAR with the rest of GURBANI. These SAME SANT BABAY are also INSISTING that the Chitrapakhoyan ( also found elsewhere in ancient texts exactly as in dasam granth) to be DIVINE GURBANI..when they CANNOT read this "GURBANI" in the company of their own wives and daughters ( OH I forgot the sant abbay DONT have wives or daughters !!!)

Love for all

Jarnail Singh

Respected Gyani ji,

I love reading your posts, which make a lot of sense due to clarity of words, and simplest way of explanation. I humbly request you to keep sant/baba off from this discussion, that may off-track the discussion about raagmaala.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995

With respect and love, Arvind.

Guru Fateh, Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji................

You make some really good points here, and I myself am starting to wonder...........
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1995
Thank you very much for your post, I love the way you express yourself.............
Keep it up ji...............