Sign Up |  Live StatsLive Stats    Articles 38,993| Comments 192,013| Members 20,117, Newest savinderahuja| Online 338
Home Contact
 (Forgotten?): 
    Sikhism
    For best SPN experience, use Firefox Internet Browser!


                                                                   Your Banner Here!    




Click Here to Register/Sign Up Daily Hukamnama Member Blogs Downloads Website Navigation Help Fonts Tags
Sikh Philosophy Network » Sikh Philosophy Network » Hard Talk » Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

Our Donation Goal : Why Donate? : Donate Today! : Donate Anonymously (ਗੁਪਤ) : Our Family of Supporters
Goal this month: 300 USD, Received: 0 USD (0%)
Please Donate...
       

Tags
answering, wrong, doubts, bani, onto, tenth, master
Reply Post New Topic In This Forum Stay Connected to Sikhism, Click Here to Register Now!
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 03:18 AM
The Khalsa Fauj's Avatar The Khalsa Fauj The Khalsa Fauj is offline
 
Enrolled: Dec 1st, 2006
Posts: 315
The Khalsa Fauj is on a distinguished roadThe Khalsa Fauj is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 186 Times in 79 Posts
    Nationality: Canada
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

  Donate Today!   Email to Friend  Tell a Friend   Show Printable Version  Print   Contact sikhphilosophy.net Administraion for any Suggestions, Ideas, Feedback.  Feedback  

Register to Remove Advertisements
Side Note: We must know that the writer when referring to the king near Satluj river, is directing the talk towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is further made clear when it says that followers from all over the places came and received boons. Not only that, it also talks about the king being young and a religious leader. There should be no doubt that it is directed towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chariter 16
Dohra
Near the Satluj River, a king lived happily. A prostitute arrived in the city to make money. 1.
Investigation: Anandpur was newly established and was under control of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhs mostly lived there so it is hard to believe that a prostitute would have customers in Anandpur Sahib. Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Arill
Everyone knew her as Shujeeya but her lovers referred to her as Ludeeya. Every man who saw her, became attracted to her and received pleasure in the heart. 2.
Investigation: Who were her lovers? Were they Sikhs? The writer fails to make it clear. Did the Sikhs also become attracted to her and visited her? Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Dohra
She was attracted towards the king but she could not convince him. She thought about ideas to meet the king. 3.
(She thought) He doesn’t for love me so what should be done? He doesn’t come to my house and neither does he call me to his house). 4.
Some way has to be found to meet him fast. She thought that maybe he could be won over through jantars and mantars. 5.
She was exhausted trying jantars and mnatars but he king didn’t visit her. Then she plotted a ploy to allure the king. 6.
She dressed in orange clothing which the Yogis wear and bowed to the king when entering the king’s court. 7.
Investigation: Did the prostitute not know where she was going? Did she think that the Guru would fall for her? Is this not an attack on Guru Sahib? Is this not questioning the character of Guru Sahib? Then the writer says that she tries jantars and mantars. Maybe the writer didn’t know but Gurmat doesn’t agree to performing mantars. It is strictly against Gurmat. The writer again fails to mention that mantars are against Gurmat. Also Guru Ji was so unaware that he could not tell the difference between a woman dressed as a yogi and a man dressed as a yogi? Is this not an attack on the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
Arill
Seeing the Yogi, the king was impressed internally and thought about receiving some mantars from the yogi. King called a messenger, told him what to say and sent him to the Yogi (prostitute) so he the king could learn the skill of mantars. 8.
Investigation: Once again, the writer makes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a king searching for mantars. Someone could say that the mantars here don’t mean the magic spells but it means consultation or virtues. Even if that point is accepted, it still doesn’t make it correct as there is no reason to learn virtues from a yogi or have consultation with yogis on Panthic or even personal matters. Guru is the one who teaches others, not the other way around. However, the mantars here mean magic spells. This will be proven later in the chariter. Is this not slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Could someone promoting this garbage be considered a Sikh of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Is there any shame left?
Chaupai
King’s servant went to the Yogi. Whatever the king had said, the servant repeated to the Yogi. Servant asked the Yogi to give some mantars to the king and to please complete this task for his boss (king). 9.
Investigation: So Guru was sending his servants to make appointments to learn mantars from yogis? Why was Guru Sahib so desperate to learn mantars when they are not even as per Gurmat? Guru Sahib said something and did something?
Dohra
The yogi opened his/her eyes after 3 hours and told the servant to bring the king to her/his house if the king wanted to learn virtues. 10.
Bring him to me at midnight. With Gorakh’s blessing, the king will not go back empty handed. 11.
Investigation: Why did the yogi have her/his eyes closed for 3 hours? Closing eyes is also against Gurmat. Gurbani calls it hypocrisy and the writer again fails to mention this. The writer then says with Gorakh’s blessings; here Gorakh means Gorakh Naath the yogi. Gurmat only says to worship Akaal and look for help from Akaal. Not some deities or humans or saints, no matter how great they are. This is evidenced in the concept of ‘Pooja Akaal Kee’ meaning worship of God. God is worshipped by following Gurbani. Gorakh Naath was the founder of the yogi sect of Hinduism. Was Gorakh Nath greater than Guru Nanak that the 10th Nanak had to go to a follower of Gorakh to learn virtues? Guru Nanak proved the path of yogis wrong as evidenced in ‘Sidh Gost’ written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Tria Chariter promoters say that those questioning Tria Chariters are questioning Guru and Gurbani. After reading this verse, it should clear on who is questioning Guru and Gurbani.
Chaupai
The servant relayed the message back to the king and woke him up at midnight. He took the king to the yogi’s house. Upon seeing the king, the yogi felt great pleasure. 12.
Investigation: Who cares if the yogi felt pleasure or not. What does it have to do with Gurmat?
Dohra
Yogi asked the king to send all the people away from the site and call for sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 13.
The king did as asked and told the people to go away. He also received the sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 14.
Then the king sent all of his people away and stayed there pleasurably to learn the mantar. 15.
Investigation: What does liquor have to do with virtues and what do others items have to do with learning virtues? Items such as wick lamps, sandalwood, rice, flowers, etc. are used in learning mantars (magic spells) and not when learning virtues. Therefore, it should be clear that the mantars here mean magic spells which are against fundamentals of Gurmat. Once again the writer tries to make Guru Gobind Singh Ji look like a person who doesn’t know much about his surroundings. This is a direct attack on Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chaupai
When the king was alone, the yogi said that I will show you magic now and will teach you the mantar later. 16.
Investigation: Gurmat also doesn’t accept showing off of magic powers. Once again, the writer fails to mention that this is against Gurmat.
Dohra
From male, I will become a female, and then I will become a male again. Being a male, I will teach you mantar and being a female, I will have sex with you. 17.
Investigation: There should be no confusion here as this is not magic but a fraud. There is nothing special in looking like a woman and then looking like a man. Only a confused person would want to look like the opposite gender. Example, those who shave hair are usually confused as they want to cut hair and look more like females than males.
King Said:
The male who gives mantar is like a father and woman who gives mantar is like a mother. They are to be served and are not be had sexual intercourse with. 18.
Investigation: These statements which seem like the writer is promoting Gurmat are just sugar-coating on poison. Don’t be fooled by these.
Arill
Guru has to be served for mamy years and then after trying hard, the mantar has to be received. Therefore, it is proper to bow to Guru. Hey witty! Then tell me why should sex be had with him/her? 19.
Investigation: So suddenly the yogi becomes Guru of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Where are the brains of promoters of this slandering of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Do these people have mental problems? Is their mission to promote these yogis or other anti-Gurmat paths as better than the path of Guru Nanak? Who are the real slanderers of Guru? Promoters of such stories or the ones who oppose these?
Chaupai
Then the yogi said that I performed his clever act to meet you. Now have sex with me my beloved. Now get on my bed. 20.
Investigation: Did the woman think that Guru Sahib was so easily going to get on her bed and have sex with her?
Dohra
My body has been thirsting to meet you and my body parts have become weak. Hey beloved! Come and accommodate yourself on my bed and make love with me today. 21.
If you try to run away then I will get you caught as a thief and if you let me go, I will speak foul to you. Otherwise, have sex with me without a thought. 22.
When a woman, filled with lust, comes to the one who she loves and if the loved one lets her go without fulfilling her desire, that person shall be thrown in deep hell. 23.
If a woman’s body is filled with lust but a man refuses to fulfill her desires, he should be thrown into the deep pit of hell. 24.
Investigation: So people of Anandpur had the character of Guru Sahib in question that they would believe a prostitute and accept Guru Ji as a thief? Guru Ji wasn’t like a lot of the Gurudwara committee members or granthis who steal money from Gurudwaras. Did the prostitute seriously think that her threats and tactics were going to work? What are the threats of being thrown in hell to Guru? Even Sikhs don’t care about hell or heaven so then why would Guru believe in it? Gurmat rejects the hells and heavens after death. Writer again fails to preach Gurmat and keeps promoting Sikhs and their Guru as followers of Hindu philosophy.
Arill
Creator has given me birth in the house of a prostitute. I took the appearance of a Yogi to meet you. Now quickly place yourself on my bed. I will live as your slave. Don’t make me more anxious. 25.
Investigation: So is it Guru’s fault that she is born in a prostitute’s house? She didn’t have to be a prostitute. What is the purpose of writing that the appearance of yogi was only taken to meet the king? Also Guru Sahib didn’t look for slaves. Guru Sahib freed the people from slavery; not made them slaves.
Dohra
So what if you are smart and are young adult. I have been pierced by separation from you so don’t leave my desire unfilled. 26.
Investigation: It looks like the woman is lecturing Guru on what to do rather than Guru Sahib lecturing her on what is right and what is wrong.
Arill
Don’t waste the time anymore. I am under control of lust. I am drowned in lust up to my head. Don’t let me off with sexual intercourse and don’t have ego due to my desire like black clouded night. 27.
People come to you from all over the places and receive the boons which they wish for. What wrong have I done that I can not have you? I will be the slave of your slaves. Proceed to my bed. 28.
The king said that he came to learn mantars and that she played this act. Why should I have sexual intercourse with you? I am really scared of falling from my faith. 29.
Investigation: Then the prostitute accuses Guru Sahib of having ego because he didn’t agree to her wishes according to the story. Is it ego to keep moral code of conduct and refuse to participate it morally corrupt acts? So Guru Sahib refused to have sex because of fear of falling from faith and nothing to do with morals and shame? If Guru Sahib wasn’t the Guru of Sikhs, he would have agreed to the prostitute and participated in sexual activity? How low are the Tria Chariter promoters going to fall morally? Don’t these people fear God when they slander Guru by linking such garbage to Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
That woman tried persuasion through many ways. She tried many opinions and persuasions. She tried many jantars and mantars. However, she could not persuade the king into her hands. 30.
Investigation: Mantars don’t work on Gursikhs so forget about trying them on Guru. Shows the lack of knowledge the writer has.
Arill
She went into the veranda and started shouting “thief” “thief”. She tried to scare the king to meet him. She came back to him and said to listen to her. She said that the king can either have sex with her or she will get him tied up. 31.
Hearing “thief” “thief”, people came to the location. Woman told the people that she started talking while in her sleep. When the people were gone, she held the hand of the king. She told the king to have sexual intercourse with or her face being tied up. 32.
Investigation: It says the king’s hand was held by her. Didn’t the king snap his hand away from her? Guru Sahib didn’t mind prostitutes holding his hand? Isn’t this an attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Dohra
Then the king thought in his mind that the concept of mantars is to put on an act and run away. 33.
If I run, I lose honor. If I have sexual intercourse, I fall from religion. Due to both of these issues, the situation has become very hard to handle. May God protect me now. 34.
Then king thought that if a son is born, he will become a pimp and if a daughter is born, she will be a prostitute. By having sexual intercourse, religion is lost and by running, I will be tied up. 35.
Investigation: Does the verse talking about having pimp or prostitute as child according to Gurmat? Does this mean Guru Sahib would have fulfilled her wish had it not been the fear of child being born as prostitute or pimp? Is this not a direct attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
King said, “hey beloved! Listen to me. I was just checking you devotion towards me. Whoever finds a beautiful woman like you and lets her go, is a big imbecile. 36.
Investigation: The woman keeps calling Guru Sahib as beloved in a *******ed way and Guru Sahib doesn’t say a word to stop her? How low the chariter promoters going to go to link this garbage to Guru Sahib? Would Guru Sahib ever say that the one who lets go of a beautiful woman is an idiot? When are these enemies of Guru and Guru’s Panth going to stop attacking Guru and Gurmat?
Dohra
If a beautiful woman like you is received, anyone who thinks about forsaking her, his having birth is shameful. 37.
Get a large amount of poppy husk, cannabis, and opium quickly. Being happy from the heart, feed me cannabis. 38.
You drink a lot of liquor and feed me cannabis. I will have sexual intercourse with you for 12 hours. 39.
Investigation: So all those who follow Gurmat had no point in being born? Is this not a direct attack on Gurmat? Is this what the naked legs ones read and promote as Gurmat? Would Guru Sahib ever order drugs? Would Guru Sahib ever tell a woman who doesn’t belong to him that he would have sex with her for 12 hours? Are these stories the reasons why they are often caught in sex scandals or rapes? Can these people ever be considered Sikhs? According to the rehat maryada, they can not be. This is the reason why they reject the rehat maryada and make their own maraydas. Who are the real enemies of Guru? Those who promote garbage like this or the ones who oppose it?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14772-answering-wrong-doubts-about-bani-onto.html
Chaupai
Without knowing, she became joyful after listening to these words. She could not tell between fact and falseness. Being really happy in the heart, she ordered the drugs the king had ordered. 40.
Investigation: The writer seems to have a grudge against women. Maybe his wife ran away or performed one the tricks on someone else. What is so great about fooling women? Is this Gurmat?
Dohra
Poppy husk, cannabis, opium and deep grinded cannabis and liquor prepared seven times were brought. 41.
Investigation: Isn’t this verse promoting drugs? Not once have drugs been denounced in the chariter. Would Guru Sahib not say how bad drugs are? Shows that this isn’t work of Guru Sahib.
Arill
Then the king thought in the mind. Today I will not have sex with her. This is the wisdom from the mantar. I will make her really high on drugs and lie her down on the bed and will run away saving my religion. I will give her 60 coins before going. 42.
Investigation: What did the king mean by not today? King was planning to indulge in sexual activity some other time? What were the 60 coins going to be given for? Was the prostitute a great preacher of Gurmat? Did she invent a special device to help people succeed in day to day activities? Does it mean it is good to give prostitutes money and make them happy? How low are the Panth enemies going to go to promote this garbage? Can these people ever be called Sikhs?
Dohra
She does not understand love. She only cares about money. Are scorpions, snakes and prostitutes ever friends of anyone? 43.
Increasing pleasure, the king made her drink a lot of liquor and to run away, he made her lofty and got her to sleep on the bed. 44.
The king fed her liquor with his own hands and through this act, drugged her up and made her sleep on the bed. 45.
Investigation: So Guru Sahib filled glasses of liquor with his own hands and got her to drink it with his own hands? Can anyone ever think of Guru Sahib filling glasses of liquor and putting them to the mouth of a woman? Is this Gurmat?
Arill
King filled glasses and fed her with his hands. He showed a lot of love towards the prostitute. When she got high and went to sleep, the king placed 60 coins there and ran away. 46.
If a woman loves you, do not love her. If she becomes intoxicated in you sweetness, do not ruin yourself in her sweetness. If you can not understand the feelings of a woman, make sure she doesn’t know the thought of your heart. 47.
Investigation: Why are the same lines being repeated again and again? It seems like the writer was also under influence of drugs while composing this garbage. When he says not to love woman, which woman is he talking about? Does it include the wife? Is it doesn’t then why isn’t it made clear? If it does include the wife, then how can 2 bodies function as one if there is no trust? Is this Gurmat philosophy?
Dohra
Making the woman unconscious (with drugs) and giving her 60 coins, the king ran away. He reached home and no one saw him coming. 48.
Investigation: So the king did indeed run away? If no one saw him coming home, then how did the writer know? The writer is none other than poet Raam. Is poet Raam the Guru of these chariter promoters? Those who do accept that these are writings of poets and say these are accepted writings, do they even know what Gurmat is? Also, who accepted these writings? Is mahant narainu and company or is it is children of narainu (also known as modern mahants)? So if someone wanted to make money, just act as a prostitute and try to lure Guru of Sikhs. Those who sell their souls to RSS are no better than prostitutes like Shujeeya.
Arill
Then the king came home and made a vow that he saved his faith this time with some good tricks. He vowed that he would now spread the greatness of his God throughout many countries and states. He also vowed not to look at other women. 49.
Investigation: Does this verse mean Guru Sahib wasn’t telling people about God or spreading greatness of God before? Does this mean Guru Sahib used to check out women before this incidence? How low are the chariter promoters going to get? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772
Dohra
The lesson from that day is in my heart. Since that day, I have not been looking at other women. 50.
Investigation: Once again, does this mean Guru Sahib used to look at women in a sexual way before this incidence? How low are the promoters of such garbage going to go? D they fear God or Guru? Do they have no shame insulting Guru who sacrificed everything for them? Do they have no shame defaming the Guru, due to whom they have huge bellies and make a living? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left? Will anyone take action? If you care and love Guru, then spread this article to everyone you know. Otherwise, you can join the chariter promoters and become an enemy of Guru. So it is up to you to decide on which side to take. Which one will you take? Will you spread this article to everyone you know who claims to be a Sikh?

