Cooking in the Danger Zone-INDIA-Dalits

kaur-1 · #1 (**permalink**) 22-Feb-2007, 20:58 PM

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

I was watching a UK BBC program titled "Cooking in the Danger Zone" last night and was quite shocked and upset at what I saw.

Source: BBC NEWS | Programmes | This World | Cooking in the Danger Zone

Producer: Marc Perkins
Executive producer: Will Daws

INDIA

Wednesday, 21 February, 2007
2030 GMT on BBC Four

In India Stefan visits some of the world's poorest and most oppressed people.
More than 160 million people in the country are classed as Dalits and are considered "Untouchable".

Tainted by their birth they enter a caste system that condemns them to an inescapable cycle of poverty, illiteracy and oppression.

Nowhere is this discrimination more evident than with food.
The "Untouchables" are not allowed to eat in the same places or even touch the same plates of other castes.

Stefan ventures to India's most lawless state, Bihar, to meet Dalits who work the land. He meets a particular sub-caste known as "Rat-Eaters" and joins them in the fields where they live up to their name: catching, roasting and eating rat.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/15019-cooking-in-danger-zone-india-dalits.html

But it is not only poverty and discrimination they face. Stefan tracks down an "upper caste army" whose aim is to keep the Dalits in their place, often violently attacking them.

Stefan then heads to India's "City of Dreams", Mumbai. Here he visits the city's most exclusive and expensive restaurant, to see at first hand India's rapidly expanding middle class with money to burn.

But he also sees another side to the city when he visits the largest slum in Asia, home to thousands of Dalits trying to find a way out of the caste discrimination.

He also meets Bale Rao, a Dalit who now works as a tiffinwala, delivering lunch-boxes on his bicycle to middle-class office workers around the city.

Why isnt anyone in India listening to Guru Nanak ji's teaching regarding caste?

I did a search on youtube and the first video I found was this !! Another shock!

Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxSdru59NVs
Bant Singh is a revolutionary singer in Punjab, India, whose 2 years old daughter was raped by upper caste men. When he sought justice, they cut of his limbs. But he can still sing, and in this video letter he expresses no self-pity.

Blog:
Punjab Dalit Solidarity: February 2006
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15019
"There are also several Dalit gurudwaras in Punjab, as the upper castes would not allow them to worship in others. As another character in Bhardwaj’s film says, “So many Gurus have come and gone but the Dalits are still where they were.”

A Sikh is a Sikh! Why do people still go on about being upper caste and believe in the caste system. And who are this so called upper caste Sikhs.

There should not even be a term such as an "upper caste Sikh"!! Disgraceful and shameful !!!!!!!!

Source:India: ‘Hidden Apartheid’ of Discrimination Against Dalits (Human Rights Watch, 13-2-2007)

"On December 27, 2006 Manmohan Singh became the first sitting Indian prime minister to openly acknowledge the parallel between the practice of “untouchability” and the crime of apartheid. Singh described “untouchability” as a “blot on humanity” adding that “even after 60 years of constitutional and legal protection and state support, there is still social discrimination against Dalits in many parts of our country.”

“Prime Minister Singh has rightly compared ‘untouchability’ to apartheid, and he should now turn his words into action to protect the rights of Dalits,” said Professor Smita Narula, faculty director of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice (CHRGJ) at New York University School of Law, and co-author of the report. “The Indian government can no longer deny its collusion in maintaining a system of entrenched social and economic segregation.” "

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simpy · #2 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaur-1

Why isnt anyone in India listening to Guru Nanak ji's teaching regarding caste?

A Sikh is a Sikh! Why do people still go on about being upper caste and believe in the caste system. And who are this so called upper caste Sikhs.

There should not even be a term such as an "upper caste Sikh"!! Disgraceful and shameful !!!!!!!!

----

Respected Kaur-1 Ji,

Unfortunately this is everywhere.

Somebody told me yesterday- Our Gurdwara Sahib has a program where they train children to be better Sikhs.
And a person who is in his 60/70s was performing seva over there. He is clean-shaven. A kid of age 5/6 came to him and started yelling at him literally- ‘I hate you, because you do not wear a turban. I hate everybody who does not wear a turban.’
We found out that this is how he is being taught at his home. So he hates all those who do not wear a turban. This is his understanding of goodness.

There are several several parents who are doing this, think about how much hatred is in these parents and how these kids will be when they are grown.

