Kirpan during Air Travel

thecoopes · #19 (**permalink**) 28-Sep-2006, 14:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKAUR1981

1) Firstly, please do not call the Shri Sahib/Kirpan "so-called" weapon.

2) Secondly, it depends on what school you go. Certain schools allow them and have restrictions e.g have a small Kirpan.

Good morning all lovers of peace.

Can someone please explain in simple straightforward terms how this Kirpan came to hold such importance to the Sikh faith?
Did Sikh always have this weapon?
When was it incorporated into the spirit of the Sikh tenets as an article of faith?

Also for the mind of a cynical Westerner who sees religion as an all pervasive means of control, do you not think that all religions could dig into their beliefs and come up with unacceptable practises that would be offensive or dangerous to other non believers?

For example, here in Britain we appear to hear nothing but the complaints of Muslims who demand the right to do things we find offensive and yet we cannot refuse there demands as these are part of their beliefs!

Arvind · #20 (**permalink**) 28-Sep-2006, 21:44 PM

Dear John,

Sikhi arrived when forcible conversions were on, and there was little freedom of religion.

Sikh Gurus raised the voice against the social injustices in various forms. Finally, Guru Gobind Singh brought Khalsa forward with a msg like - when all peaceful means fail, it is ok to raise a sword. First importance is ALWAYS to peace, but when all means to bring brain back to head fail, it is ok to do the needful.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14188-kirpan-during-air-travel.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14188

I tried my best, may be other members could explain better.

Thanks for asking.

Regards, Arvind.

thecoopes · #21 (**permalink**) 28-Sep-2006, 22:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arvind

Dear John,

Sikhi arrived when forcible conversions were on, and there was little freedom of religion.

Sikh Gurus raised the voice against the social injustices in various forms. Finally, Guru Gobind Singh brought Khalsa forward with a msg like - when all peaceful means fail, it is ok to raise a sword. First importance is ALWAYS to peace, but when all means to bring brain back to head fail, it is ok to do the needful.

I tried my best, may be other members could explain better.

Thanks for asking.

Regards, Arvind.

Thanks Arvind I understand a little better.
Now I know Sikh do not believe like Muslim that they must convert infidel by word or sword, so for me having Sikh with Knife is no problem.

However with all the problems we now have and the very real fear that someone with a knife who went mad could bring down a plane, is it not possible for dear Sikh friends to put their knife in the hold?
Why would this compromise Sikh faith?

kds1980 · #22 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2006, 00:28 AM

dear coopes the problem is that some sects of sikhism is aggressively promoting that 5ks should not be separated from the body for even a single minute which i disagree.you are right some fake guys could hijack plane pretending to be a sikh.those sects should understand this.

thecoopes · #23 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2006, 17:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kds1980

dear coopes the problem is that some sects of sikhism is aggressively promoting that 5ks should not be separated from the body for even a single minute which i disagree.you are right some fake guys could hijack plane pretending to be a sikh.those sects should understand this.

Do you think that this could ever be resolved so that Sikh does not feel that they have compromised their beliefs and the rest of us don’t have to worry whether the person who just boarded the plane is true Sikh and not some deranged terrorist who is pretending to be Sikh?
Also what if Sikh was overpowered by deranged lunatic and that lunatic got hold of Kirpan and proceeded to jihad on fellow passengers?
I have every sympathy with Sikh’s but feel that this is a non negotiable law.

Plane + Kirpan = danger

kds1980 · #24 (**permalink**) 29-Sep-2006, 19:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecoopes

Do you think that this could ever be resolved so that Sikh does not feel that they have compromised their beliefs and the rest of us don’t have to worry whether the person who just boarded the plane is true Sikh and not some deranged terrorist who is pretending to be Sikh?
Also what if Sikh was overpowered by deranged lunatic and that lunatic got hold of Kirpan and proceeded to jihad on fellow passengers?
I have every sympathy with Sikh’s but feel that this is a non negotiable law.

Plane + Kirpan = danger

dear coopes

what do you mean by resolved?majority of sikhs are non amritdhari they don't even wear kirpan.akal
takhat the highest body of sikhs has never said anything that sikhs should not remove kirpan.as i earlier said some sects are aggressively promoting
this so if you want that they should be satisfied then
i don't think it is possible.i agree with you that this is non negotiable law.those orthodox sikhs should understand this or they should not travel by air.
i don't want any tragedy to happen involing a sikh
or a fake.

thecoopes · #25 (**permalink**) 30-Sep-2006, 17:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kds1980

dear coopes

what do you mean by resolved?majority of sikhs are non amritdhari they don't even wear kirpan.akal
takhat the highest body of sikhs has never said anything that sikhs should not remove kirpan.as i earlier said some sects are aggressively promoting
this so if you want that they should be satisfied then
i don't think it is possible.i agree with you that this is non negotiable law.those orthodox sikhs should understand this or they should not travel by air.
i don't want any tragedy to happen involing a sikh
or a fake.

O, sorry. I thought Kirpan was becoming an issue with Sikh’s. We had at Manchester airport an issue with a Sikh and Kirpan earlier this year.

Regards

John c

BaljeetSingh · #26 (**permalink**) 03-Oct-2006, 00:26 AM

Dear John - I live in USA and recently made a presentation about Sikhs to local Police Cheif. The police cheif was very cooperative and asked me similar question about removing kirpan from a Sikh's person when searching a (Sikh) suspect stopped on a highway for any reason. I did not have a simple yes or no answer to that question without provoking an angry response from one section of Sikhs.

I travel by air with USA on a weekly basis and have decided to travel without a kirpan. I feel like I have left a portion of myself at home. The reason being that we as Sikhs pray in our daily prayers..."Jaha Jaha Khalsa Taha Taha Racchaiya Rihayat" meaning...wherever there is Khalsa, there is protection to weak. A Sikh is duty bound to help. A Sikh can be identified in a crowd of hundreds with his turban. So, I am not sure if there is a need to help, will I be able to protect (without my kirpaan).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14188

As regards it is a non-negotiable law....Well....laws are changed every day in all countries. The term is called Constitution Amendment. What we as Sikhs need to do is lobby the law makers and come up with a reasonable solution to this "issue" and amend the law as necessary. What that reasonable solution is something I do not have a clear answer (yet).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14188

Regards

jasbirsingh · #27 (**permalink**) 13-Oct-2006, 21:24 PM

guru fateh every body,read the discussion ..
dont laugh but i m serious,
today v need our own air lines AIR-KHALSA to stop making fun of commitment s made before guru roop panj pyares.v need some l n mittals.& few bill gates in our community.. b,cos without good money & power nothing is possible.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14188
guru fateh