Some lines such as “sandalwood, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor was brought” are repeated again and again. This shows that the writer wasn’t in the right state of mind when writing these chariters. This turns out to be more of a male chariter rather than a female chariter. Also, not to forget, in the end, the prostitute wins as her motive to collect money was also fulfilled. This is a direct attack towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No Sikh of Guru Nanak will tolerate this and can never accept this litter as Gurbani.

Chariter 16 translation and analysis completed!

Please kindly forgive any mistakes and provide any suggestions.

Harmanjit Singh
mannharm66@hotmail.com




Do you agree or disagree with the writer above? Why not share your immediate thoughts with us! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views... Gurfateh!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 11:10 AM
sahilmakkar1983's Avatar sahilmakkar1983 sahilmakkar1983 is offline
 
Enrolled: Nov 29th, 2006
Posts: 119
sahilmakkar1983 is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Humanism
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

GuruFateh

Ya its true, that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is singing the praises of SATNAM
but it also says that SATNAM is not SATNAM but SATNAM is unspoken(AJAPA) word
ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਘਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਇ ਦੇਇ ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ
घर महि घरु देखाइ देइ सो सतिगुरु पुरखु सुजाणु ॥
ghar meh ghar daykhaa-ay day-ay so satgur purakh sujaan.
The True Guru is the All-knowing Primal Being; He shows us our true home within the home of the self.

ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਧੁਨਿਕਾਰ ਧੁਨਿ ਤਹ ਬਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ
पंच सबद धुनिकार धुनि तह बाजै सबदु नीसाणु ॥
panch sabad Dhunikaar Dhun tah baajai sabad neesaan.
The Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, resonate and resound within; the insignia of the Shabad is revealed there, vibrating gloriously.

ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਤਹ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਹੈਰਾਨੁ
दीप लोअ पाताल तह खंड मंडल हैरानु ॥
deep lo-a paataal tah khand mandal hairaan.
Worlds and realms, nether regions, solar systems and galaxies are wondrously revealed.

ਤਾਰ ਘੋਰ ਬਾਜਿੰਤ੍ਰ ਤਹ ਸਾਚਿ ਤਖਤਿ ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772
तार घोर बाजिंत्र तह साचि तखति सुलतानु ॥
taar ghor baajintar tah saach takhat sultaan.
The strings and the harps vibrate and resound; the true throne of the Lord is there.

ਸੁਖਮਨ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਰਾਗੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ
सुखमन कै घरि रागु सुनि सुंनि मंडलि लिव लाइ ॥
sukhman kai ghar raag sun sunn mandal liv laa-ay.
Listen to the music of the home of the heart - Sukhmani, peace of mind. Lovingly tune in to His state of celestial ecstasy.

ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ
अकथ कथा बीचारीऐ मनसा मनहि समाइ ॥
akath kathaa beechaaree-ai mansaa maneh samaa-ay.
Contemplate the Unspoken Speech, and the desires of the mind are dissolved.

ਉਲਟਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਭਰਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਕਤਹੁ ਜਾਇ
उलटि कमलु अम्रिति भरिआ इहु मनु कतहु न जाइ ॥
ulat kamal amrit bhari-aa ih man katahu na jaa-ay.
The heart-lotus is turned upside-down, and is filled with Ambrosial Nectar. This mind does not go out; it does not get distracted.

ਅਜਪਾ ਜਾਪੁ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772
अजपा जापु न वीसरै आदि जुगादि समाइ ॥
ajpaa jaap na veesrai aad jugaad samaa-ay.
It does not forget the Chant which is chanted without chanting; it is immersed in the Primal Lord God of the ages.

ਸਭਿ ਸਖੀਆ ਪੰਚੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ
सभि सखीआ पंचे मिले गुरमुखि निज घरि वासु ॥
sabh sakhee-aa panchay milay gurmukh nij ghar vaas.
All the sister-companions are blessed with the five virtues. The Gurmukhs dwell in the home of the self deep within.

ਸਬਦੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਇਹੁ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
सबदु खोजि इहु घरु लहै नानकु ता का दासु ॥१॥
sabad khoj ih ghar lahai naanak taa kaa daas. ||1||
Nanak is the slave of that one who seeks the Shabad and finds this home within. ||1||

Please read the meaning of the lines
clearly stating that the master , guru is that who can show u the GOD within u
and ORANGE highlighted in b/w is clearly stating that NAAM is AJAPA
SATNAM is AJAPA

SVJKK SVJKF
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 11:24 AM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 30th, 2004
Location: world
Posts: 1,749
vijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished roadvijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 85 Times in 65 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Khalsa Fauj View Post
Side Note: We must know that the writer when referring to the king near Satluj river, is directing the talk towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is further made clear when it says that followers from all over the places came and received boons. Not only that, it also talks about the king being young and a religious leader. There should be no doubt that it is directed towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chariter 16
Dohra
Near the Satluj River, a king lived happily. A prostitute arrived in the city to make money. 1.
Investigation: Anandpur was newly established and was under control of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhs mostly lived there so it is hard to believe that a prostitute would have customers in Anandpur Sahib. Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Arill
Everyone knew her as Shujeeya but her lovers referred to her as Ludeeya. Every man who saw her, became attracted to her and received pleasure in the heart. 2.
Investigation: Who were her lovers? Were they Sikhs? The writer fails to make it clear. Did the Sikhs also become attracted to her and visited her? Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Dohra
She was attracted towards the king but she could not convince him. She thought about ideas to meet the king. 3.
(She thought) He doesn’t for love me so what should be done? He doesn’t come to my house and neither does he call me to his house). 4.
Some way has to be found to meet him fast. She thought that maybe he could be won over through jantars and mantars. 5.
She was exhausted trying jantars and mnatars but he king didn’t visit her. Then she plotted a ploy to allure the king. 6.
She dressed in orange clothing which the Yogis wear and bowed to the king when entering the king’s court. 7.
Investigation: Did the prostitute not know where she was going? Did she think that the Guru would fall for her? Is this not an attack on Guru Sahib? Is this not questioning the character of Guru Sahib? Then the writer says that she tries jantars and mantars. Maybe the writer didn’t know but Gurmat doesn’t agree to performing mantars. It is strictly against Gurmat. The writer again fails to mention that mantars are against Gurmat. Also Guru Ji was so unaware that he could not tell the difference between a woman dressed as a yogi and a man dressed as a yogi? Is this not an attack on the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
Arill
Seeing the Yogi, the king was impressed internally and thought about receiving some mantars from the yogi. King called a messenger, told him what to say and sent him to the Yogi (prostitute) so he the king could learn the skill of mantars. 8.
Investigation: Once again, the writer makes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a king searching for mantars. Someone could say that the mantars here don’t mean the magic spells but it means consultation or virtues. Even if that point is accepted, it still doesn’t make it correct as there is no reason to learn virtues from a yogi or have consultation with yogis on Panthic or even personal matters. Guru is the one who teaches others, not the other way around. However, the mantars here mean magic spells. This will be proven later in the chariter. Is this not slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Could someone promoting this garbage be considered a Sikh of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Is there any shame left?
Chaupai
King’s servant went to the Yogi. Whatever the king had said, the servant repeated to the Yogi. Servant asked the Yogi to give some mantars to the king and to please complete this task for his boss (king). 9.
Investigation: So Guru was sending his servants to make appointments to learn mantars from yogis? Why was Guru Sahib so desperate to learn mantars when they are not even as per Gurmat? Guru Sahib said something and did something?
Dohra
The yogi opened his/her eyes after 3 hours and told the servant to bring the king to her/his house if the king wanted to learn virtues. 10.
Bring him to me at midnight. With Gorakh’s blessing, the king will not go back empty handed. 11.
Investigation: Why did the yogi have her/his eyes closed for 3 hours? Closing eyes is also against Gurmat. Gurbani calls it hypocrisy and the writer again fails to mention this. The writer then says with Gorakh’s blessings; here Gorakh means Gorakh Naath the yogi. Gurmat only says to worship Akaal and look for help from Akaal. Not some deities or humans or saints, no matter how great they are. This is evidenced in the concept of ‘Pooja Akaal Kee’ meaning worship of God. God is worshipped by following Gurbani. Gorakh Naath was the founder of the yogi sect of Hinduism. Was Gorakh Nath greater than Guru Nanak that the 10th Nanak had to go to a follower of Gorakh to learn virtues? Guru Nanak proved the path of yogis wrong as evidenced in ‘Sidh Gost’ written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Tria Chariter promoters say that those questioning Tria Chariters are questioning Guru and Gurbani. After reading this verse, it should clear on who is questioning Guru and Gurbani.
Chaupai
The servant relayed the message back to the king and woke him up at midnight. He took the king to the yogi’s house. Upon seeing the king, the yogi felt great pleasure. 12.
Investigation: Who cares if the yogi felt pleasure or not. What does it have to do with Gurmat?
Dohra
Yogi asked the king to send all the people away from the site and call for sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 13.
The king did as asked and told the people to go away. He also received the sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 14.
Then the king sent all of his people away and stayed there pleasurably to learn the mantar. 15.
Investigation: What does liquor have to do with virtues and what do others items have to do with learning virtues? Items such as wick lamps, sandalwood, rice, flowers, etc. are used in learning mantars (magic spells) and not when learning virtues. Therefore, it should be clear that the mantars here mean magic spells which are against fundamentals of Gurmat. Once again the writer tries to make Guru Gobind Singh Ji look like a person who doesn’t know much about his surroundings. This is a direct attack on Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chaupai
When the king was alone, the yogi said that I will show you magic now and will teach you the mantar later. 16.
Investigation: Gurmat also doesn’t accept showing off of magic powers. Once again, the writer fails to mention that this is against Gurmat.
Dohra
From male, I will become a female, and then I will become a male again. Being a male, I will teach you mantar and being a female, I will have sex with you. 17.
Investigation: There should be no confusion here as this is not magic but a fraud. There is nothing special in looking like a woman and then looking like a man. Only a confused person would want to look like the opposite gender. Example, those who shave hair are usually confused as they want to cut hair and look more like females than males.
King Said:
The male who gives mantar is like a father and woman who gives mantar is like a mother. They are to be served and are not be had sexual intercourse with. 18.
Investigation: These statements which seem like the writer is promoting Gurmat are just sugar-coating on poison. Don’t be fooled by these.
Arill
Guru has to be served for mamy years and then after trying hard, the mantar has to be received. Therefore, it is proper to bow to Guru. Hey witty! Then tell me why should sex be had with him/her? 19.
Investigation: So suddenly the yogi becomes Guru of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Where are the brains of promoters of this slandering of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Do these people have mental problems? Is their mission to promote these yogis or other anti-Gurmat paths as better than the path of Guru Nanak? Who are the real slanderers of Guru? Promoters of such stories or the ones who oppose these?
Chaupai
Then the yogi said that I performed his clever act to meet you. Now have sex with me my beloved. Now get on my bed. 20.
Investigation: Did the woman think that Guru Sahib was so easily going to get on her bed and have sex with her?
Dohra
My body has been thirsting to meet you and my body parts have become weak. Hey beloved! Come and accommodate yourself on my bed and make love with me today. 21.
If you try to run away then I will get you caught as a thief and if you let me go, I will speak foul to you. Otherwise, have sex with me without a thought. 22.
When a woman, filled with lust, comes to the one who she loves and if the loved one lets her go without fulfilling her desire, that person shall be thrown in deep hell. 23.
If a woman’s body is filled with lust but a man refuses to fulfill her desires, he should be thrown into the deep pit of hell. 24.
Investigation: So people of Anandpur had the character of Guru Sahib in question that they would believe a prostitute and accept Guru Ji as a thief? Guru Ji wasn’t like a lot of the Gurudwara committee members or granthis who steal money from Gurudwaras. Did the prostitute seriously think that her threats and tactics were going to work? What are the threats of being thrown in hell to Guru? Even Sikhs don’t care about hell or heaven so then why would Guru believe in it? Gurmat rejects the hells and heavens after death. Writer again fails to preach Gurmat and keeps promoting Sikhs and their Guru as followers of Hindu philosophy.
Arill
Creator has given me birth in the house of a prostitute. I took the appearance of a Yogi to meet you. Now quickly place yourself on my bed. I will live as your slave. Don’t make me more anxious. 25.
Investigation: So is it Guru’s fault that she is born in a prostitute’s house? She didn’t have to be a prostitute. What is the purpose of writing that the appearance of yogi was only taken to meet the king? Also Guru Sahib didn’t look for slaves. Guru Sahib freed the people from slavery; not made them slaves.
Dohra
So what if you are smart and are young adult. I have been pierced by separation from you so don’t leave my desire unfilled. 26.
Investigation: It looks like the woman is lecturing Guru on what to do rather than Guru Sahib lecturing her on what is right and what is wrong.
Arill
Don’t waste the time anymore. I am under control of lust. I am drowned in lust up to my head. Don’t let me off with sexual intercourse and don’t have ego due to my desire like black clouded night. 27.
People come to you from all over the places and receive the boons which they wish for. What wrong have I done that I can not have you? I will be the slave of your slaves. Proceed to my bed. 28.
The king said that he came to learn mantars and that she played this act. Why should I have sexual intercourse with you? I am really scared of falling from my faith. 29.
Investigation: Then the prostitute accuses Guru Sahib of having ego because he didn’t agree to her wishes according to the story. Is it ego to keep moral code of conduct and refuse to participate it morally corrupt acts? So Guru Sahib refused to have sex because of fear of falling from faith and nothing to do with morals and shame? If Guru Sahib wasn’t the Guru of Sikhs, he would have agreed to the prostitute and participated in sexual activity? How low are the Tria Chariter promoters going to fall morally? Don’t these people fear God when they slander Guru by linking such garbage to Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
That woman tried persuasion through many ways. She tried many opinions and persuasions. She tried many jantars and mantars. However, she could not persuade the king into her hands. 30.
Investigation: Mantars don’t work on Gursikhs so forget about trying them on Guru. Shows the lack of knowledge the writer has.
Arill
She went into the veranda and started shouting “thief” “thief”. She tried to scare the king to meet him. She came back to him and said to listen to her. She said that the king can either have sex with her or she will get him tied up. 31.
Hearing “thief” “thief”, people came to the location. Woman told the people that she started talking while in her sleep. When the people were gone, she held the hand of the king. She told the king to have sexual intercourse with or her face being tied up. 32.
Investigation: It says the king’s hand was held by her. Didn’t the king snap his hand away from her? Guru Sahib didn’t mind prostitutes holding his hand? Isn’t this an attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Dohra
Then the king thought in his mind that the concept of mantars is to put on an act and run away. 33.
If I run, I lose honor. If I have sexual intercourse, I fall from religion. Due to both of these issues, the situation has become very hard to handle. May God protect me now. 34.
Then king thought that if a son is born, he will become a pimp and if a daughter is born, she will be a prostitute. By having sexual intercourse, religion is lost and by running, I will be tied up. 35.
Investigation: Does the verse talking about having pimp or prostitute as child according to Gurmat? Does this mean Guru Sahib would have fulfilled her wish had it not been the fear of child being born as prostitute or pimp? Is this not a direct attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
King said, “hey beloved! Listen to me. I was just checking you devotion towards me. Whoever finds a beautiful woman like you and lets her go, is a big imbecile. 36.
Investigation: The woman keeps calling Guru Sahib as beloved in a *******ed way and Guru Sahib doesn’t say a word to stop her? How low the chariter promoters going to go to link this garbage to Guru Sahib? Would Guru Sahib ever say that the one who lets go of a beautiful woman is an idiot? When are these enemies of Guru and Guru’s Panth going to stop attacking Guru and Gurmat?
Dohra
If a beautiful woman like you is received, anyone who thinks about forsaking her, his having birth is shameful. 37.
Get a large amount of poppy husk, cannabis, and opium quickly. Being happy from the heart, feed me cannabis. 38.
You drink a lot of liquor and feed me cannabis. I will have sexual intercourse with you for 12 hours. 39.
Investigation: So all those who follow Gurmat had no point in being born? Is this not a direct attack on Gurmat? Is this what the naked legs ones read and promote as Gurmat? Would Guru Sahib ever order drugs? Would Guru Sahib ever tell a woman who doesn’t belong to him that he would have sex with her for 12 hours? Are these stories the reasons why they are often caught in sex scandals or rapes? Can these people ever be considered Sikhs? According to the rehat maryada, they can not be. This is the reason why they reject the rehat maryada and make their own maraydas. Who are the real enemies of Guru? Those who promote garbage like this or the ones who oppose it?
Chaupai
Without knowing, she became joyful after listening to these words. She could not tell between fact and falseness. Being really happy in the heart, she ordered the drugs the king had ordered. 40.
Investigation: The writer seems to have a grudge against women. Maybe his wife ran away or performed one the tricks on someone else. What is so great about fooling women? Is this Gurmat?
Dohra
Poppy husk, cannabis, opium and deep grinded cannabis and liquor prepared seven times were brought. 41.
Investigation: Isn’t this verse promoting drugs? Not once have drugs been denounced in the chariter. Would Guru Sahib not say how bad drugs are? Shows that this isn’t work of Guru Sahib.
Arill
Then the king thought in the mind. Today I will not have sex with her. This is the wisdom from the mantar. I will make her really high on drugs and lie her down on the bed and will run away saving my religion. I will give her 60 coins before going. 42.
Investigation: What did the king mean by not today? King was planning to indulge in sexual activity some other time? What were the 60 coins going to be given for? Was the prostitute a great preacher of Gurmat? Did she invent a special device to help people succeed in day to day activities? Does it mean it is good to give prostitutes money and make them happy? How low are the Panth enemies going to go to promote this garbage? Can these people ever be called Sikhs?
Dohra
She does not understand love. She only cares about money. Are scorpions, snakes and prostitutes ever friends of anyone? 43.
Increasing pleasure, the king made her drink a lot of liquor and to run away, he made her lofty and got her to sleep on the bed. 44.
The king fed her liquor with his own hands and through this act, drugged her up and made her sleep on the bed. 45.
Investigation: So Guru Sahib filled glasses of liquor with his own hands and got her to drink it with his own hands? Can anyone ever think of Guru Sahib filling glasses of liquor and putting them to the mouth of a woman? Is this Gurmat?
Arill
King filled glasses and fed her with his hands. He showed a lot of love towards the prostitute. When she got high and went to sleep, the king placed 60 coins there and ran away. 46.
If a woman loves you, do not love her. If she becomes intoxicated in you sweetness, do not ruin yourself in her sweetness. If you can not understand the feelings of a woman, make sure she doesn’t know the thought of your heart. 47.
Investigation: Why are the same lines being repeated again and again? It seems like the writer was also under influence of drugs while composing this garbage. When he says not to love woman, which woman is he talking about? Does it include the wife? Is it doesn’t then why isn’t it made clear? If it does include the wife, then how can 2 bodies function as one if there is no trust? Is this Gurmat philosophy?
Dohra
Making the woman unconscious (with drugs) and giving her 60 coins, the king ran away. He reached home and no one saw him coming. 48.
Investigation: So the king did indeed run away? If no one saw him coming home, then how did the writer know? The writer is none other than poet Raam. Is poet Raam the Guru of these chariter promoters? Those who do accept that these are writings of poets and say these are accepted writings, do they even know what Gurmat is? Also, who accepted these writings? Is mahant narainu and company or is it is children of narainu (also known as modern mahants)? So if someone wanted to make money, just act as a prostitute and try to lure Guru of Sikhs. Those who sell their souls to RSS are no better than prostitutes like Shujeeya.
Arill
Then the king came home and made a vow that he saved his faith this time with some good tricks. He vowed that he would now spread the greatness of his God throughout many countries and states. He also vowed not to look at other women. 49.
Investigation: Does this verse mean Guru Sahib wasn’t telling people about God or spreading greatness of God before? Does this mean Guru Sahib used to check out women before this incidence? How low are the chariter promoters going to get? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left?
Dohra
The lesson from that day is in my heart. Since that day, I have not been looking at other women. 50.
Investigation: Once again, does this mean Guru Sahib used to look at women in a sexual way before this incidence? How low are the promoters of such garbage going to go? D they fear God or Guru? Do they have no shame insulting Guru who sacrificed everything for them? Do they have no shame defaming the Guru, due to whom they have huge bellies and make a living? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left? Will anyone take action? If you care and love Guru, then spread this article to everyone you know. Otherwise, you can join the chariter promoters and become an enemy of Guru. So it is up to you to decide on which side to take. Which one will you take? Will you spread this article to everyone you know who claims to be a Sikh?