And this is not the first time, we see this all the times in many many Gurdwaras.

Sometimes special treatment is given to who are rich, who donate a lot, and so on.
I heard in one Gurdwara Sahib this committee member did not let this old handicapped women sit in the Sangat, because she had to use a special chair to sit on(without even having an excuse of the height of the chair, because in that Gurdwara, Babaji’s Bir is placed at a very very high place, so that question can not be raised and to everybody’s surprise this Gurdwara has those special handicap entrances).

Equality, respecting others, has become a thing RARELY TO BE FOUND in Gurdwaras everywhere.

We need to encourage people to actually read Bani and understand it, Then live it.

This false understanding-Once we are AmritDhari-This is it, we got a license to Salvation, now we can do whatever-wrong or right, we are forgiven, we are accepted….

No understanding of Bani.
No living GuruJi’s Preachings.

And These pakhandi babas are Sone te Suhagaa.
Some of them even literally tell their followers Do not read Bani, it is all coded, you will not understand it, I will teach you the right way. My way is the only right way….

We need to wake up and wake others up as well.

sahilmakkar1983 · #3 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 17:31 PM

GuruFateh

Its happening because .. we dont know what sikhism is..

What sikh is...
cn any body tell the meaning of sikh only..
what is sikh... what is the unique quality of sikh...
Answer should not be in accordance with ur mind... but should be according to gurubani

so please answer it.. and let us discover it again..

SVJKK SVJKF

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaur-1

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

I was watching a UK BBC program titled "Cooking in the Danger Zone" last night and was quite shocked and upset at what I saw.

Source: BBC NEWS | Programmes | This World | Cooking in the Danger Zone

Producer: Marc Perkins
Executive producer: Will Daws

INDIA

Wednesday, 21 February, 2007
2030 GMT on BBC Four

In India Stefan visits some of the world's poorest and most oppressed people.
More than 160 million people in the country are classed as Dalits and are considered "Untouchable".

Tainted by their birth they enter a caste system that condemns them to an inescapable cycle of poverty, illiteracy and oppression.

Nowhere is this discrimination more evident than with food.
The "Untouchables" are not allowed to eat in the same places or even touch the same plates of other castes.

Stefan ventures to India's most lawless state, Bihar, to meet Dalits who work the land. He meets a particular sub-caste known as "Rat-Eaters" and joins them in the fields where they live up to their name: catching, roasting and eating rat.

But it is not only poverty and discrimination they face. Stefan tracks down an "upper caste army" whose aim is to keep the Dalits in their place, often violently attacking them.

Stefan then heads to India's "City of Dreams", Mumbai. Here he visits the city's most exclusive and expensive restaurant, to see at first hand India's rapidly expanding middle class with money to burn.

But he also sees another side to the city when he visits the largest slum in Asia, home to thousands of Dalits trying to find a way out of the caste discrimination.

He also meets Bale Rao, a Dalit who now works as a tiffinwala, delivering lunch-boxes on his bicycle to middle-class office workers around the city.

Why isnt anyone in India listening to Guru Nanak ji's teaching regarding caste?

I did a search on youtube and the first video I found was this !! Another shock!

Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxSdru59NVs
Bant Singh is a revolutionary singer in Punjab, India, whose 2 years old daughter was raped by upper caste men. When he sought justice, they cut of his limbs. But he can still sing, and in this video letter he expresses no self-pity.

Blog:
Punjab Dalit Solidarity: February 2006
"There are also several Dalit gurudwaras in Punjab, as the upper castes would not allow them to worship in others. As another character in Bhardwaj’s film says, “So many Gurus have come and gone but the Dalits are still where they were.”

A Sikh is a Sikh! Why do people still go on about being upper caste and believe in the caste system. And who are this so called upper caste Sikhs.

There should not even be a term such as an "upper caste Sikh"!! Disgraceful and shameful !!!!!!!!

Source:India: ‘Hidden Apartheid’ of Discrimination Against Dalits (Human Rights Watch, 13-2-2007)

"On December 27, 2006 Manmohan Singh became the first sitting Indian prime minister to openly acknowledge the parallel between the practice of “untouchability” and the crime of apartheid. Singh described “untouchability” as a “blot on humanity” adding that “even after 60 years of constitutional and legal protection and state support, there is still social discrimination against Dalits in many parts of our country.”

