Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Masculine or Feminine and What is the Significance?

Ambarsaria · #1 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 10:14 AM

I share below couple of great comments I got from gurmatbibek site regarding this question.

1. Grammar oriented

Quote:

Gurbani grammar differentiates between masculine/feminine gender nouns by the presence or absence of SIHARI, BIHARI OR ONKAR, on them or the related adjectives or verbs of these nouns.

2. Essence and Reference

Quote:

In Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, there is hardly any reference to Vaheguru as feminine. Even when Guru Sahib calls Vaheguru Mata, He says "Mera Mata" and not "Meri Mata". But this does not mean that Vaheguru according to Gurbani is masculine.

Masculine and feminine qualities are only peculiar to this body. Our Atma and Parmatma are not gender based.

Additionally I believe, from what I understand, the use of masculinity in General in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is such that the female persona did not become a point of illustration and possible misuse. Feminine or female persona was considered sacred and beyond reproach and so was the use of such not common in dialog or the conveyance of messages of Guru jis. This is just my observation and I apologize ahead of time in any errors.

What do you think?

Sat Sri Akal.

prakash.s.bagga · #2 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 14:20 PM

AMBARSARIA Ji,
It is really an interesting subject which every Gursikh must become familiar to get clear understanding about the messages of Gurbani.
I personally feel that our understanding about CREATOR is confusing .According to Gurbani CREATOR is SYSTEM which itself is CREATED from the word GuRoo.Thus the source of SYSTEM CREATOR is the word GuROO itself.(This word GuRoo is GuR with Dulakad matra under its letter R).This we are not able to catchand hence the difference in understanding.

The words NOUNS and or ADJECTIVES are classified as
According to gender as Masculine/Feminine or Neutral
According to Vachan that is the number the word represents

Further there are several classification of Nouns and the most important found in Gurbani are Common Noun and COLLECTIVE NOUNS.
In Gurbani we have to understand the significance of COLLECTIVE NOUNS.
COLLECTIVE Nouns are words for representing two things together

GENDER OF WORDS In GURBANI
..........................................

In Gurbani the gender of the NOUN words is as
The NOUN words with a matra of AUKAD under its last letter is MASCULINE(SINGULAR) whereas the words without any matra under its last letter is FEMININE (SINGULAR)
.Further any FEMINIE(SINGULAR) is a MASCULINE (PLURAL)...This is very important to understand.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37654-creator-god-sri-guru-granth-sahib.html
If we apply the above grammer to the word GuR we can see

GuRoo.(Masuline,SINGULAR COLLECTIVE NOUN) and
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37654

GUR....(MASCULINE PLURAL) or FEMININE SINGULAR.

Now one can see that the word GuR is SINGULAR FMININE but PLURALMASCULINE
and this understanding can reveal the difference in the reference meanings of the words GuRoo/GuRu and GuR.

This is my personal understanding of Gurbani grammer and is subject to discussion.

Prakash.S.Bagga

sandeep17oct · #3 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 14:57 PM

CAll it whatever you like. Assign an attribute male to it if that pleases you or do the opposite . Does that change the word? Does it have an effect on the message that it tries to convey? These questions arise in the mind to distract the individual from the path and keep him/her astray. Concentrate on the Naam. No better time than this. Human life is rarest among the rare .Dont waste it on petty questions as these.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37654
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37654
Waheguruji ka Khalsa. Whaeguruji ki Fateh.

prakash.s.bagga · #4 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 15:10 PM

SANDEEP17Oct ji,
Well said ,but can you tell what is NAAM you are talking about.?

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37654
Prakash.S.Bagga

sandeep17oct · #5 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 15:13 PM

We are blessed in so many ways that we have the gift of the Naam with us if we keep that in mind we will never fall astray. With His grace we know Him and He Himself separates and then reunites.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37654
Waheguruji Ka Khalsa. Waheguruji ki Fateh.

sandeep17oct · #6 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 15:15 PM

The Naam is Waheguru.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga

SANDEEP17Oct ji,
Well said ,but can you tell what is NAAM you are talking about.?

Prakash.S.Bagga

prakash.s.bagga · #7 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 15:20 PM

SANDEEP 17 Oct ji,
Can you give any quote from Gurbani to confirm your message about NAAM as mentioned by your goodself.
Prakash.S.Bagga

sandeep17oct · #8 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 15:29 PM

Prakash Ji
Page 839, Line 18
ਤਹੀ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਸਾਚੋ ਨਾਉ ॥
तही निरंजनु साचो नाउ ॥
Ŧahī niranjan sācẖo nā▫o.
and concentrate on the pure True Name.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Quote:

Originally Posted by prakash.s.bagga

SANDEEP 17 Oct ji,
Can you give any quote from Gurbani to confirm your message about NAAM as mentioned by your goodself.
Prakash.S.Bagga

harry haller · #9 (**permalink**) 26-Nov-2011, 15:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeep17oct

CAll it whatever you like. Assign an attribute male to it if that pleases you or do the opposite . Does that change the word? Does it have an effect on the message that it tries to convey? These questions arise in the mind to distract the individual from the path and keep him/her astray. Concentrate on the Naam. No better time than this. Human life is rarest among the rare .Dont waste it on petty questions as these.
Waheguruji ka Khalsa. Whaeguruji ki Fateh.

Sandeepji,

I notice you are new to Sikhism, I welcome any debate on points such as these, they further our knowledge and understanding, You are also questioning someone who has been an inspiration to my understanding of Sikhism and has done much Seva in bringing concepts and translations to this forum.

I do not think the first posts someone new should make is a criticism of the thread discussion in a manner such as this, I detect arrogance, ego, anger, and yet in the thread question, just a desire to serve and a desire to be hunble, I hope your future contributions are a bit more positive and inclusive, rather than negative and divisive

best wishes