Some lines such as “sandalwood, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor was brought” are repeated again and again. This shows that the writer wasn’t in the right state of mind when writing these chariters. This turns out to be more of a male chariter rather than a female chariter. Also, not to forget, in the end, the prostitute wins as her motive to collect money was also fulfilled. This is a direct attack towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No Sikh of Guru Nanak will tolerate this and can never accept this litter as Gurbani.

Chariter 16 translation and analysis completed!

Please kindly forgive any mistakes and provide any suggestions.


Harmanjit Singh

mannharm66@hotmail.com
das has given the things which tells tha where are you going wrong.

Read them again only first post is reposted. and rest read from above again.

Gurfateh

Das was bust with some offline work so was awy,Akal thanks God so that Das can reply Bhai TKF.

Anyway Das is first tryting to conclude his article.


Gurfateh
So das first takes Into account of 5 things in
Character 16 which some can say look similar to that of Guru.It is strange that our brothers with some racial Punjabi jattism tend to forget that Charectors are not eroticas.
So das will take care of first point
1.the first line.
One bankof/near Satiluj,Happened to be a lord,living(and) having comforts.
For the wealth one Ramjani came to his place.1.
His place use to have wealth and one ramjani came there.1
For wealth one Ramjani came to that place.1.
There are three interpretations of the second line and last one is remotest.Das reads hote(happened to be/use to be) and not Het(for) in version which das has.Maybe Translitration from Gurmukhi to Nagri has caused this mistake.

Das will touch both the cases.
But better is to take the remotest case first.
For the purpose of Mony only Ramjani came to that place.(in other two cases place is termed wealthy or king is termed wealthy and coming Ramjani is written.It is still not written that Ramjani came to place to have mony) .But if it is het,then she came to his place or that ploace to get wealth.
Ramjani litraly means been born by God or delivered by God.As prostitutes may not know who there father is(if born from mother in same profession) so God only is her father.
Das looked if there could be some farsi conection as ram is used in farsi like Ramsar(a place on the bank of Caspian sea)Ramjanga(gun) but Jani may not have meaning as far as das is interested.Term zan is used for lady.
So can the bank of Satiluj be Anandpur Sahib only?
Answer is no.
Satluj is river older then Himlayas and is trans himlayan river.It strats from tibbet ,moves into India wide Himachal(making U shaped valley in Himalaya) then enters Punjab plains and then enter Pakistan and further ahead making way for Indus.It moves more then 400 kilometers.(das can write whole geological story about relation Satluj had with Euraisa and Gandvanaland but all such is beyond the scope of this text.When writer use to write such things in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji,then guys use to raise eybrow .When some one is blessed by Akal,the endless,the knowledge endless,then it is OK to not to put all info else point could be over shadowed.Das’s knowledge is anyway still not vey much)
Say Bank of yamuna can be Paunta Sahib,Delhi,Mathura and up till Allahbad.Rai or lord is mentioned in first line but later on from 10,13,14 lines pair have term king also.And King is repeated again.
There has been traditions in Hindus to have term rai added to them(Britshers use to tag their jackals as Rai Bahadur)Examples are Medini Rai(of Raisen,central India),Krishandev Raya,Achyut Raya(of Vijay Nagar,South India),Biji Rai(Last Hindu king of Sialkot).
Muslims also held this title and das will give two on the either sides of Satluj.Rai Bular(in north west) and Rai Kala(in south),both have importance in Sikh history.
As we see from the case of Ranjha(Dido Queshi of Takhat Hazara),Muslim Rais also had interst in Yoga(as he become Yogi of Gorakhnath).Biji Rai also once became Muslim Nasha Shah but before defeat from Ghauri reverts to pagan faith.
Also das would like to mention Naqshbandi,who are forefathers of present days wahabis. Their Shekh Ahmad was responsible for martyer dom of Fifth Master.They were at Sirhinds.They had whole system ini their language about various glands or Chakras as in yogis.In Pranayams nose is closed.Naqsh is nose and band is to close.
We see that in 21st Charitar we are given under Eye peak and name Anandpur to exact location for the place.Same can be read at end of Ram Avtar,ie under the foot of eye peak,one the bank of Satiluj.
But in last Charitar after date it is only mentioned that at the bank of Satiluj.In there also it may not mean that Guru write it at Anandpur Sahib,There also we should know that some other palce also clould be there on the bank of Satiluj where Guru eneded dialogue of Minster and Landowner/king .Guru did write at Paunta Sahib,He did write Jaffernama outside Anandpur Sahib and Sarbloh Granrth was all the more written after leaving Anandpur Sahib.
There were many War which Guru faught with Hindu Kings,and while stalking them in hills or say near Kiratpur Sahib or otherwise also,why can not Guru also write outside Anandppur Sahib.Alexender use to write while on mission.Why can not Guru do this?
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 11:42 AM
sahilmakkar1983's Avatar sahilmakkar1983 sahilmakkar1983 is offline
 
Enrolled: Nov 29th, 2006
Posts: 119
sahilmakkar1983 is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Humanism
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

GuruFateh,

Ya its true, that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is singing the praises of SATNAM
but it also says that SATNAM is not SATNAM but SATNAM is unspoken(AJAPA) word
ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਘਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਇ ਦੇਇ ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772
घर महि घरु देखाइ देइ सो सतिगुरु पुरखु सुजाणु ॥
ghar meh ghar daykhaa-ay day-ay so satgur purakh sujaan.
The True Guru is the All-knowing Primal Being; He shows us our true home within the home of the self.

ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਧੁਨਿਕਾਰ ਧੁਨਿ ਤਹ ਬਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ
पंच सबद धुनिकार धुनि तह बाजै सबदु नीसाणु ॥
panch sabad Dhunikaar Dhun tah baajai sabad neesaan.
The Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, resonate and resound within; the insignia of the Shabad is revealed there, vibrating gloriously.

ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਤਹ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਹੈਰਾਨੁ
दीप लोअ पाताल तह खंड मंडल हैरानु ॥
deep lo-a paataal tah khand mandal hairaan.
Worlds and realms, nether regions, solar systems and galaxies are wondrously revealed.

ਤਾਰ ਘੋਰ ਬਾਜਿੰਤ੍ਰ ਤਹ ਸਾਚਿ ਤਖਤਿ ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ
तार घोर बाजिंत्र तह साचि तखति सुलतानु ॥
taar ghor baajintar tah saach takhat sultaan.
The strings and the harps vibrate and resound; the true throne of the Lord is there.

ਸੁਖਮਨ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਰਾਗੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ
सुखमन कै घरि रागु सुनि सुंनि मंडलि लिव लाइ ॥
sukhman kai ghar raag sun sunn mandal liv laa-ay.
Listen to the music of the home of the heart - Sukhmani, peace of mind. Lovingly tune in to His state of celestial ecstasy.

ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ
अकथ कथा बीचारीऐ मनसा मनहि समाइ ॥
akath kathaa beechaaree-ai mansaa maneh samaa-ay.
Contemplate the Unspoken Speech, and the desires of the mind are dissolved.

ਉਲਟਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਭਰਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਕਤਹੁ ਜਾਇ
उलटि कमलु अम्रिति भरिआ इहु मनु कतहु न जाइ ॥
ulat kamal amrit bhari-aa ih man katahu na jaa-ay.
The heart-lotus is turned upside-down, and is filled with Ambrosial Nectar. This mind does not go out; it does not get distracted.

ਅਜਪਾ ਜਾਪੁ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772
अजपा जापु न वीसरै आदि जुगादि समाइ ॥
ajpaa jaap na veesrai aad jugaad samaa-ay.
It does not forget the Chant which is chanted without chanting; it is immersed in the Primal Lord God of the ages.

ਸਭਿ ਸਖੀਆ ਪੰਚੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ
सभि सखीआ पंचे मिले गुरमुखि निज घरि वासु ॥
sabh sakhee-aa panchay milay gurmukh nij ghar vaas.
All the sister-companions are blessed with the five virtues. The Gurmukhs dwell in the home of the self deep within.

ਸਬਦੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਇਹੁ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
सबदु खोजि इहु घरु लहै नानकु ता का दासु ॥१॥
sabad khoj ih ghar lahai naanak taa kaa daas. ||1||
Nanak is the slave of that one who seeks the Shabad and finds this home within. ||1||

Please read the meaning of the lines
clearly stating that the master , guru is that who can show u the GOD within u
and ORANGE highlighted in b/w is clearly stating that NAAM is AJAPA
SATNAM is AJAPA

SVJKK SVJKF
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 11:49 AM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 30th, 2004
Location: world
Posts: 1,749
vijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished roadvijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 85 Times in 65 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

Gurfateh

Quote:
Biggest foes are direct Guru Nindaks so they need to be handled first.
They have to be handled with iron fist,but do you have that. ?
Quote:
Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't give new philosophy. It was the same as that of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
Then why Singh and Why Khalsa?for you Palace and foundation is same,it can be for you but not for all.
Quote:
Poets have identified themselves and that is enough for me.
so in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,when word Nanak Does not come in verse,you may not follw that?And if it is conspiracy of hindus or Brahmins then why should poets give thier names?
Quote:
Sikhs were already keeping the rehats.
Do you know that there was case in Delhi court when higher castes refused to take Sabres Amrit as they find it unfit to share with lower caste.Guru sent message favouring the lower castes.



Quote:
Guru Sahib just finalized them. Sikhs were carrying Kirpans since time of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji. Maybe you don't know but Guru Sahib only defended. Saving people from looters or saving daughters from devils is defending, not offending.
In War of Nadaun,guru took prememptive actions and so was the war of Haoshiyarpur.

Karni Nammah tells Raj Karega Khalsa only after Tenth Master.

Kirpan was sorry Khanda was there with First Master also(can be seen at Patna Sahib muesium) But he did not make an Army for fight Baber,He first made people arise.Final is differant from intial.
If someone reads all the charters with open mind, the person know what is work of which poet.
Quote:
There is nothing to decode in shund #s. It is a mess up by uneducated people.
Thats the mani messed up things in narrow mind.

what you call uneducated people due to class or caste bias are lower caste wyou are been arose to revolt by Guru.
Quote:
Guru Sahib never read Chandi Di Var for Bir russ as it wasn't needed. Neither is it needed now.
Prove it.

Old book from Bhangus says somtething else.

do not go Army,but learn Gatka and real one.When you get the cut on the neck,das has one on wrist.Then you will be able to know what is imporatnce of Chandi Di Var or Ugradanti.Das is sure that you do not know any.
Quote:
Guru Sahib gave Dhadi Vars to get bir russ. Some dhadis do sing chandi di var but it isn't Gurmat.
Prove this.

Anyway in war we do not have to take Dhadis in Battle fied.We had Drums or Nagras in past.But presently at Hola or Gatka,we have dhols.And in real war time.We need Kanth Bani of Tenth Master,rather unto Tenth Master.


Quote:
Number of dasam granth promoters is decreasing daily. If you don't believe me, then see for yourself. Other than the 10-15 sell out scholars. No other scholar accepts it.
So if RSS says to you that Sikhs are cutting thier hairs and becoming Hindu day by day,so we should act like sheep.

This also is your false Propoganda.

All real scholars respect truth and do not lie being cought in web of idelogy.
Quote:
Also, Vijaydeep, you aren't the only scholar of Braaj or Sanskrit. Get rid of your ego and stop attacking missionaries.
Das has no ego.But are you an able scholar of Punjabi,which is relavent to Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Das has sense of belonging to Missioaries.Das does not slanders but brings out thier weakness so that,they rectify the mistake.

did not das talked about some matters of indifferance with AKJ,Nihungs or Taksal.Read all the posts of das,and you will find.

Das wants missionries to think and do postive,motre time of them is spent in condeming Sants and Brahmins,while Sants are getting popular.

Supporters of missionaries are getting less.

Das has discussed this issue while talking about work of Bhia Sumra.
Quote:
It was missionaries who kicked people like narianu out of Darbar Sahib. It was missionaries who launched and won the Morchas.
Did your derawalas win any morcha they launched?
They failed in all of them. Why? Because of dasam granth.
Was Maula Singh a missionary?Was Akali Kaur Singh a missionary?Was Baba Kaladhair a missionary?Was AKJ or Taksal guy missioary?Was Kartar Singh Jhaber a missionry?

They were Panthic.


Where have Dra Wallha failed? and how das is Dear Wall? and why due to Dasham Granth?Elaborate?90% plus guuys have not read,some like you have only read punjabi translations.

So called scholars of Sanskrit or Braj have learnt this languae for Academic,thing,not thier mother tongue or LAnguage of thier use.Braj Das can speak a little having a house in Braj Area.Sanskrit das used as language of worship when being a Hindu.

By the way one questioon for you.Which language is used the most in Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

more from privous posts

Gurfateh

Quote:
“There is pricess in Bharatpur and MP of BJP called Krishendra Kaur.Kaur is word related to work and non Sikhs also use that.Term Koer and not Kaur is writtan for Anup Koer.But for you Tainka and Tatta are one and the same.”
What is pricess? I can’t find that word in dictionary. Did the writer mean prices? Doesn’t make sense. Tainka is t and tuttaa is q. Someone who doesn’t know how to properly read Punjabi or understand Punjabi (self admitted) is teaching me how to read Punjabi. Now biharis are going to teach Punjabis how to read Punjabi. What is the world coming to? I didn’t say there aren’t other kaurs. Where did I say other people can’t be kaurs? However, how do you know that the person isn’t trying to defame the Sikh Kaurs?


Term is princess.Thats Ok

Tutta is differant from Tatta it is U and A thing.