“Prime Minister Singh has rightly compared ‘untouchability’ to apartheid, and he should now turn his words into action to protect the rights of Dalits,” said Professor Smita Narula, faculty director of the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice (CHRGJ) at New York University School of Law, and co-author of the report. “The Indian government can no longer deny its collusion in maintaining a system of entrenched social and economic segregation.” "

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simpy · #4 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 19:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahilmakkar1983

GuruFateh

Its happening because .. we dont know what sikhism is..

What sikh is...
cn any body tell the meaning of sikh only..
what is sikh... what is the unique quality of sikh...
Answer should not be in accordance with ur mind... but should be according to gurubani

so please answer it.. and let us discover it again..

SVJKK SVJKF

well my mind is not mine, it thinks and works Bani.

Sikh-sikh is a learner(a student totally faithful to the teacher-GURU JI)
a sincere student with proper conduct, listen to Guru's advice and Live it as well. one who learns from the Guru, belives it to be the TRUTH and spreads that truth among others by his/her own example. who uses his/her intellect as an instrument, who knows the perfect pleasure is in following his/her Guru's teachings.........(i can go on and on, i think i covered the basics)

you also asked for the reply to-

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahilmakkar1983

GuruFateh Sarabjeet ji,

Yes, very true, Bani is great, and all the world is around Bani only,
Without Bani world cant exist.. Bani is within us.. The breathe that is going .. is because of Bani within us,
Bani is vibration, vibrating word... that is present in everybeing(all religion: hindu, muslim sikh christian)..
Yes this is true.. But m not taking the side of our Panth.. m not talking about reading the Bani.. again saying..
as this lines clearly tells that BANI is not what we are understanding...
but Bani is the power that is with in us... (SEE ORANGE lines)

and shabad about which here Gurubani is saying is also within us
and that SHABAD is BANI.
Please read the lines .. u will come to know BANI and SHABAD are one..
and within us. within our heart..
no need to speak from mouth... but we need to contemplate/meditate on the vibration that is already within us
ਸਚੇ ਭਗਤ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਵਾਰੇ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਖਾਣੇ ਰਾਮ ॥
सचे भगत सोहहि दरवारे सचो सचु वखाणे राम ॥
sachay bhagat soheh darvaaray sacho sach vakhaanay raam.
The true devotees look beautiful in the Darbaar of the Lord's Court. They speak Truth, and only Truth.

ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਾਚੋ ਆਪਿ ਪਛਾਣੇ ਰਾਮ ॥
घट अंतरे साची बाणी साचो आपि पछाणे राम ॥
ghat antray saachee banee saacho aap pachhaanay raam.
Deep within the nucleus of their heart, is the True Word of the Lord's Bani. Through the Truth, they understand themselves.

ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਤਾ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਸਾਚੇ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਈ ॥
आपु पछाणहि ता सचु जाणहि साचे सोझी होई ॥
aap pachhaaneh taa sach jaaneh saachay sojhee ho-ee.
They understand themselves, and so know the True Lord, through their true intuition.

ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਹੈ ਸੋਭਾ ਸਾਚੇ ਹੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥
सचा सबदु सची है सोभा साचे ही सुखु होई ॥
sachaa sabad sachee hai sobhaa saachay hee sukh ho-ee.
True is the Shabad, and True is its Glory; peace comes only from Truth.

ਸਾਚਿ ਰਤੇ ਭਗਤ ਇਕ ਰੰਗੀ ਦੂਜਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥
साचि रते भगत इक रंगी दूजा रंगु न कोई ॥
saach ratay bhagat ik rangee doojaa rang na ko-ee.
Imbued with Truth, the devotees love the One Lord; they do not love any other.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸ ਕਉ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਸੁ ਸਚੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੨॥੩॥
नानक जिस कउ मसतकि लिखिआ तिसु सचु परापति होई ॥४॥२॥३॥
naanak jis ka-o mastak likhi-aa tis sach paraapat ho-ee. ||4||2||3||
O Nanak, he alone obtains the True Lord, who has such pre-ordained destiny written upon his forehead.

SVJKK SVJKF

Bani speaks for itself, unless you want me to repeat what you are saying...what is your question??????

humbly requesting you to convey your understanding of what a sikh is.........

sahilmakkar1983 · #5 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 19:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema

well my mind is not mine, it thinks and works Bani.

