Man Har Rang Rāṯā Gāvaigo / ਮਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਗਾਵੈਗੋ

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

As mentioned before there is nothing called transitive noun as you keep on insisting again and again but there are transitive and intransitive verbs.

So, please try once more with your explanation but this time with the correct grammar. I even offered my help to share with you the difference between these two verbs and you admitted that you were wrong thinking about a transitive noun but you have used the same thing again to prove something that does not exist.

Onkaar IS a proper noun. it means the ONLY ONE SOURCE of ALL there is.You are making things up again.How many Onkaars do you know that Gurbani talks about?

It is sad to know that you keep on twisting things when challenged as usual which is a shame.

You tried to play the same trick when challenged in the other thread where I proved you were wrong about the compound noun with preposition because you called it an adjective and then named it a transitive noun. I posted the Shabads with different examples and you stuck to one word Pramaatma translated by Prof. Sahib Singh and used it as a diversionary tactic from our specific topic from which we were trying to learn. Sadly, you never admitted your fault which is a shame.

Just for you to understand the difference, following is the definition:

Proper Noun Definition:
A noun belonging to the class of words used as names for unique individuals, events, or places. Contrast with common noun.

http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/propnounterm.htm

Please do not make things up especially as far as Gurbani is concerned. Admit when you do not know. We are all Sikhs and we are in here together to learn.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 
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TEJWANT SINGh Ji,

You can see that if the word ONKAAR was to be Proper NOUN then the word wouldhave been with a Matra of AUKAD as ONKAARu.
There is very limited use of the word ONKAAR and that too as PLURAL .
Try to understand SANSKRIT Grammar for transitives as NOUN,PRONOUN,VERB or ADVERB.This is not so in normal grammar you seem to be familiar.
With regards
PRAKASh.S BAGGA

P.S I just recollect that the meaning of the word ONKAAR is forDHUN(i) that is for SOUND. Does Gurbani connects us to SOUND or LIGHT.?
.

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

OK. I will agree with you for the sake of this argument that ONKAAR is NOT a proper noun but a common noun which means there are more than one ONKAAR in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji according to you. Please share the Gurbani Shabads with multiple ONKAARS, and btw, I know Sanskrit grammar which I discussed here sometimes ago in which I also mentioned that the verb conjugation of Sanskrit and Latin are one and the same. Many words in Latin are very similar to Sanskrit. The reason I am sharing this is because I have also studied Latin and was talking to a Latin scholar about it. This indicates that Sanskrit is older than Latin which he agreed with. No one knows how they are related to each other but there is a platonic relationship as far as grammar of both is concerned.

I will wait for the Shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, where there are several ONKAARS as a common noun according to you.

Please explain what you claim. Just claiming in not enough. You have to explain in a grammatical manner. Your justifications of Matra of AUKAD do not apply here but common sense does which grammar helps in creating because according to your claim there are many ONKAARS which is simply false.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Veer Tejwant Singh ji thanks for your response.

Veer ji that is exactly the sense I got when I was reading it and translating it. I came across the ਗੋ part as I was doing more translation in Sukhmani Sahib and cross checking some words.

To some extent this Grammar thing is little bit of a distraction. To claim a Gurbani with as wide a participation in terms of time frames from Baba Farid ji, Bhagat Kabir ji to Guru Tegh Bahadar ji's times is a little bit of stretch and dis-service. Sanskrit was not a course people needed to take before their writings could be in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I find it a bit non-sensical at times to be blunt.

Words of various languages yes but Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Punjabi.

I am sorry I did not mean to start this dialog in this fashion.

I hope my original translation at the start of this thread is OK. I just want to hear that and then this thread goes into hibernation unless a younger person wants some help, which I always try to give.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said.

Your translations are wonderful. They give the right message to all the readers. Grammar is for us because we enjoy Gurbani from all different aspects. Many people are satisfied and get Anand by just reading the literal translation because it is poetic. They do not think much about the prose.That is why your translations of other Shabads and Sukhmani are great help to many. It gives all of us the chance to ponder deeper about what our Gurus are trying to say.

I have no idea why Prakash Singh ji has only Sanskrit in mind for the whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sanskrit seems to be his only reference which is just being parochial minded and it makes him contradict himself again and again. According to him ONKAAR is a common noun which means there are multiple ONKAARS in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, not just ONE.

I hope he becomes open minded so we can all learn from each other.

Regards

Tejwant Singh