Das can understand Lehanda Punjabi as his maternal sides si of Punjabis.Doabi type thing is diffcult.

Das writes a dhola for you.

Balura Katura Sheen Akhaye
Sardul Dehendya Sahika Jaye.

Jus tot let you know that das knows some dialect of Lehnda punjabi.First Master had Bani in this dialect unto him.


Bihari ,Punjabi,Jaat/Teli or Jatt does not matter for a Baptised Sikh as we are told that our Birth place in Anadpur Sahib.

In India,Punjabi is more an abuse refering to Lalas,who are blood suckers and Sirdar JI is title for Sikhs and it is with respect.

Das will touch Kaur issue in next para.

Quote:
Are you awawe that there is place near Vaishnu Devi called Adi Kuwari and in south as Kanya Kumari.Kumari means doughter.”
What is awawe? I have never seen that word in dictionary either. Kuare kuAir does mean kumari also but in Punjab people don’t have names like that. Kaur also means princess. So the lady can be a Sikh girl in chariters 21-23 but who knows what poet the poet means. It is not like the poet was a Sikh. Raam, Shyam, Kal or Soom aren’t Sikhs. Do you think I care about your vaishnu devi? She is just mythical like 24 avtar.

In Punjab and further north ,Hindus do have such name.Grand mother of Das had name Kailash Kumari.

Das put refreance for just to tell yuo about Hindu name north of Punjab.

Akal is not only Sikh but Guru also and Ram,Siam are names of the name.All names are of Akal.

Quote:
“No even a single time term came Anup Kaur.Term is noop Ku-ari to be pronounced as Noop Kuwari.”
True that it doesn’t come as Anoop Kaur but it is not Noop Ku-ari either. It is Noop Kuar. It is very important to learn to pronounce Gumukhi. Learning the alphabet isn’t good enough to pronounce Punjabi words.
Kuare kuAir does have 2 meanings:
  • A girl under 5 years old
  • A princess. (what is the last name of Sikh women?)
Is the language Punajbi over there?Is that not Braj?

do you know that hindu,Hindi etc are not Hindi words so are Punjab and Punjabis are Punjabis words,Can you tell me how?

Let us see your language skills.

Dictionary is of Punjabi,the way it may not have terms of Sanskrit and farsi of Gurbani,so does it will not have meaning of Braj.

Das Gives you Gurmukhi scripts for Both Kaur and ku-ari and let see which is meant by Hindu and which is meant by a Sikh.


for you this can be same as you want this

ਕੌਰ and ਕੁਅਰਿ but are you sure that this ku-ari is not used for other Hindus in same text only?Ku ar is used and Ku ari is also used.Read the Chairters which Bhai Sumra has pointed.Yuo will find some gudance over there.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
“But if a prostitute also becomes Amritdhari we have no problem.
Did not term prostitue come in Guru Granth Sahib?
Have look.Guru ranth Sahib Ji talked of reforming them too.”
I don’t accept prostitutes becoming Amritdhari. This is too much. Prostitute must live a good life as juttee jqI sutte for like 10-15 years before she can be called Amritdhari. Here I mean juttee jqI according to Gurmat and not according to brahmnical philosophy. When did I say Guru Granth Sahib Ji doesn’t talk about reforming bad people? RSS agents should be reformed too. So should be tria chariter followers. However, some pass the line and are too far to be reformed. Where did I say that the term prostitute doesn’t come in Guru Granth Sahib Ji? People should respect Guru Granth Sahib Ji and shouldn’t say “Guru ranth Sahib Ji”. Thirty points aren’t needed to prove a point. For me, one Gurbani tukh is enough. Proves that there is no need for tria chariters and there is no way it could have been written by Guru Ji, especially when the poets clearly identify themselves. I will post quotes later. Remind me if I don’t as I have a fairly busy schedule.

Das is sorry,it should be Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Das understands that you do not want practising Prostitue to be an Amritdhari.But what about lady who leaves her job after baptism?

From where do you find 15 years or so probations.

And some people can not be refrom as you say was the idelogy of Brahmin Surdas,And Guru Ji edited the verse,in which he said that as blot sort of a thing is irremovblae so that people can not be reformed.

ਛਾਡਿ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਮੁਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੰਗੁ
छाडि मन हरि बिमुखन को संगु ॥
chhaad man har bimukhan ko sang.
O mind, do not even associate with those who have turned their backs on the Lord.

ਸਾਰੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ਸੂਰਦਾਸ
सारंग महला ५ सूरदास ॥
saarang mehlaa 5 soordaas.
Saarang, Fifth Mehl, Sur Daas:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਸੰਗ ਬਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਲੋਕ
हरि के संग बसे हरि लोक ॥
har kay sang basay har lok.
The people of the Lord dwell with the Lord.

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਅਰਪਿ ਸਰਬਸੁ ਸਭੁ ਅਰਪਿਓ ਅਨਦ ਸਹਜ ਧੁਨਿ ਝੋਕ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
तनु मनु अरपि सरबसु सभु अरपिओ अनद सहज धुनि झोक ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
tan man arap sarbas sabh arpi-o anad sahj Dhun jhok. ||1|| rahaa-o.
They dedicate their minds and bodies to Him; they dedicate everything to Him. They are intoxicated with the celestial melody of intuitive ecstasy. ||1||Pause||

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪੇਖਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰਬਿਖਈ ਪਾਏ ਹੈ ਸਗਲੇ ਥੋਕ
दरसनु पेखि भए निरबिखई पाए है सगले थोक ॥
darsan paykh bha-ay nirbikha-ee paa-ay hai saglay thok.
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan, they are cleansed of corruption. They obtain absolutely everything.

ਆਨ ਬਸਤੁ ਸਿਉ ਕਾਜੁ ਕਛੂਐ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਬਦਨ ਅਲੋਕ ॥੧॥
आन बसतु सिउ काजु न कछूऐ सुंदर बदन अलोक ॥१॥
aan basat si-o kaaj na kachhoo-ai sundar badan alok. ||1||
They have nothing to do with anything else; they gaze on the beauteous Face of God. ||1||

ਸਿਆਮ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਤਜਿ ਆਨ ਜੁ ਚਾਹਤ ਜਿਉ ਕੁਸਟੀ ਤਨਿ ਜੋਕ
सिआम सुंदर तजि आन जु चाहत जिउ कुसटी तनि जोक ॥
si-aam sundar taj aan jo chaahat ji-o kustee tan jok.
But one who forsakes the elegantly beautiful Lord, and harbors desire for anything else, is like a leech on the body of a leper.

ਸੂਰਦਾਸ ਮਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਹਥਿ ਲੀਨੋ ਦੀਨੋ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਲੋਕ ॥੨॥੧॥੮॥
सूरदास मनु प्रभि हथि लीनो दीनो इहु परलोक ॥२॥१॥८॥
soordaas man parabh hath leeno deeno ih parlok. ||2||1||8||
Says Sur Daas, God has taken my mind in His Hands. He has blessed me with the world beyond. ||2||1||8||
Ang 1253

first line only is by Surdas Ji or Onto him and then next line is not allowed and Verse by Fifth Master comes.

Anyone can be reformed by Akal,examples of Ajamil and Ganika are given only to show might of Akal,capable to do anything.

Quote:
“Another non snese thing.
Listen son
You are helping your hindu family.Hindus can have name Anup Kumari(this not even a single time comes in any Charitar).
Why das says that you help hindus.Since times before Muslims came Hindus have tradtions of prostitues.They were refered as Ganika,Veshya etc.And such names are used in Guru Granth Sahib.There is mention of one Urdu name called ***** also but in Punjabi that is meant by widow.
Other names are Tawaif and kidli.Das could not found a single in that character you are after ie 21 to 23.And lastly since the time before Muslims came to this date it is as per regious santity that Hindus have devdasis ie Prostitutes in temples.And they were mostly Muslim?”
What is non snese? Did the writer mean non sneeze? What does sneezing have to do with tria chariters? Is it abshagun? Gurmat doesn’t believe in sagans or absagans. I help everyone who asks for help. I think good for all in the world. World is in turmoil and will stay this way until Akaal does blessing. Of course hindus have prostitutes. That is why those types of people wrote tria chariters so they can pull the Sikhs to the same boat but it will not happen. Sikhs are waking up and will take charge when Akaal orders. Your knowledge on prostitutes doesn’t help promote kaam shaster as Guru written. It is still the work of soom, raam, shyam and kal. I not talking about prostitutes in mandirs. Mandirs have a tradition of having devdaasis. Mandirs in still have them. A lot of other ones were Muslim.
Read is non Sense.

Ganika is prostitue for King as per Hinduism.As per you Temples prostitue should be holy that we should not call her prostitue?

Ram,Syam all are name of Akal.Read name in a verse in prvious Para.

hindus doing this and Sikhs doing that is nothing more then useless jingoism.

What Sikhs have to do Sikhs are doing and Hindus have no say in front of them.



Quote:
“And this lady is just at strart being mentioned as wife of wealthy?Are you blind?”
This is another direct attack to disrespect me. Where did I noup kuar was poor? Quote it. Why are two chariters being mixed up? Chariters 21-23 and 16 are different. They should not be fixed. If the difference between chariters can’t be hold by some people, how can they tell the difference between Gurbani and stories of corruption? Gurmat is about Guru and Akaal. Gurbanis connects the person to Akaal and brings peace of mind while tria chariters make all relationships in the world questionable. E.g. No one is willing to accept such garbage as tria chariters as Gurbani unless the person is anti-Panthic or uneducated.
Was there not a question that prostitues were Muslims then why name Kaur comes for them.There is no sikh lady nor term Kaur is there.

Das is sorry that he hurt your ego.forgive this foolish filthy lower caste Bihairi.yuo are great and those who do not follow you are fools and mad.Happy.

coming to realtionship issue.They are been told about non Sikhs and exposing the hypocry in them vide Charitropakhyan.

Uneducated things,thats what das wanted to let you know that what you call undeucated,They are the and were the real farmers(jatt) Grazier(Gujars)Sweepers(Churha) whose langauge is used to oppse thieir oppressers.

sometime Gurbani reading also does not bring peace but arise to do war.Jo Lahre Deen Ke Haith.BUt wil of god for peace bringing is needed.

To das Triya Charitar brings epace mre with 266 and 405.Latter one has Chaupyee Sahib das read daily in evening.

See about realtionships.

ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
देवगंधारी महला ९ ॥
dayvganDhaaree mehlaa 9.
Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Ninth Mehl:

ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਜੀਵਤ ਕੋ ਬਿਵਹਾਰ
सभ किछु जीवत को बिवहार ॥
sabh kichh jeevat ko bivhaar.
All things are mere diversions of life:

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਭਾਈ ਸੁਤ ਬੰਧਪ ਅਰੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੀ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
मात पिता भाई सुत बंधप अरु फुनि ग्रिह की नारि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
maat pitaa bhaa-ee sut banDhap ar fun garih kee naar. ||1|| rahaa-o.
mother, father, siblings, children, relatives and the wife of your home. ||1||Pause||

ਤਨ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹੋਤ ਜਬ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਟੇਰਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤਿ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ
तन ते प्रान होत जब निआरे टेरत प्रेति पुकारि ॥
tan tay paraan hot jab ni-aaray tayrat parayt pukaar.
When the soul is separated from the body, then they will cry out, calling you a ghost.

ਆਧ ਘਰੀ ਕੋਊ ਨਹਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਘਰ ਤੇ ਦੇਤ ਨਿਕਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
आध घरी कोऊ नहि राखै घर ते देत निकारि ॥१॥
aaDh gharee ko-oo neh raakhai ghar tay dayt nikaar. ||1||
No one will let you stay, for even half an hour; they drive you out of the house. ||1||

ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਜਿਉ ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਯਹ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ
म्रिग त्रिसना जिउ जग रचना यह देखहु रिदै बिचारि ॥
marig tarisnaa ji-o jag rachnaa yeh daykhhu ridai bichaar.
The created world is like an illusion, a mirage - see this, and reflect upon it in your mind.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਤ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਹੋਤ ਉਧਾਰ ॥੨॥੨॥
कहु नानक भजु राम नाम नित जा ते होत उधार ॥२॥२॥
kaho naanak bhaj raam naam nit jaa tay hot uDhaar. ||2||2||
Says Nanak, vibrate forever the Name of the Lord, which shall deliver you. ||2||2||

Ang 536
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
रागु गूजरी महला ५ ॥
raag goojree mehlaa 5.
Raag Goojaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਾਹੇ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਉਦਮੁ ਜਾ ਆਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਪਰਿਆ
काहे रे मन चितवहि उदमु जा आहरि हरि जीउ परिआ ॥
kaahay ray man chitvahi udam jaa aahar har jee-o pari-aa.
Why, O mind, do you plot and plan, when the Dear Lord Himself provides for your care?

ਸੈਲ ਪਥਰ ਮਹਿ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਏ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰਿ ਧਰਿਆ ॥੧॥
सैल पथर महि जंत उपाए ता का रिजकु आगै करि धरिआ ॥१॥
sail pathar meh jant upaa-ay taa kaa rijak aagai kar Dhari-aa. ||1||
From rocks and stones He created living beings; He places their nourishment before them. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਜੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੁ ਤਰਿਆ
मेरे माधउ जी सतसंगति मिले सु तरिआ ॥
mayray maaDha-o jee satsangat milay so tari-aa.
O my Dear Lord of souls, one who joins the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, is saved.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੂਕੇ ਕਾਸਟ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
गुर परसादि परम पदु पाइआ सूके कासट हरिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
gur parsaad param pad paa-i-aa sookay kaasat hari-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
By Guru's Grace, the supreme status is obtained, and the dry wood blossoms forth again in lush greenery. ||1||Pause||

ਜਨਨਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਲੋਕ ਸੁਤ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਕੋਇ ਕਿਸ ਕੀ ਧਰਿਆ
जननि पिता लोक सुत बनिता कोइ न किस की धरिआ ॥
janan pitaa lok sut banitaa ko-ay na kis kee Dhari-aa.
Mothers, fathers, friends, children and spouses-no one is the support of anyone else.

ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਸੰਬਾਹੇ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਨ ਭਉ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੨॥
सिरि सिरि रिजकु स्मबाहे ठाकुरु काहे मन भउ करिआ ॥२॥
sir sir rijak sambaahay thaakur kaahay man bha-o kari-aa. ||2||
For each and every person, our Lord and Master provides sustenance. Why are you so afraid, O mind? ||2||

ਊਡੇ ਊਡਿ ਆਵੈ ਸੈ ਕੋਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਪਾਛੈ ਬਚਰੇ ਛਰਿਆ
ऊडे ऊडि आवै सै कोसा तिसु पाछै बचरे छरिआ ॥
ooday ood aavai sai kosaa tis paachhai bachray chhari-aa.
The flamingoes fly hundreds of miles, leaving their young ones behind.

ਤਿਨ ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਚੁਗਾਵੈ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੩॥
तिन कवणु खलावै कवणु चुगावै मन महि सिमरनु करिआ ॥३॥
tin kavan khalaavai kavan chugaavai man meh simran kari-aa. ||3||
Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3||

ਸਭਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਰ ਤਲ ਧਰਿਆ
सभि निधान दस असट सिधान ठाकुर कर तल धरिआ ॥
sabh niDhaan das asat sidhaan thaakur kar tal Dhari-aa.
All the nine treasures, and the eighteen supernatural powers are held by our Lord and Master in the Palm of His Hand.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਸਦ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਪਾਰਾਵਰਿਆ ॥੪॥੫॥
जन नानक बलि बलि सद बलि जाईऐ तेरा अंतु न पारावरिआ ॥४॥५॥
jan naanak bal bal sad bal jaa-ee-ai tayraa ant na paraavari-aa. ||4||5||
Servant Nanak is devoted, dedicated, forever a sacrifice to You, Lord. Your Expanse has no limit, no boundary. ||4||5||
Ang 10

and all is Akal.And no need to have faith inworldy things but Akal.



Quote:
“so scholar like you is great and wants world to move as you want.”
I want world to focus on Guru Granth Sahib Ji and discard anything which defames Guru Ji or questions the social structure of society. If Dasam Granth is read by everyone, say goodbye to all relationships in the world.
what about verse given by das in last para.If Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells Qazi being crrupt then that does not means that Sikhs should be crruopt.


Quote:
“Seeing Guru as per Gurbani is not the physical body but Guru over there is Akal.so seeing Guru is realsinsation of Truth.do you think that you show some bad person Guru Granth sahib and he will losse lust etc.?
Did not Pathan who stabbed Guru also seen physical form of Guru.Fact is that Guru is beyoond any form and Ten Master made us more towards that.
But you still go after phyiscal form and want to decide who is Sikh or who is not.Very well.”
Without understanding, nothing is gained. Understanding is the key. Did the woman understand? No she didn’t. She didn’t accept she was wrong so then there is issue (chariter 16). I am talking about the personality of the Guru and not the physical attributes. My mistake if I wasn’t clear. Pathan was just a gdaar like tria chariter promoters and had no gyan or dhyan.
Prove that Triya Chairtar promoters are traiters.What about Bhasauris and Nirankairs,they opposed Dasham Granth and are proven faithfull!Irony,they have been the biggest traiters.

in stroy of 21,22 and 23 Lady understond while in 16 she did not.