Sikh-sikh is a learner(a student totally faithful to the teacher-GURU JI)
a sincere student with proper conduct, listen to Guru's advice and Live it as well. one who learns from the Guru, belives it to be the TRUTH and spreads that truth among others by his/her own example. who uses his/her intellect as an instrument, who knows the perfect pleasure is in following his/her Guru's teachings.........(i can go on and on, i think i covered the basics)

you also asked for the reply to-

Bani speaks for itself, unless you want me to repeat what you are saying...what is your question??????

humbly requesting you to convey your understanding of what a sikh is.........

UR lines are in blue
well my mind is not mine, it thinks and works Bani.
NOT PERFECTLY TRUE
CAN u put some GURUBANI which describes .. that these thoughts are from gurubani only..
Sikh-sikh is a learner(a student totally faithful to the teacher-GURU JI)
a sincere student with proper conduct, listen to Guru's advice and Live it as well. one who learns from the Guru, belives it to be the TRUTH and spreads that truth among
Absolutely true

by his/her own example. who uses his/her intellect as an instrument
Near to FALSE

False I have written... sorry because Japji sahib says
LAKH SYANPA.. PAAVE HOVE...IK NA CHALE NAAL

Waiting for ur reply...

sahilmakkar1983 · #6 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 19:42 PM

no need to speak from mouth... but we need to contemplate/meditate on the vibration that is already within us
ਸਚੇ ਭਗਤ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਵਾਰੇ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਖਾਣੇ ਰਾਮ ॥
सचे भगत सोहहि दरवारे सचो सचु वखाणे राम ॥
sachay bhagat soheh darvaaray sacho sach vakhaanay raam.
The true devotees look beautiful in the Darbaar of the Lord's Court. They speak Truth, and only Truth.

ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਾਚੋ ਆਪਿ ਪਛਾਣੇ ਰਾਮ ॥
घट अंतरे साची बाणी साचो आपि पछाणे राम ॥
ghat antray saachee banee saacho aap pachhaanay raam.
Deep within the nucleus of their heart, is the True Word of the Lord's Bani. Through the Truth, they understand themselves.

ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਤਾ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਸਾਚੇ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਈ ॥
आपु पछाणहि ता सचु जाणहि साचे सोझी होई ॥
aap pachhaaneh taa sach jaaneh saachay sojhee ho-ee.
They understand themselves, and so know the True Lord, through their true intuition.

ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਹੈ ਸੋਭਾ ਸਾਚੇ ਹੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15019
सचा सबदु सची है सोभा साचे ही सुखु होई ॥
sachaa sabad sachee hai sobhaa saachay hee sukh ho-ee.
True is the Shabad, and True is its Glory; peace comes only from Truth.

ਸਾਚਿ ਰਤੇ ਭਗਤ ਇਕ ਰੰਗੀ ਦੂਜਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15019
साचि रते भगत इक रंगी दूजा रंगु न कोई ॥
saach ratay bhagat ik rangee doojaa rang na ko-ee.
Imbued with Truth, the devotees love the One Lord; they do not love any other.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਸ ਕਉ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਸੁ ਸਚੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੨॥੩॥
नानक जिस कउ मसतकि लिखिआ तिसु सचु परापति होई ॥४॥२॥३॥
naanak jis ka-o mastak likhi-aa tis sach paraapat ho-ee. ||4||2||3||
O Nanak, he alone obtains the True Lord, who has such pre-ordained destiny written upon his forehead.

YES MY DEAR FREND Please repeat the meaning of lines above
what u understand from it..
where is Bani...
SVJKK SVJKF

simpy · #7 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 19:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahilmakkar1983

UR lines are in blue
who uses his/her intellect as an instrument
Near to FALSE

False I have written... sorry because Japji sahib says
LAKH SYANPA.. PAAVE HOVE...IK NA CHALE NAAL

Waiting for ur reply...

first of all: you make your own opinions, no problems at all.....

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Sache Paatshah da hukam hai-

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib de Panna no. 350--

vwjw miq pKwvju Bwa]u
Make your intellect your instrument, and love your tambourine

so should a sikh, Guru Ji's student, follow Guru Ji or not??????????
does it matter what others think???????