But are Guru Ji in 16th stroy?

Anyway a person,who takes emplyemnt and does not get reforemd due to Akal's wrath,then for some time meeting,it is onto Gur ,to let Sikh or non Sikh understand.that Guru is Akal.
Quote:
Without gyan and dhyan, the person is lost. Pathan was brainwashed by mullas just like Dasam Granth promoters brainwash their students.


Pathans went off due to greed.

prove that how are Dasham Granth student are like Mullahs and people like you are not like Wahabis?

If person says that I do Gyan and Dhyn or some doe that,then he/she has aalready lost.
Quote:
However, in Sikhi, both physical form and internal form must be inline with Gurbani. Guru has power to change the mind of people if wanted. E.g. Said Khan. Everyone has a weakness except Guru Ji. There are words which change even the worst of the worst. E.g. Guru Nanak Dev Ji changing Sajjan Thug, Kauda Bheel, etc.; Guru Aangad Dev Ji changing Hmaayu and others. Guru Gobind Singh Ji changing Said Khan, Dulla and then finally changing Aurangzeb. However, this woman talked back to Guru and had no honor. .


If Guru want Guru can change.As Guru did not change many as das wrte about Pathans.
which women are you taling about and are we sure that 16 charecer is of Guru only?

And Pathans attacked Guru.
Quote:
More flaws in these chariters will be exposed when translations are done.


Thanks as it will help das to expose,the wrong tranlation which is done with bias in mind.
Quote:
They will be done so Sikhs are no longer fooled by RSS propaganda


The way some so called Chiristians talk too much about Satan then Yehova,more then Akal you think of RSS.

OK das puts link for you and counter the propoganda,if you can.

We have been doing such things agaonst them and had you not been posting falsehood,das would have been there by now.


HINDUSIKH.myfastforum.org :: Index

yuo find more happyness to fight own brothers.Let us see how you fight them.go there with your this name and teach them the lesson.And answer teh doubt they raised about Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Quote:
Guru Ji says
“Saabat Soorat Dastaar Siraaa” so physical saroop is also important.

Das is aware that your knwledge is very good.Let us see what all this verse is all about.
ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ
काइआ किरदार अउरत यकीना ॥
kaa-i-aa kirdaar a-urat yakeenaa.
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ
रंग तमासे माणि हकीना ॥
rang tamaasay maan hakeenaa.
Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
नापाक पाकु करि हदूरि हदीसा साबत सूरति दसतार सिरा ॥१२॥
naapaak paak kar hadoor hadeesaa saabat soorat dastaar siraa. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

Ang 1084

Here a Muslim is told that unbroken concentrations should be his turban.Is this supports Turban?By the way is not your concentration broken with doubts?

As you have said,due to Guru Granth Sahib Purism like you das is asked questions about uncut hairs vide this verse.



Ang 1365


ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ
कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥
kabeer pareet ik si-o kee-ay aan dubiDhaa jaa-ay.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥
bhaavai laaNbay kays kar bhaavai gharar mudaa-ay. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

It is futher strange that a person who oppse Amdinstrative concept of Peeri and Sipahi concpet of offenses in Chartro Pakhayan talks about physical things.


Quote:
“1.Baba Srichand Ji as per you were not OK(das respects him).
2.Datu Ji were son of One Guru and kicked the succeeding Guru.
3.Baba Mohan also did not cooprate with Foruth Guru.
4.Then what about Prithwi chand?Did not Chandu also see the Guru and did not Jallad se him?
5.As we move further Bidhichand,did he not see the Guru?
6.By the way if we go by your logic just presetnig any bad man in front of Guru Granth Sahib JI,all will be reformed.
7.Then near Decca there were tow villages Guru told one to get uprooted as they were good people and they will spread good things and ,to bad guys Guru told to reamin settled.So did not those Bad guys swa Guru.”
Baba Siri Chund was not a Sikh. He started his own mutt. He didn’t stay much with Guru Nanak Dev Ji so he didn’t have the understanding. Datu was inflicted by ego and wanted to be Guru just like those labeled sants and brahmgyanis. They also want to be called Guru thus defame Guru Ji by linking Guru Ji to ******* poetry such as tria chariters. However, they know that if they directly claim to be Guru, they will be kicked out like narakdharis and kookas. Baba Mohan gave pothis to Guru Arjan Dev Ji as per some sakhis but it is not true. Bani was handed over to Guru from Guru. This is not true. These are just Sakhis made up. Prithvi was run by ego and had wanted to be Guru. As for jallad, jallad was just doing as ordered. He didn’t want to make Guru Ji Shaheed. He also killed Chundoo after, if you didn’t know. Chandu was a terrorist and was with jahagir. This is history and doesn’t defame Guru Ji but does praise of Guru Ji as it shows how Guru Ji didn’t fear, didn’t change Bani and didn’t bow to anti-Panthic forces to please them. This is totally different from tria chariters. If someone can’t tell the difference then there are personal issues to take care of. Dheermal was from Guru Khaandaan and wanted to be Guru so this is also a different case.
Over here you yourself have proved what das wanted to say that it is no compulsion onto Guru,to reform all,but only onto whom Akal wants to have mercy.Das knows that you do not like word Akal been used by das often but all power in das is of Akal,and in you too.

Each time you bring Triya Charitars and allagations,without proving them.That shows your frsutration.But still das wishes well to you.
Quote:
He it does Guru Upma again as Guru Sahib recited Adi Granth Sahib from spiritual strength again. This does praise of Guru again.


So you belive in miracles also.At one time you oppse Taksal,who says that they are formed after such incidents.Old books like Sau Sakhi tells that Guru Ki Kashi was made before leaving Anandpur Sahib.

You do not follow what missionary thinks and das also thinks the same.As at the time of Tenth Guru,there was only one copy of Guru Granth Sahib Ji,what Tenth Guru did was only to add,the Ninth Guru bani into that.
Quote:
The bad people and good people story isn’t related in this situation. They didn’t see Guru because they didn’t have the understanding. It doesn’t fault the Guru. What can Guru do if the chela is blind?


what is the Guru's fault when person in question is not at all a Sikh ?

Even when Chela or non Cheal is blind Guru,if want can reform that.
Quote:
Gurbani says this. However, the chariter situation is different. It is defaming Guru Ji by saying Guru Ji got fooled by a woman full of lust. I don’t know all these points are related? It is a totally different situation. If tria chariter followers want to question Guru by saying Guru wasn’t all powerful, then that is their issue. It is unbelievable on how low the people are willing to do to promote tria chariters but if we think about it, it isn’t hard to understand


Here in 16th Chaecter there is no Guru.

and in 21st,22nd and 23rd,we have Lady getting reformed by a lord.

As Guru is all powerfull so Guru is sovernge,Guru can act as Guru please and is not bounded by ideolgy and that also is based upon wrong interpetaions.
.
Quote:
Thos who can link garbage written by shyam, raam, kal and soom to Guru Ji, they won’t have trouble attacking Guru Ji in other situations either. May Akaal give them some wisdom and understanding and show them the light of truth.


a peron who does misinterpetaion of Gurbani,is attacking Guru.

Garbage etc. words does not undermines the the fact that you have to prove this as garbage.Ram,Syam are all names of Akal.

coming to your prayer.Do not take it wrong but sometimes das feels that you act like those very people yuo oppose.

Last edited by vijaydeep Singh; 24-Jan-2007 at 13:13 PM. Reason: adding
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 13:06 PM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 30th, 2004
Location: world
Posts: 1,749
vijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished roadvijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 85 Times in 65 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

Gurfateh

Quote:
“There is pricess in Bharatpur and MP of BJP called Krishendra Kaur.Kaur is word related to work and non Sikhs also use that.Term Koer and not Kaur is writtan for Anup Koer.But for you Tainka and Tatta are one and the same.”
What is pricess? I can’t find that word in dictionary. Did the writer mean prices? Doesn’t make sense. Tainka is t and tuttaa is q. Someone who doesn’t know how to properly read Punjabi or understand Punjabi (self admitted) is teaching me how to read Punjabi. Now biharis are going to teach Punjabis how to read Punjabi. What is the world coming to? I didn’t say there aren’t other kaurs. Where did I say other people can’t be kaurs? However, how do you know that the person isn’t trying to defame the Sikh Kaurs?


Term is princess.Thats Ok

Tutta is differant from Tatta it is U and A thing.

Das can understand Lehanda Punjabi as his maternal sides si of Punjabis.Doabi type thing is diffcult.

Das writes a dhola for you.

Balura Katura Sheen Akhaye
Sardul Dehendya Sahika Jaye.

Jus tot let you know that das knows some dialect of Lehnda punjabi.First Master had Bani in this dialect unto him.


Bihari ,Punjabi,Jaat/Teli or Jatt does not matter for a Baptised Sikh as we are told that our Birth place in Anadpur Sahib.

In India,Punjabi is more an abuse refering to Lalas,who are blood suckers and Sirdar JI is title for Sikhs and it is with respect.

Das will touch Kaur issue in next para.

Quote:
Are you awawe that there is place near Vaishnu Devi called Adi Kuwari and in south as Kanya Kumari.Kumari means doughter.”
What is awawe? I have never seen that word in dictionary either. Kuare kuAir does mean kumari also but in Punjab people don’t have names like that. Kaur also means princess. So the lady can be a Sikh girl in chariters 21-23 but who knows what poet the poet means. It is not like the poet was a Sikh. Raam, Shyam, Kal or Soom aren’t Sikhs. Do you think I care about your vaishnu devi? She is just mythical like 24 avtar.

In Punjab and further north ,Hindus do have such name.Grand mother of Das had name Kailash Kumari.

Das put refreance for just to tell yuo about Hindu name north of Punjab.

Akal is not only Sikh but Guru also and Ram,Siam are names of the name.All names are of Akal.

Quote:
“No even a single time term came Anup Kaur.Term is noop Ku-ari to be pronounced as Noop Kuwari.”
True that it doesn’t come as Anoop Kaur but it is not Noop Ku-ari either. It is Noop Kuar. It is very important to learn to pronounce Gumukhi. Learning the alphabet isn’t good enough to pronounce Punjabi words.
Kuare kuAir does have 2 meanings:
  • A girl under 5 years old
  • A princess. (what is the last name of Sikh women?)
Is the language Punajbi over there?Is that not Braj?

do you know that hindu,Hindi etc are not Hindi words so are Punjab and Punjabis are Punjabis words,Can you tell me how?

Let us see your language skills.

Dictionary is of Punjabi,the way it may not have terms of Sanskrit and farsi of Gurbani,so does it will not have meaning of Braj.

Das Gives you Gurmukhi scripts for Both Kaur and ku-ari and let see which is meant by Hindu and which is meant by a Sikh.


for you this can be same as you want this

ਕੌਰ and ਕੁਅਰਿ but are you sure that this ku-ari is not used for other Hindus in same text only?Ku ar is used and Ku ari is also used.Read the Chairters which Bhai Sumra has pointed.Yuo will find some gudance over there.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
“But if a prostitute also becomes Amritdhari we have no problem.
Did not term prostitue come in Guru Granth Sahib?
Have look.Guru ranth Sahib Ji talked of reforming them too.”
I don’t accept prostitutes becoming Amritdhari. This is too much. Prostitute must live a good life as juttee jqI sutte for like 10-15 years before she can be called Amritdhari. Here I mean juttee jqI according to Gurmat and not according to brahmnical philosophy. When did I say Guru Granth Sahib Ji doesn’t talk about reforming bad people? RSS agents should be reformed too. So should be tria chariter followers. However, some pass the line and are too far to be reformed. Where did I say that the term prostitute doesn’t come in Guru Granth Sahib Ji? People should respect Guru Granth Sahib Ji and shouldn’t say “Guru ranth Sahib Ji”. Thirty points aren’t needed to prove a point. For me, one Gurbani tukh is enough. Proves that there is no need for tria chariters and there is no way it could have been written by Guru Ji, especially when the poets clearly identify themselves. I will post quotes later. Remind me if I don’t as I have a fairly busy schedule.

Das is sorry,it should be Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Das understands that you do not want practising Prostitue to be an Amritdhari.But what about lady who leaves her job after baptism?

From where do you find 15 years or so probations.

And some people can not be refrom as you say was the idelogy of Brahmin Surdas,And Guru Ji edited the verse,in which he said that as blot sort of a thing is irremovblae so that people can not be reformed.

ਛਾਡਿ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਮੁਖਨ ਕੋ ਸੰਗੁ
छाडि मन हरि बिमुखन को संगु ॥
chhaad man har bimukhan ko sang.
O mind, do not even associate with those who have turned their backs on the Lord.

ਸਾਰੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ਸੂਰਦਾਸ
सारंग महला ५ सूरदास ॥
saarang mehlaa 5 soordaas.
Saarang, Fifth Mehl, Sur Daas:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਸੰਗ ਬਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਲੋਕ
हरि के संग बसे हरि लोक ॥
har kay sang basay har lok.
The people of the Lord dwell with the Lord.

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਅਰਪਿ ਸਰਬਸੁ ਸਭੁ ਅਰਪਿਓ ਅਨਦ ਸਹਜ ਧੁਨਿ ਝੋਕ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
तनु मनु अरपि सरबसु सभु अरपिओ अनद सहज धुनि झोक ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
tan man arap sarbas sabh arpi-o anad sahj Dhun jhok. ||1|| rahaa-o.
They dedicate their minds and bodies to Him; they dedicate everything to Him. They are intoxicated with the celestial melody of intuitive ecstasy. ||1||Pause||

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪੇਖਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰਬਿਖਈ ਪਾਏ ਹੈ ਸਗਲੇ ਥੋਕ
दरसनु पेखि भए निरबिखई पाए है सगले थोक ॥
darsan paykh bha-ay nirbikha-ee paa-ay hai saglay thok.
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan, they are cleansed of corruption. They obtain absolutely everything.

ਆਨ ਬਸਤੁ ਸਿਉ ਕਾਜੁ ਕਛੂਐ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਬਦਨ ਅਲੋਕ ॥੧॥
आन बसतु सिउ काजु न कछूऐ सुंदर बदन अलोक ॥१॥
aan basat si-o kaaj na kachhoo-ai sundar badan alok. ||1||
They have nothing to do with anything else; they gaze on the beauteous Face of God. ||1||

ਸਿਆਮ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਤਜਿ ਆਨ ਜੁ ਚਾਹਤ ਜਿਉ ਕੁਸਟੀ ਤਨਿ ਜੋਕ
सिआम सुंदर तजि आन जु चाहत जिउ कुसटी तनि जोक ॥
si-aam sundar taj aan jo chaahat ji-o kustee tan jok.
But one who forsakes the elegantly beautiful Lord, and harbors desire for anything else, is like a leech on the body of a leper.

ਸੂਰਦਾਸ ਮਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਹਥਿ ਲੀਨੋ ਦੀਨੋ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਲੋਕ ॥੨॥੧॥੮॥
सूरदास मनु प्रभि हथि लीनो दीनो इहु परलोक ॥२॥१॥८॥
soordaas man parabh hath leeno deeno ih parlok. ||2||1||8||
Says Sur Daas, God has taken my mind in His Hands. He has blessed me with the world beyond. ||2||1||8||
Ang 1253

first line only is by Surdas Ji or Onto him and then next line is not allowed and Verse by Fifth Master comes.

Anyone can be reformed by Akal,examples of Ajamil and Ganika are given only to show might of Akal,capable to do anything.

Quote:
“Another non snese thing.
Listen son
You are helping your hindu family.Hindus can have name Anup Kumari(this not even a single time comes in any Charitar).
Why das says that you help hindus.Since times before Muslims came Hindus have tradtions of prostitues.They were refered as Ganika,Veshya etc.And such names are used in Guru Granth Sahib.There is mention of one Urdu name called ***** also but in Punjabi that is meant by widow.
Other names are Tawaif and kidli.Das could not found a single in that character you are after ie 21 to 23.And lastly since the time before Muslims came to this date it is as per regious santity that Hindus have devdasis ie Prostitutes in temples.And they were mostly Muslim?”
What is non snese? Did the writer mean non sneeze? What does sneezing have to do with tria chariters? Is it abshagun? Gurmat doesn’t believe in sagans or absagans. I help everyone who asks for help. I think good for all in the world. World is in turmoil and will stay this way until Akaal does blessing. Of course hindus have prostitutes. That is why those types of people wrote tria chariters so they can pull the Sikhs to the same boat but it will not happen. Sikhs are waking up and will take charge when Akaal orders. Your knowledge on prostitutes doesn’t help promote kaam shaster as Guru written. It is still the work of soom, raam, shyam and kal. I not talking about prostitutes in mandirs. Mandirs have a tradition of having devdaasis. Mandirs in still have them. A lot of other ones were Muslim.
Read is non Sense.

Ganika is prostitue for King as per Hinduism.As per you Temples prostitue should be holy that we should not call her prostitue?

Ram,Syam all are name of Akal.Read name in a verse in prvious Para.

hindus doing this and Sikhs doing that is nothing more then useless jingoism.

What Sikhs have to do Sikhs are doing and Hindus have no say in front of them.



Quote:
“And this lady is just at strart being mentioned as wife of wealthy?Are you blind?”
This is another direct attack to disrespect me. Where did I noup kuar was poor? Quote it. Why are two chariters being mixed up? Chariters 21-23 and 16 are different. They should not be fixed. If the difference between chariters can’t be hold by some people, how can they tell the difference between Gurbani and stories of corruption? Gurmat is about Guru and Akaal. Gurbanis connects the person to Akaal and brings peace of mind while tria chariters make all relationships in the world questionable. E.g. No one is willing to accept such garbage as tria chariters as Gurbani unless the person is anti-Panthic or uneducated.
Was there not a question that prostitues were Muslims then why name Kaur comes for them.There is no sikh lady nor term Kaur is there.

Das is sorry that he hurt your ego.forgive this foolish filthy lower caste Bihairi.yuo are great and those who do not follow you are fools and mad.Happy.

coming to realtionship issue.They are been told about non Sikhs and exposing the hypocry in them vide Charitropakhyan.

Uneducated things,thats what das wanted to let you know that what you call undeucated,They are the and were the real farmers(jatt) Grazier(Gujars)Sweepers(Churha) whose langauge is used to oppse thieir oppressers.

sometime Gurbani reading also does not bring peace but arise to do war.Jo Lahre Deen Ke Haith.BUt wil of god for peace bringing is needed.

To das Triya Charitar brings epace mre with 266 and 405.Latter one has Chaupyee Sahib das read daily in evening.

See about realtionships.

ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
देवगंधारी महला ९ ॥
dayvganDhaaree mehlaa 9.
Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Ninth Mehl:

ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਜੀਵਤ ਕੋ ਬਿਵਹਾਰ
सभ किछु जीवत को बिवहार ॥
sabh kichh jeevat ko bivhaar.
All things are mere diversions of life:

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਭਾਈ ਸੁਤ ਬੰਧਪ ਅਰੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਕੀ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
मात पिता भाई सुत बंधप अरु फुनि ग्रिह की नारि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
maat pitaa bhaa-ee sut banDhap ar fun garih kee naar. ||1|| rahaa-o.
mother, father, siblings, children, relatives and the wife of your home. ||1||Pause||

ਤਨ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹੋਤ ਜਬ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਟੇਰਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤਿ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ
तन ते प्रान होत जब निआरे टेरत प्रेति पुकारि ॥
tan tay paraan hot jab ni-aaray tayrat parayt pukaar.
When the soul is separated from the body, then they will cry out, calling you a ghost.

ਆਧ ਘਰੀ ਕੋਊ ਨਹਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਘਰ ਤੇ ਦੇਤ ਨਿਕਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
आध घरी कोऊ नहि राखै घर ते देत निकारि ॥१॥
aaDh gharee ko-oo neh raakhai ghar tay dayt nikaar. ||1||
No one will let you stay, for even half an hour; they drive you out of the house. ||1||

ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਜਿਉ ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਯਹ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ
म्रिग त्रिसना जिउ जग रचना यह देखहु रिदै बिचारि ॥
marig tarisnaa ji-o jag rachnaa yeh daykhhu ridai bichaar.
The created world is like an illusion, a mirage - see this, and reflect upon it in your mind.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਤ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਹੋਤ ਉਧਾਰ ॥੨॥੨॥
कहु नानक भजु राम नाम नित जा ते होत उधार ॥२॥२॥
kaho naanak bhaj raam naam nit jaa tay hot uDhaar. ||2||2||
Says Nanak, vibrate forever the Name of the Lord, which shall deliver you. ||2||2||

Ang 536
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
रागु गूजरी महला ५ ॥
raag goojree mehlaa 5.
Raag Goojaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਾਹੇ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਉਦਮੁ ਜਾ ਆਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਪਰਿਆ
काहे रे मन चितवहि उदमु जा आहरि हरि जीउ परिआ ॥
kaahay ray man chitvahi udam jaa aahar har jee-o pari-aa.
Why, O mind, do you plot and plan, when the Dear Lord Himself provides for your care?

ਸੈਲ ਪਥਰ ਮਹਿ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਏ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰਿ ਧਰਿਆ ॥੧॥
सैल पथर महि जंत उपाए ता का रिजकु आगै करि धरिआ ॥१॥
sail pathar meh jant upaa-ay taa kaa rijak aagai kar Dhari-aa. ||1||
From rocks and stones He created living beings; He places their nourishment before them. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਜੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੁ ਤਰਿਆ
मेरे माधउ जी सतसंगति मिले सु तरिआ ॥
mayray maaDha-o jee satsangat milay so tari-aa.
O my Dear Lord of souls, one who joins the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, is saved.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੂਕੇ ਕਾਸਟ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
गुर परसादि परम पदु पाइआ सूके कासट हरिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
gur parsaad param pad paa-i-aa sookay kaasat hari-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
By Guru's Grace, the supreme status is obtained, and the dry wood blossoms forth again in lush greenery. ||1||Pause||

ਜਨਨਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਲੋਕ ਸੁਤ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਕੋਇ ਕਿਸ ਕੀ ਧਰਿਆ
जननि पिता लोक सुत बनिता कोइ न किस की धरिआ ॥
janan pitaa lok sut banitaa ko-ay na kis kee Dhari-aa.
Mothers, fathers, friends, children and spouses-no one is the support of anyone else.

ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਸੰਬਾਹੇ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਨ ਭਉ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੨॥
सिरि सिरि रिजकु स्मबाहे ठाकुरु काहे मन भउ करिआ ॥२॥
sir sir rijak sambaahay thaakur kaahay man bha-o kari-aa. ||2||
For each and every person, our Lord and Master provides sustenance. Why are you so afraid, O mind? ||2||

ਊਡੇ ਊਡਿ ਆਵੈ ਸੈ ਕੋਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਪਾਛੈ ਬਚਰੇ ਛਰਿਆ
ऊडे ऊडि आवै सै कोसा तिसु पाछै बचरे छरिआ ॥
ooday ood aavai sai kosaa tis paachhai bachray chhari-aa.
The flamingoes fly hundreds of miles, leaving their young ones behind.

ਤਿਨ ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਚੁਗਾਵੈ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੩॥
तिन कवणु खलावै कवणु चुगावै मन महि सिमरनु करिआ ॥३॥
tin kavan khalaavai kavan chugaavai man meh simran kari-aa. ||3||
Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3||

ਸਭਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਰ ਤਲ ਧਰਿਆ
सभि निधान दस असट सिधान ठाकुर कर तल धरिआ ॥
sabh niDhaan das asat sidhaan thaakur kar tal Dhari-aa.
All the nine treasures, and the eighteen supernatural powers are held by our Lord and Master in the Palm of His Hand.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਸਦ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਪਾਰਾਵਰਿਆ ॥੪॥੫॥
जन नानक बलि बलि सद बलि जाईऐ तेरा अंतु न पारावरिआ ॥४॥५॥
jan naanak bal bal sad bal jaa-ee-ai tayraa ant na paraavari-aa. ||4||5||
Servant Nanak is devoted, dedicated, forever a sacrifice to You, Lord. Your Expanse has no limit, no boundary. ||4||5||
Ang 10

and all is Akal.And no need to have faith inworldy things but Akal.



Quote:
“so scholar like you is great and wants world to move as you want.”
I want world to focus on Guru Granth Sahib Ji and discard anything which defames Guru Ji or questions the social structure of society. If Dasam Granth is read by everyone, say goodbye to all relationships in the world.
what about verse given by das in last para.If Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells Qazi being crrupt then that does not means that Sikhs should be crruopt.


Quote:
“Seeing Guru as per Gurbani is not the physical body but Guru over there is Akal.so seeing Guru is realsinsation of Truth.do you think that you show some bad person Guru Granth sahib and he will losse lust etc.?
Did not Pathan who stabbed Guru also seen physical form of Guru.Fact is that Guru is beyoond any form and Ten Master made us more towards that.
But you still go after phyiscal form and want to decide who is Sikh or who is not.Very well.”
Without understanding, nothing is gained. Understanding is the key. Did the woman understand? No she didn’t. She didn’t accept she was wrong so then there is issue (chariter 16). I am talking about the personality of the Guru and not the physical attributes. My mistake if I wasn’t clear. Pathan was just a gdaar like tria chariter promoters and had no gyan or dhyan.
Prove that Triya Chairtar promoters are traiters.What about Bhasauris and Nirankairs,they opposed Dasham Granth and are proven faithfull!Irony,they have been the biggest traiters.

in stroy of 21,22 and 23 Lady understond while in 16 she did not.

But are Guru Ji in 16th stroy?

Anyway a person,who takes emplyemnt and does not get reforemd due to Akal's wrath,then for some time meeting,it is onto Gur ,to let Sikh or non Sikh understand.that Guru is Akal.
Quote:
Without gyan and dhyan, the person is lost. Pathan was brainwashed by mullas just like Dasam Granth promoters brainwash their students.


Pathans went off due to greed.

prove that how are Dasham Granth student are like Mullahs and people like you are not like Wahabis?

If person says that I do Gyan and Dhyn or some doe that,then he/she has aalready lost.
Quote:
However, in Sikhi, both physical form and internal form must be inline with Gurbani. Guru has power to change the mind of people if wanted. E.g. Said Khan. Everyone has a weakness except Guru Ji. There are words which change even the worst of the worst. E.g. Guru Nanak Dev Ji changing Sajjan Thug, Kauda Bheel, etc.; Guru Aangad Dev Ji changing Hmaayu and others. Guru Gobind Singh Ji changing Said Khan, Dulla and then finally changing Aurangzeb. However, this woman talked back to Guru and had no honor. .


If Guru want Guru can change.As Guru did not change many as das wrte about Pathans.
which women are you taling about and are we sure that 16 charecer is of Guru only?

And Pathans attacked Guru.
Quote:
More flaws in these chariters will be exposed when translations are done.


Thanks as it will help das to expose,the wrong tranlation which is done with bias in mind.
Quote:
They will be done so Sikhs are no longer fooled by RSS propaganda


The way some so called Chiristians talk too much about Satan then Yehova,more then Akal you think of RSS.

OK das puts link for you and counter the propoganda,if you can.

We have been doing such things agaonst them and had you not been posting falsehood,das would have been there by now.


HINDUSIKH.myfastforum.org :: Index

yuo find more happyness to fight own brothers.Let us see how you fight them.go there with your this name and teach them the lesson.And answer teh doubt they raised about Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Quote:
Guru Ji says
“Saabat Soorat Dastaar Siraaa” so physical saroop is also important.

Das is aware that your knwledge is very good.Let us see what all this verse is all about.
ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ
काइआ किरदार अउरत यकीना ॥
kaa-i-aa kirdaar a-urat yakeenaa.
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ
रंग तमासे माणि हकीना ॥
rang tamaasay maan hakeenaa.
Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
नापाक पाकु करि हदूरि हदीसा साबत सूरति दसतार सिरा ॥१२॥
naapaak paak kar hadoor hadeesaa saabat soorat dastaar siraa. ||12||
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

Ang 1084

Here a Muslim is told that unbroken concentrations should be his turban.Is this supports Turban?By the way is not your concentration broken with doubts?

As you have said,due to Guru Granth Sahib Purism like you das is asked questions about uncut hairs vide this verse.



Ang 1365


ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ
कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥
kabeer pareet ik si-o kee-ay aan dubiDhaa jaa-ay.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥
bhaavai laaNbay kays kar bhaavai gharar mudaa-ay. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

It is futher strange that a person who oppse Amdinstrative concept of Peeri and Sipahi concpet of offenses in Chartro Pakhayan talks about physical things.


Quote:
“1.Baba Srichand Ji as per you were not OK(das respects him).
2.Datu Ji were son of One Guru and kicked the succeeding Guru.
3.Baba Mohan also did not cooprate with Foruth Guru.
4.Then what about Prithwi chand?Did not Chandu also see the Guru and did not Jallad se him?
5.As we move further Bidhichand,did he not see the Guru?
6.By the way if we go by your logic just presetnig any bad man in front of Guru Granth Sahib JI,all will be reformed.
7.Then near Decca there were tow villages Guru told one to get uprooted as they were good people and they will spread good things and ,to bad guys Guru told to reamin settled.So did not those Bad guys swa Guru.”
Baba Siri Chund was not a Sikh. He started his own mutt. He didn’t stay much with Guru Nanak Dev Ji so he didn’t have the understanding. Datu was inflicted by ego and wanted to be Guru just like those labeled sants and brahmgyanis. They also want to be called Guru thus defame Guru Ji by linking Guru Ji to ******* poetry such as tria chariters. However, they know that if they directly claim to be Guru, they will be kicked out like narakdharis and kookas. Baba Mohan gave pothis to Guru Arjan Dev Ji as per some sakhis but it is not true. Bani was handed over to Guru from Guru. This is not true. These are just Sakhis made up. Prithvi was run by ego and had wanted to be Guru. As for jallad, jallad was just doing as ordered. He didn’t want to make Guru Ji Shaheed. He also killed Chundoo after, if you didn’t know. Chandu was a terrorist and was with jahagir. This is history and doesn’t defame Guru Ji but does praise of Guru Ji as it shows how Guru Ji didn’t fear, didn’t change Bani and didn’t bow to anti-Panthic forces to please them. This is totally different from tria chariters. If someone can’t tell the difference then there are personal issues to take care of. Dheermal was from Guru Khaandaan and wanted to be Guru so this is also a different case.
Over here you yourself have proved what das wanted to say that it is no compulsion onto Guru,to reform all,but only onto whom Akal wants to have mercy.Das knows that you do not like word Akal been used by das often but all power in das is of Akal,and in you too.

Each time you bring Triya Charitars and allagations,without proving them.That shows your frsutration.But still das wishes well to you.
Quote:
He it does Guru Upma again as Guru Sahib recited Adi Granth Sahib from spiritual strength again. This does praise of Guru again.


So you belive in miracles also.At one time you oppse Taksal,who says that they are formed after such incidents.Old books like Sau Sakhi tells that Guru Ki Kashi was made before leaving Anandpur Sahib.

You do not follow what missionary thinks and das also thinks the same.As at the time of Tenth Guru,there was only one copy of Guru Granth Sahib Ji,what Tenth Guru did was only to add,the Ninth Guru bani into that.
Quote:
The bad people and good people story isn’t related in this situation. They didn’t see Guru because they didn’t have the understanding. It doesn’t fault the Guru. What can Guru do if the chela is blind?


what is the Guru's fault when person in question is not at all a Sikh ?

Even when Chela or non Cheal is blind Guru,if want can reform that.
Quote:
Gurbani says this. However, the chariter situation is different. It is defaming Guru Ji by saying Guru Ji got fooled by a woman full of lust. I don’t know all these points are related? It is a totally different situation. If tria chariter followers want to question Guru by saying Guru wasn’t all powerful, then that is their issue. It is unbelievable on how low the people are willing to do to promote tria chariters but if we think about it, it isn’t hard to understand


Here in 16th Chaecter there is no Guru.

and in 21st,22nd and 23rd,we have Lady getting reformed by a lord.

As Guru is all powerfull so Guru is sovernge,Guru can act as Guru please and is not bounded by ideolgy and that also is based upon wrong interpetaions.
.
Quote:
Thos who can link garbage written by shyam, raam, kal and soom to Guru Ji, they won’t have trouble attacking Guru Ji in other situations either. May Akaal give them some wisdom and understanding and show them the light of truth.


a peron who does misinterpetaion of Gurbani,is attacking Guru.

Garbage etc. words does not undermines the the fact that you have to prove this as garbage.Ram,Syam are all names of Akal.

coming to your prayer.Do not take it wrong but sometimes das feels that you act like those very people yuo oppose.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 13:20 PM
sahilmakkar1983's Avatar sahilmakkar1983 sahilmakkar1983 is offline
 
Enrolled: Nov 29th, 2006
Posts: 119
sahilmakkar1983 is an unknown quantity at this point
   
Adherent: Humanism
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

GuruFateh,

Ya its true, that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is singing the praises of SATNAM
but it also says that SATNAM is not SATNAM but SATNAM is unspoken(AJAPA) word
ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਘਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਇ ਦੇਇ ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772
घर महि घरु देखाइ देइ सो सतिगुरु पुरखु सुजाणु ॥
ghar meh ghar daykhaa-ay day-ay so satgur purakh sujaan.
The True Guru is the All-knowing Primal Being; He shows us our true home within the home of the self.

ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਧੁਨਿਕਾਰ ਧੁਨਿ ਤਹ ਬਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ
पंच सबद धुनिकार धुनि तह बाजै सबदु नीसाणु ॥
panch sabad Dhunikaar Dhun tah baajai sabad neesaan.
The Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, resonate and resound within; the insignia of the Shabad is revealed there, vibrating gloriously.

ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਤਹ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਹੈਰਾਨੁ
दीप लोअ पाताल तह खंड मंडल हैरानु ॥
deep lo-a paataal tah khand mandal hairaan.
Worlds and realms, nether regions, solar systems and galaxies are wondrously revealed.