Knowing the truth happens with Guru's grace only and to earn that grace you have to become Sachayra from within---

scu qw pru jwxIAY jw irdY scw hoie ]
kUV kI mlu auqrY qnu kry hCw Doie ]
scu qw pru jwxIAY jw sic Dry ipAwru ]
nwau suix mnu rhsIAY qw pwey moK duAwru ]
scu qw pru jwxIAY jw jugiq jwxY jIau ]
Driq kwieAw swiD kY ivic dyie krqw bIau ]
scu qw pru jwxIAY jw isK scI lyie ]
dieAw jwxY jIA kI ikCu puMnu dwnu kryie ]
scu qW pru jwxIAY jw Awqm qIriQ kry invwsu ]
siqgurU no puiC kY bih rhY kry invwsu ]
scu sBnw hoie dwrU pwp kFY Doie ]
nwnku vKwxY bynqI ijn scu plY hoie ]2]

forgive me please

sahilmakkar1983 · #8 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 20:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surinder Kaur Cheema

first of all: you make your own opinions, no problems at all.....

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Sache Paatshah da hukam hai-

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib de Panna no. 350--

vwjw miq pKwvju Bwa]u
Make your intellect your instrument, and love your tambourine

so should a sikh, Guru Ji's student, follow Guru Ji or not??????????
does it matter what others think???????

Knowing the truth happens with Guru's grace only and to earn that grace you have to become Sachayra from within---

scu qw pru jwxIAY jw irdY scw hoie ]
kUV kI mlu auqrY qnu kry hCw Doie ]
scu qw pru jwxIAY jw sic Dry ipAwru ]
nwau suix mnu rhsIAY qw pwey moK duAwru ]
scu qw pru jwxIAY jw jugiq jwxY jIau ]
Driq kwieAw swiD kY ivic dyie krqw bIau ]
scu qw pru jwxIAY jw isK scI lyie ]
dieAw jwxY jIA kI ikCu puMnu dwnu kryie ]
scu qW pru jwxIAY jw Awqm qIriQ kry invwsu ]
siqgurU no puiC kY bih rhY kry invwsu ]
scu sBnw hoie dwrU pwp kFY Doie ]
nwnku vKwxY bynqI ijn scu plY hoie ]2]

forgive me please

First of all sorry sister, i think i hurt u..
THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS.. i will put some quotes from gurbani only..

ya Knowledge of truth happens only with . guru grace.
But what is truth..
Gurubani says truth is GOD only..
do we know god..
have we seen him..
then where is knowledge..
gurubani says God cn be seen..
have we seen it..
Gurubani is clearly saying we need a master to see the GOD..
and guru is living..
Please dont mind but GURU we need living..
but guru it talks about living

simpy · #9 (**permalink**) 23-Feb-2007, 21:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahilmakkar1983

First of all sorry sister, i think i hurt u..
THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS.. i will put some quotes from gurbani only..

ya Knowledge of truth happens only with . guru grace.
But what is truth..
Gurubani says truth is GOD only..
do we know god..
have we seen him..
then where is knowledge..
gurubani says God cn be seen..
have we seen it..
Gurubani is clearly saying we need a master to see the GOD..
and guru is living..
Please dont mind but GURU we need living..
but guru it talks about living

Guru is the one who teaches us, here we are talking about the Spiritual Master, so can be a Scripture/living Master/Higher Self Within/The Universe..........

Everybody has to become Sachayra himself or herself, by following the preaching.

How many people have this capability to judge if the fellow posing to be the living Guru is true or fake?????

To tackle this confusion, Sikh Guru Sahiban have done this upkaar upon the sikhs, that they have all the teachings from all different Bhagats and Gurus compiled together, so that no aspect, no stage of bhagati is left unanswered. say-NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED...

This notion that a living Guru is the only way out is not true for the sikhs. Our Guru is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. and Guru Ji answers all the questions of the bhagats at all the levels. First, one must try it, then say, if it works or not. Debating on something without practically living the facts does not always work. You may fool those who do not want to believe, learn and follow their own Guru Ji, but not all.

and not only the sikhs even there are other people from many different religious backgrounds follow Guru Ji's teachings and attain Spiritual Elevations.

You need a living Guru, does not mean every body else has to have a living Guru.

Nothing happens with merely having a living Guru around- you have to live the truth Guru is teaching.

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Ram Das Ji de Bachan
Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib de pann no. 669:

syvk isK pUjx siB Awvih siB gwvih hir hir aUqm bwnI ]
gwivAw suixAw iqn kw hir Qwie pwvY ijn siqgur kI AwigAw siq siq kir mwnI ]

We humans need a GURU- NOT NECESSARILY A LIVING Human as GURU.

forgive me please