ਤਾਰ ਘੋਰ ਬਾਜਿੰਤ੍ਰ ਤਹ ਸਾਚਿ ਤਖਤਿ ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ
तार घोर बाजिंत्र तह साचि तखति सुलतानु ॥
taar ghor baajintar tah saach takhat sultaan.
The strings and the harps vibrate and resound; the true throne of the Lord is there.

ਸੁਖਮਨ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਰਾਗੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ
सुखमन कै घरि रागु सुनि सुंनि मंडलि लिव लाइ ॥
sukhman kai ghar raag sun sunn mandal liv laa-ay.
Listen to the music of the home of the heart - Sukhmani, peace of mind. Lovingly tune in to His state of celestial ecstasy.

ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ
अकथ कथा बीचारीऐ मनसा मनहि समाइ ॥
akath kathaa beechaaree-ai mansaa maneh samaa-ay.
Contemplate the Unspoken Speech, and the desires of the mind are dissolved.

ਉਲਟਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਭਰਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਕਤਹੁ ਜਾਇ
उलटि कमलु अम्रिति भरिआ इहु मनु कतहु न जाइ ॥
ulat kamal amrit bhari-aa ih man katahu na jaa-ay.
The heart-lotus is turned upside-down, and is filled with Ambrosial Nectar. This mind does not go out; it does not get distracted.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14772

ਅਜਪਾ ਜਾਪੁ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ
अजपा जापु न वीसरै आदि जुगादि समाइ ॥
ajpaa jaap na veesrai aad jugaad samaa-ay.
It does not forget the Chant which is chanted without chanting; it is immersed in the Primal Lord God of the ages.

ਸਭਿ ਸਖੀਆ ਪੰਚੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ
सभि सखीआ पंचे मिले गुरमुखि निज घरि वासु ॥
sabh sakhee-aa panchay milay gurmukh nij ghar vaas.
All the sister-companions are blessed with the five virtues. The Gurmukhs dwell in the home of the self deep within.

ਸਬਦੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਇਹੁ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
सबदु खोजि इहु घरु लहै नानकु ता का दासु ॥१॥
sabad khoj ih ghar lahai naanak taa kaa daas. ||1||
Nanak is the slave of that one who seeks the Shabad and finds this home within. ||1||

Please read the meaning of the lines
clearly stating that the master , guru is that who can show u the GOD within u
and ORANGE highlighted in b/w is clearly stating that NAAM is AJAPA
SATNAM is AJAPA

SVJKK SVJKF
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 14:25 PM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 30th, 2004
Location: world
Posts: 1,749
vijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished roadvijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 85 Times in 65 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

Gurfateh

Quote:
“It is not Jesus like thing where body is worshipped.The Guru when is seen is seen in all and is not in one body but in all bodies.”
Where is the quote where I said to worship the body? Am I worshipping the body or are those who say chariters are bani just because it says Paatshai 10 at the start. How hard is it to write Paatshahi 10 at the start of a book? Poets raam, shyam, kal and soom identify themselves and say we are the ones writing these then how does it come to be Guru Gobind Singh Ji?


Patshahi 10 means unto that lord.Why should poets let themselves be recoganuised as Hindus had it be a ploy of Hindus to absorb Sikhi?

You said as per qoute seeing that.Seeing Akal is all reforms and that also by mercy of Akal.
body of Guru is Panth Khalsa.

Raam,Shyam and Kaal are name of of Akal.give refreance to Charitar where Soom Sufi is writtan?


Quote:
“First rectify the figure.It is one by 125000 and you talk of 100000 so you are 25000 less.
so yuo wanted Guru to show miracle.Had he jhas to show,he would have done it in while staying at Chamkaur Garhi.”

That number is wrong too. 20,000 per month = 120,000 for 6 months. Guru Sahib doesn’t show miracles as they aren’t Gurmat but Guru still is the knower of all. Why would Guru go to place where his integrity would be attacked? Doesn’t make sense and as for miracle, making 40 fight against countless is a miracle. Escaping alive from the fortress while the attackers were challenged to catch Guru Ji was a miracle which people and cult followers fail to realize.


what you call a miracle is stratigic planing you will never be able to understand.yuo said Sikh eqaul to 100000,das is aware 125000.And you talk about end of 23rd Charecter.Das thinks it is due to lack of intellect and not intentional.

why should Guru leave Anandpur Sahib,while he knew that oughts of cow and Holy Kuran be not takne care off?to expose the hypocracy in the faiths of those guys.

yuo need to know how did flags and cloaths were hung on the bushes in Muktsar and how toreches were put and Peer e Hind mi Ravad was sadi to confuse.

Then there were tow gujjers,who wanted to tell police about Guru in Machiwara and Guru had to kill them.

Lord going to noop Ku ari is just stroy been told to us,how we actult act in real situaltions then longing for miracles.


Quote:
“Once Gurus camp was looted,And Sikhs asked him why this Bhana Happned?
Guru said 'that there is a power bigger then him and that controls all'.That defeat was way to let people know that not to worship Guru but Akal.”

When did I say worship Guru? This thread isn’t about Sakhis. Akaal is above all and no one needs to tell me that.


So RSS or ****** Hindutva things or Sants you curse have no control over Akal.Surrender self to Akal,saying,your likings are felt sweet(unto Fifth Master).


Quote:
“But you may make an idol of Guru or treat Guru Granth Sahib Ji as idol whithout knowing Akal.Guru did say in Vachitar Natak that people trying to call him Primal god will go to hell.”
Those who just read Guru Granth Sahib Ji without understanding are doing idol worship. Bachitter natak isn’t Gurbani either. Document on this will come later. Bachitter natak is also full of flaws. E.g. No mention of Peer Buddu Shah but mention of Sango Shah, Peer Buddu Shah wasn’t martyred in the battle. He was given a lot of respect by Guru Ji and Guru Ji asked what he wished for and he was given what he wished for.


Das told you and will repeat that Peer Ji were called as complained about 400 out 500 Pathans he recomended to serve Guru ditched.So for that reason he is not mentioned.why Sahzadas coming and not harming Guru and Harming deseters is writtan?

Anyway wihtout self underrstanding Guru Granth Sahib and going after wrong interpetaion of them is idol worshpping also.


Quote:
“But in story it is written that there in that place Lord was alone(he went there to meet Magan but a lady was there,Who said that if Lord does not commit Adultary,she will kill him or will shout.In both case there was to be charctor assination.In former case Lord did not want to kill a lonely lady,In second case ,it happened that she shouted and lord grabed her brother and befooled her followers who thought him to be a Thief.And her brother went to jail and Lord reached back safe and sound”
How was the lady going to kill Guru?


Chrecter assination and if needed it could be just a threat.And more for one,who does not attack lady and nif he does so then charecter is in trouble.

Quote:
Guru Ji could have taken away whatever she wanted to use to kill him. Guru Ji didn’t have to kill her. Did she have some automatic gun which she was going to use to kill Guru?


The person over there is lord.Do you know that if Lady was touched physiocaly to grab back her weapons and her followers around,she could have rather accused the lord of trying to pare her.
Quote:
Why was Guru fooling people? It says raja grabbed the beard of her brother, why is that part being skipped? It also says the turban was grabbed off from the brother’s head. Why was this poor guy put in trouble and shamed? Is this what the Guru did to others?


Her borther was one of the attacker and he was rather taken care off.

and what about Gurus taking guise of Peer of Uchch or say Saying Peer of India going after putting of the toruches?Was Guru fooling people or usinf strtegy?what about loads full of filth sent in carts as wealth and fooling Rajputs and Mughals?
Quote:
So Guru acted as a thug?


Strategists.

And you are Fauj or Army by name,you do not understand.
Quote:
What happened to the teachings that never grab a person’s turban even if the person is enemy. Even the Sikhs in old times never attacked a turban or beard of a pathan or mughal who was fighting them.


Where is this writtan?give proof.

do you know that Charhat Singh(Grand father of Ranjit Singh) and Sukha Singh Meerankotiye took the helmet of Pathans plus thier other things and used them against Pathans only?(Panth Prakash by Rattan Singh Bhangu).

In Shaster Vidiya we are told to attack face and hit the head.Yuo do not know the Davs(style also).
Quote:
Guru forgot his own teaching?

Waht teaching?
give them from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Quote:
Where did the woman suddenly get sewaks with weapons?


she had rich person,so,she had her bodies gurads or followers.
Quote:
Was she a leader of a group?

No gruop was at her serivce.
Quote:
Woman had her brother in town but where was her husband?

Not mentioned in the text and question is irreleveant but she had a husband,who was rich.There his role ends.
Quote:
Didn’t the servants know who Guru Gobind Singh Ji was?


As she came from outside,her servents were new.(Read line 5)


Quote:
Even the enemies respected character of Sikhs and had to call Sikhs lions to show respect. In tria chariters, their Guru’s character is put in question in a city established by Guru Tegh Bahadur and nourished by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

It is your biased opinion,which thinks so.
Quote:
How many servants did she have? 3? 5? Were they hard to handle for Guru Ji? There are more flaws they will be talked about later with translations of these chariters.


there can be 10 also.Thing was that,Lord should not have let him be connected to her in any way and let the charecter assination be prevented to let Praching be done flawless.And that is been told by whole truth.And see the 22nd and 23rd.she could not succed.
so so far no flaws.



Quote:
“Wait there man it seems that you are paranoid and *******ed.Term Pani Pamri is written that means rich footwear.Term Panhi comes only when that lady is summoned in the court.And Panhi means blanket.As we have to fight and run both footwears like Chappel and blanket are not handy.As you may never have fought and if you want you can wear them and see how good could you fight ,Lord,when lady shouted, leaft shoe and blanket and them made her brother get cought by her own men.It was only after when Lord refuse to commit Adultary then she wanted to trap lord,then in order to face dangers handly did lord removed hindrances.
did not Guru use to put gold in arrow to kill enemy so that with mony of that arrow enmy fmaily can get funaral done?”

What is that word which has been starred? Can it be post mailed or emailed to me?


Das did not right any derogotry thing as such.Has there been something,das is sorry.Anyway das read your views about das.And das thanks you also for that.

Reason.It proves that you acted same as Guru acted against Hindus or Muslims,who were making fun of Sikhs(Suraj Prakash).

Das knew that you used term Lundee etc. and das lied that.Realy.

Quote:
Khalsa Gujjay, Lundee Buchee like Vijee Bhujjay
Bunjdee Noo Rah Naa Lubbay, Bhuj Bhuj Kundeya Wich Bujjay
Guru Kalgidhar Day Mun Noo Bhaavai
Nihaal Ho Jaavay
Bolayyyyyyyy So Nihaalllllll
Sat Sri Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllll
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-m...nalysis-3.html

What you said was said by your father and father of Das against Anti Sikhs.

Das hopes Lundee over here is very good things and correctly taken from Dasham Granth Sahib as an abuse to Anti Sikh.You have proven Das's theory OK.

some more abuses please and thanks in advance.
Quote:
It is not pani (water), it is pnee (footwear). Paamree is blanket.


did das wrote anything about water?Yuo want some water?Pan means gold or wealth in Sanskrit and Pani means wealthy or rich or expennsive.Pamre means lowest thing from pamar means lower.That is shoe as worn at bottam.

Quote:
There was no running in this chariter. It says it was forgotten. When did Guru start forgetting? Last time I read Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it said that Guru and Kartar don’t make mistakes. When the brother was already labeled as the thief and sent to jail, then what was the need to run?


Fast movement occured before brother was sent to jail.Read the Chracter care full Oh Dear.
Quote:
Who was going to fight? Why were those items taken to woman if they weren’t to be used? Guru made mistake?


shoe were to be worn but delicate and ex*****ive shoes are not good to t\be used in fight.

Quote:
“It is state of seeing Akal in all and not the seeig of Phyiscal body.Do not you think that Baba Maan Singh Of Pehva saw and read Guru Granth Sahib?”
Mann Pehova doesn’t sing Gurbani. He sings kuchee bani and loots people. He doesn’t even follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is same and never reading. He doesn’t even follow the first concept which is kirat kurna. Not only that, his rapes are the result of tria chariters. He read most of the tricks in Dasam Granth. He isn’t the only one. More saad baabas are exposed daily and some went unexposed but Akaal knows all.


He does more Path of Guru Granth Sahib Ji,But by seeing the Guru,things do not happen,will of Guru is needed.


Quote:
“How dare did a prostitute threaten Guru Ji?
Did not Hindu Kings and Moghuls also threatened Guru and they were worse then prostitues.
Did not Sodi of Kartarpur said bad words for Guru.What about Brahmins of Kurukshetras?They also said wrong things to Guru?
Anyone who is to go for wrong time gets non sense mind and say wrong things to Guru like you are doing.”

Hindu rajas and mughals had armies, weapons and cannons. They didn’t threaten Guru Ji face to face. They talked smack in the back just like general from Delhi. These guys don’t even have the guts to come in front of Guru face to face and lay a challenge.


Person dealing with prostitue was not Guru.but lady can defame Guru,as some has deefamed Kala Afghana Sahib.

phorum - message board

Quote:
This is case of Sexual Assult by kala Afgana on defendant Karanjit Bhullar
dated 28th Feburary 1992:
1) Kala Afgana was 68 year old in 1988 where he sexually assualted Mrs Bhullar 35 year old female at Gurudwara Topaz st (canada) where he was a granthi. His wife and Daughter were on gurudwara premesis.
2)kicked out by gurudwara comittee after tape recording of kala Afgan by mrs Bhullar.
3) Court awarded 5000.00 dollar damages to Mrs Bhullar and threw out case of counter suit of defamation of cahracter of kala afgana.
Quote:
She wasn’t a soldier. If it was a soldier, then it is a different situation as fighting skills drive ego to the top. What did a prostitute have to back her up? What fighting skills did she have?


Person with prostitue was not Guru.Even lord is Pakhyan or some stroy been told in other Chapters.Like Ninth Master gave his slelf expirances.Das has talked about them in thread about 21st,22nd and 23rd Charectors.
Quote:
Sodis were again family members of Guru and were descendents of Guru family and did have firepower.


No Sodi like Gulab Rai is said to have fire power.Dheermal had and It was Ninth Master who let him off,after gun shot fired at Guru.
Quote:
Brahmans were high in number but they were shamed and accepted their faults. I like to hear facts


Very nice.

Did Pamma and Gangu accepted thier defeat.At one place you give fear of RSS the front of Brahmnical agency,who is after us before RSS was made.And you say that they are sorry.If they are soory then why are you showing thier evil desig to us?

and another fact you gave,Brahmins were large in number?Presently Thrre upper castesd are abou 14% percent in India.Brahmins are no where majority and never they have been.

yuo come here and see,then just making castle in air.These are facts.

Quote:
. Those who follow and promote tria chariters are in their bad times and don’t realize the truth. They are lost and guided by maya.


Is Maya an indepeandat entity like Satan?And does anything else other then akal exists.Das told you before,Like evenlgists,Maya is takne as Satan by you.

Das is in good time and feeling happy to answer your flase propganda.
Quote:
Their personal agendas and motives will only ruin their reputation and tria chariters will never ever be accepted as work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji because it isn’t.


Well as you see that case of Kala Afghan Sahib above.He is true in many things yet his reputation is being ruined.Slanderers do slander,Dog barks and Elephant move ahead.This is not for you but for those who slander our respected Kala Afghana Sahib.But is at all it is Salnder only.Prove this that this is not the Bani of Tenth Master.If you say that there was no Guruship given to Scripture as Nirkairs say,then Panth will not accept this.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 24-Jan-2007, 15:38 PM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
Enrolled: Jul 30th, 2004
Location: world
Posts: 1,749
vijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished roadvijaydeep Singh is on a distinguished road
   
Adherent: Sikhism
Liked 85 Times in 65 Posts
    Nationality: India
Re: Answering the wrong doubts about Bani onto Tenth Master

  Donate Today!  
Ek Onakar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Quote:
“Lord went to know about Plan and he knew that Magan a man will be there,who came on behest of lady.
Even if we deem it spell,Going of lord was more in line of First Maste goig to
1.Haridwar to expose superstition
2.To Kalijug Panda to remove myth about miracle he was showing.
3.To Jaggananth to expose myth about Arti.
4.to Mecca,to expose that God is not restricted to any direction.
He did not go there to worship.Anyway after reading this text of Charitrano one will belive in going to learn Mantra from anybody.So purpose of Charitar is done.”
This statement of learning plan is more jokes than Mr. Bean. What plan? Why does Guru need to learn plans? Doesn’t Guru know anything? Isn’t Guru sumruth (all powerful?). If it wasn’t to learn mantar, then why was it given importance? When did this happen? What is charitrano? Is it an Italian word? What is purpose of this chariter? Give money to a prostitute? Grab beards of innocent people? Beat up innocent people?
So Guru did not learn Arbic and Farsi with Qazi,who later helped Guru in Uch Da Peer episode.Sikhism tells us to learn and Guru can not learn more.Guru is All powerfull and that is Akal.Physical body eats food.This is personal worshipping.

There is not prositute in 21st,22nd and 23rd and there is no Guru in 16th.Yuo are mixing up.

Quote:

Latter three shows how should Sikh react in unforseen circumstances and former one showed how Hindu coulkd have acted.

“Akal ill reborn you as a Hindu and then you will speak lies as per your faith.In Charitars 21 to 23rd it is not at all written.And do tell otherwise where it is written?”
Did I say that 60 coins is written in chariters 21-23? It is written in chariter 16. RSS and derawalas are hindufied and make a living from lies. The number of lies aren’t even countable.
why did you give 20 over there?

so mistake.

In last post you said Brahmins are defeated and now you talk of RSS.And Dearwalas as thier Agents.

Anyway lies are exposed and it they will be done further.
Quote:
Another lie is made to cover up previous one. Wise people are the ones who accept mistakes and move on. As long there is corruption in the mind, the person can never be true to Guru. If the person can’t be true to Guru, the person can’t be true to Akaal thus the person can’t get liberation.

Jis Hath jor Kar Vekhai Soi Nanak Uttam Neech Na Koi.Truthfull and flase are are done and made by Akal.

Das has shown that you agree that it is in there in your mind.which has come out.Yuo told some lies and then das exposed them and you are now covering them up.
Quote:
also, where did a prostitute get the name Kaur? Was she Amritdhari?


http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...granth-11.html

there is no Kaur but noop ku-ari and in thse 21st,22nd and 23rd Chreacters there is no prostitue but wife of rich is writtan.

who is lieing?


Quote:
“That lady tried to spread disinfo about lord.Lord preempted this by saying that his stuff is lost and any Sikh who retrive it will get no death coming near to him.That may mean teqaching of Weapoanry or Gurmat teaching.It may not mean salvation as you write.”
Guru Sahib gave Gurmat and weapon training to all Sikhs regardless of anything. Weapon training doesn’t protect anyone from death. Gurmat does however. Kaal means time or death. Both of which can’t be God. God is beyond both and is thus Akaal.
so god can not be death to foe.In fact who else is death and birth for all.Who makes you born and who bring dead to you.no Angel but only and one and only Akal.This thing each Sikh should know.


Quote:
“No Sikhs,who got hold of Lady had along side bought the items as proof of her stealing from Lord.Do not tell lies.Lord ordered them to do so.That happened when lord came to know from Sikhs about her having a defomation campaign.”
Where is the lie? What was so special about those shoes and shawl that Guru Ji wanted to end someone’s cycle of birth and death for that shawl and that pair of shoes? When the woman was brought, weren’t the items brought with her? This is what the chariter says. Raja told the followers to find the culprit and it says that the followers couldn’t resist and told who it was. There are two points to note here:
  • If the raja knew, then why didn’t the raja just tell the followers to retrieve it from the place?
  • Since the raja knew, why did the raja ask lie? What was the need to lie here?
Read line 2 of 23rd Chrecter.she started the disinfo campagin after getting angery.and then did lord tell his followers the fact that his things are stolen,Anyway when Guru Sahiban knew that there is no demigod of Death like Yama and they do mention them in Gurbani,do they lie?Das will talk about Brahma later.

with items of Lord lady was psreading lies as you do with this pius text.(Das is aware that one vice of anger will take over you after reading this term).So strategically,it was made to nip the evilinbud.


Quote:
“do yuo know that Guru used to give medicine via Bhai Ghannaya to people who were injuiered even from opponent side.So you can ask how and why for that also?Hard eaerned mony of Sikhs been givne to those who came to kill Sikhs?”
What about Gurus putting gold in arrow so that kins to victum of that arrow get his funral done by that Gold.”
Giving medicine to serve humanity is different from giving money to prostitutes.
in 16th Charecter Prostitue is mentioned.

And King is not Guru.

Quote:
Wasn’t noup kuar rich anyways?


she was wife of Rich
Quote:
Why was money given to her?


Father does bless his doughter with gift.

Yuo say that Guru followed Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

But you missed this verse.

Ang 1381 and 1382
ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬੁਰੇ ਦਾ ਭਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਸਾ ਮਨਿ ਹਢਾਇ
फरीदा बुरे दा भला करि गुसा मनि न हढाइ ॥
fareedaa buray daa bhalaa kar gusaa man na hadhaa-ay.
Fareed, answer evil with goodness; do not fill your mind with anger.
ਦੇਹੀ ਰੋਗੁ ਲਗਈ ਪਲੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇ ॥੭੮॥
देही रोगु न लगई पलै सभु किछु पाइ ॥७८॥
dayhee rog na lag-ee palai sabh kichh paa-ay. ||78||
Your body shall not suffer from any disease, and you shall obtain everything. ||78||



Quote:
A lot of the soldiers who came to fight Guru Ji didn’t fight because they wanted to fight but because it was their duty.

But all were not like that,What about Pathans we have talked about.Then there is an instance of Brars having trouble with pays as er Sau Sakhi and htier leaders sets a good examles of Sikh.
Quote:
Guru Ji attached the gold so the sanskar could be done properly. Sanskars were mostly done by undertakers who had no relations to the army guys.

so as per you no person died got creation by thier relatives.give refreance about this imagination.
Quote:
Mughals left their dead bodies to rot. Undertaker needs to feed family too so Guru Ji gave it as a pay for hard work.


good stroy but from where you took it or just developped.

Could not Guru Ji give them salary based upon work they do?

By the way this means that they got the mony only from enemies killed by Guru and not from other Sikhs or they only did cremations of those guys who were killed by Guru and left other to rot?

By the way how did they recoganise that which person is actualy killed by Guru?

By the way Guru left Anandpur Sahib,Chamkaur Sahib,Muktsar Sahib,where where these undertakers?

In your imagination?

There is no mentioned but your imgination.Das is sorry but over here also there is something racial.There is one caste in Hindus called Dom or Chandal,who are professional of such work.

Yuo have conceptulised such arrangement by Guru.Very nice.And you call das as agenets of RSS,.Irony.

Quote:
These aren’t Singhs mentioned in tria chariters who are shows as stupid and dumb and dysfunctional. This is Babbars Akalis here who use the brain to prevent munmutt from coming into Sikhi.
there is one stroy das saw and that is about 49 th Charecter.Person is Barber(do you know who they are?They cut hairs?for last 9 years Das has not gone to them and das hopes that your family to come does not go to them either.).

Lady over there is Nandmati.As per your defination of Singh,can a Singh have wife without name Kaur?And her husband like parasite use to lie inactice in Gurus place.

Quote:
“When she was indoctrionated( into good faith),as in inscentive,for doing good even to bad, Lord gave him expenditure of six month packed.”
What good faith was she trained into? Prostitute never agreed and raja just ran while she was drugged up.
16th Chrecter does not has Guru.
Quote:
As for Noup Kuar, she agreed not to fool around with Guru but what about the others?


Did you not read that she was Nehuriye(consuled/indoctrined) by lord.Which other are you talking about?
Quote:
Wasn’t Noup Kuar already rich?


she was wife of rich.

Quote:
What was the need to give her money?


This is repeat of question das has answered above

Quote:
All it does is promotes lusty ladies to use Guru Ghur was a place of money collection.

So as per This Langer should be place as medium for lazies having a good life.why do you forget warning being made to her.Her brother beaten.She her self was taken into custody.no one could dare do such things again.See was shown death very near and then pardoned.Read the 23rd Charitar correctly.Das has done its word by word tranlations.

Quote:
“Is there no verse in Guru Granth Sahib,which is in past tense?And should same logic of your be applied over there? Whichy tense is this?”
Tukhs related to Guru Hargobind Sahib are past tense because it is an event of the past. I am not talking about the event but the location and Guru. It says there was a raja.
raja was talked about in 16th Charitar.
Quote:
There was a place called Anadpur (meaning after the destruction). You can’t even type proper English and are from Bihar. What would you know about Punjab and tenses and Gurmukhi?


does Anad mean after destruction?Das rectfy it to Anandpur And Thanks but this shows your great knowledge,Anad is one who is without Adi or start.Un born Akal.

Das is nearer to Punjab then you and Gurmukhi does not means Punjabi.

It is more punjbaism,which trys Gurmat,to be realted to Punjab.

Guru also lived in Bihar for good time anyway.
Quote:
All you do is make person attacks and try to act clever.
Gurbani says “Sahas Sianpaa Lukh Hoahey Taa Ik Naa Chullay Naal”
So leave the cleverness and realize the truth.
Let Akal decide.


Quote:
“If I and me work here then why are they not working in 71st Charitar or say discourse over as in 21st one?
Have you got something or not?
All bani is work of Akal and there is no pattern of first,secod or third being fixed.”
What is the post about here? Is it about the use of third person and first person? This is because the tria chariters are flawed. The writers are inconsistent and don’t even know what they are talking about. You can ask the sodak committee about this. They are the ones who mixed up the writings of the poets.
Das gave them from Darbar Sahib and all Guru Granth Sahib Ji as is from Akal,so reciver Nanak over there was more a second or third person.If you think in that line that Guru Granth Sahib Ji are also not poetray but word of God,then only you will understand,.

Bring Sodak committe to das and das with do Sodh(improvement) to them.It is thier mind messed up while poet is also trying to make non Sikhs been Seen as messed up.A True non sikh will be messed up and call it messed up and it is proven over here.


Quote:
“Why there is third person over here?
Ang 1165 and 1166”
sultaan poochhai sun bay naamaa.
The Sultan said, "Listen, Naam Dayv:
daykh-a-u raam tumHaaray kaamaa. ||1||
let me see the actions of your Lord."||1||
naamaa sultaanay baaDhilaa.
The Sultan arrested Naam Dayv,
daykh-a-u tayraa har beethulaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
and said, "Let me see your Beloved Lord."||1||Pause||
bismil ga-oo dayh jeevaa-ay.
Bring this dead cow back to life.
naatar gardan maara-o thaaN-ay. ||2||
Otherwise, I shall cut off your head here and now."||2||
baadisaah aisee ki-o ho-ay.
Naam Dayv answered, "O king, how can this happen?
bismil kee-aa na jeevai ko-ay. ||3||
No one can bring the dead back to life. ||3||
This is not third person. It is still first person. Gurmukhi understanding is needed to realize that this is not third person.

“Are you made or fool or too much clever who tells so much of lies?
Das gives word to word tranalation of Charectors 21,22,23 and 71 and there term Rai is used and not Raja,where is term Raj used other that and that also for Guru?Tell it?
And Rai means Lord and not the King.So term Rai is used for Akal.Ham Ghar Ram Rai..
Mere Ram Rai.”
This is again more jokes than Mr. Bean. How did Rai become Akaal? Akaal Purakh came into body and was participating in tria chariters? Weird. I request Gurbani tukhs must not be misused to confuse and act smart with those who don’t know much about Gurmat Gyan. Those who do will not be fooled. Even if the word Rai is translated as Gobind Rai, it is still the same situation and has same meaning. Do chariter followers know what Akaal means? Akaal can’t have chariters and can’t be physical. Proper aarth of mool mantar must be learnt.
Das asks you to bring out term King or Raja in Charecters 21st22nd and 23rd,term Rai is there.Yuor making fun does not make the point weak else Brahmins and Muslims have been making fun of Sikhs.Sikhs get more powerfull by someone making wrong to them.

why are Gurbani Tuks been misused?Does not Akal is ultimate Lord.Gobind Rai mean Lord who is source/seed of Sesnse.Go does not means cow and Bind does not means semen.Go is Senses and Bind is seed.
Then you want to explain Arth of Mool Mantra to das.

yuo have Said that there is no Mantras in Sikhs did not you?and Bhai Daya Singh Rahit Nammah is not correct?

As per you Akal does not comes in physical form.

Great are your teachers of Sikhism and Great is Sikh like you.Das actuly is bowing his head to you in front of moniter.

Akal is Ajoni,it is not a negatvie term.Akal is Nirankar it is also not the Negtive terms.Gurmat is psitive while we thiink negative.

Ajoni means not restrcited one Joni or Birth but in all.Niranakar means not in one form but in all forms.

Das first talk logic with you.

If some thing exists or some entity exists,it should have some location also,which is phyiscal.But Akal has all locations.Does all phyiscal locations have one thing and that is Akal.

If Akal has no location at all then Akal does not exists and that is Nastik and non belving things.

so

As per Gurmat have a look.

ਪੰਨਾ 48, ਸਤਰ 12
ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਣੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥੨॥
जलि थलि महीअलि पूरिआ प्रभु आपणी नदरि निहालि ॥२॥
jal thal mahee-al poori-aa parabh aapnee nadar nihaal. ||2||
God is pervading the water, the land and the sky; He sees all with His Glance of Grace. ||2||
ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 64, ਸਤਰ 9
ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੫॥
नानकु वखाणै बेनती जलि थलि महीअलि सोइ ॥५॥
naanak vakhaanai bayntee jal thal mahee-al so-ay. ||5||
Nanak offers this prayer to the One who pervades the water, the land and the air. ||5||
ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 79, ਸਤਰ 11
ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲੇ ॥
जलि थलि पूरि रहिआ बनवारी घटि घटि नदरि निहाले ॥
jal thal poor rahi-aa banvaaree ghat ghat nadar nihaalay.
He is totally pervading the water and the land; He is the Lord of the World-forest. Behold Him in exaltation in each and every heart.
ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 89, ਸਤਰ 15
ਹਰਿ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਹਿ ਕੋਇ ॥
हरि जलि थलि महीअलि भरपूरि दूजा नाहि कोइ ॥
har jal thal mahee-al bharpoor doojaa naahi ko-ay.
The Lord pervades and permeates the water, the land and the sky; there is no other at all.
ਮਃ 4 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 103, ਸਤਰ 9
ਜਲ ਥਲ ਨੀਰਿ ਭਰੇ ਸਰ ਸੁਭਰ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
जल थल नीरि भरे सर सुभर बिरथा कोइ न जाए जीउ ॥२॥
jal thal neer bharay sar subhar birthaa ko-ay na jaa-ay jee-o. ||2||
The sea, the dry land, and the lakes are filled with the Water of the Lord's Name; no place is left empty. ||2||
ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Does a place is left where Akal is not there.Are not Earth,Water and space physical,Akal is in Matter Brahm and Akal is beyond also Prabrahma.

God knows what you were thinking and what you think.But Das is sorry for you.


Maybe Das is not born as Sikh but das sees God in all as God told vide this verse.
ਪੰਨਾ 922, ਸਤਰ 6
ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਏਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ ॥
एहु विसु संसारु तुम देखदे एहु हरि का रूपु है हरि रूपु नदरी आइआ ॥
ayhu vis sansaar tum daykh-day ayhu har kaa roop hai har roop nadree aa-i-aa.
This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen.
ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Before calling that God,yuor God,know about that.


Reply With Quote
   Click Here to Donate Now!
Related Topics...
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S. G. S. Kala Afghana Ji's opposition to whole Bani of Tenth Master. vijaydeep Singh Hard Talk 6 11-Nov-2008 07:58 AM
bani is Nirankar and bani is Naam Sikh80 Gurmat Vichaar 24 10-Jan-2008 12:50 PM
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nect kaur-1 Sikh Gurus 0 16-Oct-2006 03:13 AM


Support Us!
Become a Promoter!
Gurfateh ji, you can become a SPN Promoter by Donating as little as $10 each month. With limited resources & high operational costs, your donations make it possible for us to deliver a quality website and spread the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, to serve & uplift humanity. Every contribution counts. Donate Generously. Gurfateh!
ReplyPost New Topic In This Forum Stay Connected to Sikhism, Click Here to Register Now!

Bookmarks


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14772-answering-wrong-doubts-about-bani-onto.html
Posted By For Type Date
bani | www.hotseekcatalogue.info This thread Refback 16-Feb-2007 08:28 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

» Active Discussions
Can we ever see Sri Guru...
Today 14:52 PM
50 Replies, 1,152 Views
How Many Sikhs Have...
By Abneet
Today 09:27 AM
704 Replies, 65,774 Views
Wikipedia's Article on...
By Ishna
Yesterday 07:37 AM
0 Replies, 82 Views
Want to see a Punjabi...
17-Sep-2014 12:21 PM
1 Replies, 122 Views
Gurdwara in San...
17-Sep-2014 00:27 AM
3 Replies, 169 Views
Sikhs panic after target...
14-Sep-2014 11:59 AM
0 Replies, 115 Views
09-11-2014
13-Sep-2014 23:50 PM
1 Replies, 411 Views
SIKH WOMEN: Bypassed by...
By Ishna
13-Sep-2014 13:58 PM
5 Replies, 554 Views
Plane leaves in 4 hrs...
13-Sep-2014 10:47 AM
7 Replies, 372 Views
Types of Karas
12-Sep-2014 20:02 PM
3 Replies, 200 Views
Vote for Simran Jeet...
12-Sep-2014 00:34 AM
1 Replies, 175 Views
Is it OK to see Guru...
11-Sep-2014 06:49 AM
17 Replies, 622 Views
Fateful journey of a...
10-Sep-2014 09:42 AM
0 Replies, 154 Views
What Are Your Views of...
10-Sep-2014 05:25 AM
8 Replies, 854 Views
The Gender Trap
09-Sep-2014 08:59 AM
6 Replies, 366 Views
» Books You Should Read...
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:21 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 Copyright © 2004-2015, All Rights Reserved. Sikh Philosophy Network


Page generated in 3.38525 seconds with 34 queries