Opening of Rehras Sahib...

Navdeep88 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-Aug-2011, 06:58 AM

Dear members,

The opening of Rehras Sahib reads (I couldn't find a translation with both Gurmakhi and English, I hope the following is sufficient): Rehras Saahib

So Dar ~ That Door. Raag Aasaa, First Mehl:
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
Where is That Door of Yours, and where is That Home, in which You sit and take
care of all?
The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates there for You, and countless musicians play
all sorts of instruments there for You.
There are so many Ragas and musical harmonies to You; so many minstrels sing
hymns of You.
Wind, water and fire sing of You. The Righteous Judge of Dharma sings at Your
Door.
Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the conscious and the subconscious who keep the
record of actions, and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who reads this record, sing of
You.
Shiva, Brahma and the Goddess of Beauty, ever adorned by You, sing of You.
Indra, seated on His Throne, sings of You, with the deities at Your Door.
The Siddhas in Samaadhi sing of You; the Saadhus sing of You in contemplation.
The celibates, the fanatics, and the peacefully accepting sing of You; the fearless
warriors sing of You.
The Pandits, the religious scholars who recite the Vedas, with the supreme sages of
all the ages, sing of You.
The Mohinis, the enchanting heavenly beauties who entice hearts in paradise, in this
world, and in the underworld of the subconscious, sing of You.

I find it to be quite beautiful b/c its like a procession leading to God's throne. But I ask out of curiosity, what is the understanding of the beings I've highlighted that are not human... Where does Sikhism stand on angels/spirits? Please don't take this the wrong way, maybe its a bit of a dumb question.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/36575-opening-of-rehras-sahib.html
But reading the verses describing "Devtian, Darnala", I'd like some insight on what your understanding is of the spiritual realm and the beings described in Gurbani (the various worlds etc.)... considering Rehras Sahib is a daily prayer, I think understanding it is quite important. **I'm aware that there is some controversy etc. of the discussion of Hindu deities in Gurbani, thats not the dialogue that interests me, but in general, the idea of spiritual beings in Sikhism... Considering other faiths do have different spirits (ie. Native American), I ask out of curiosity where spirits stand in Gurbani and the understanding of Gurmat, if at all. And if not, what about these verses, are they not to be taken literally, but metaphorically?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36575

Also, the opening of Rehras Sahib provides almost a literal space for God. In comparison, Jaap Sahib defines God as without caste, without relation, strips away any and all constricts to space, time and place. ?????? *Confused

What is your understanding?

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 07-Aug-2011, 09:31 AM

The CHITAR....GUPT...and ANGELS..connection......old fashioned..line of thought....OUTDATED and REJECTED by GURU NANAK JI SAHIB.

It was always taught that Chitar and GUPT are two angels that SIT on ONES shoulders to WATCH..and RECORD....our every action for Dharam raaj to Check...WHEN we DIE !!

A deep understanding of GURBANI will reveal all this is RUBBISH.
Gurbani turns this entire fairy tale UP SIDE DOWN on its HEAD....

There are No chitar and no Gupt seated anywhere..least of all on the shoulders....how do they WRITE being seated precariously...ha ha...???

The CHITAR............is the PICTURE..the MARKS..each and every ACTION of OURS that we CREATE......on OUR "MANN"....our MIND.....and this picture is.....GUPT (SECRET). ONLY WE KNOW 100% whats on that PICTURE deep inside us....( The other perosn who knows is of course we never tire of saying..AKAL PURAKH !!!...although by the way we carry on MESSING UP THE CLEAN SHEET OF PRISTINE PAPER we were Born with..with all sorts of LIE Marks, evil thought markers, sketching devils with horns Kaam KRODH LOBH Moh Hnakaar Pride..lust etc etc and all that.........do we really beleive Akal purakh is SEEING all that ???..I DONT THINK SO..ha ha ha )
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36575

CHITAR........ picture deep inside us...kept GUPT from ALL...even our nearest and dearsets wives, fatehrs mothers confidantes...friends....NO ONE ELSE EXCEPT US !!

WHAT left shoulder and what right shoulder..what chitar and what gupt and what angel and what devil..all BORROWED RUBBISH being senselssly repeated and REGURGITATED while compeltley IGNORING GURBANI's latets Most MODERN GYAAN of the 3rd millineum..what fools we are... The GUPTCHITAR MESS is being created NOW..and HERE..and we LABOUR UNDER ITS WEIGHT NOW...and HERE..and not in some godforsaken place called "hell" of dharamraaj...blah !! The HELL is when we face our HUMAN friends, neighbours..and put up a FAKE FACE....of santhood...good neighbour..good father..great mother..kindness..sympathy..etc etc..WHEN DEEP INSIDE WE KNOW WELL>>ITS ALL FALSE...surface show....and when our INSIDE si whats on the OUTSIDE..thats HEAVEN.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 07-Aug-2011, 11:36 AM

Olden days Those SIKHS .....like Bhai Mani Singh who could SMILE at the Butcher cutting him joint by joint..and even point out to him that he "missed" a joint....and should follow the sentence to the letter....SHONE WITHOUT...due to the GREAT POWERHOUSE of PRACTICAL GURBANI WITHIN...the Picture (Chitar) INSIDE was so Bright and cheerful...that it was really TOUGH keeping it "GUPT"....thie faces SHONE..they had HALOS of Rings around their heads to challenge the Rings of SATURN.........Baba banda Singh bahadur..Baba DEEP Singh Shaheed..Baba Jiwan Singh Ranghreta..pick ANY ONE....the exact Same SHINING LIGHT BEACON of GURBANI....LIGHTHOUSE !!! what Chitar..

Navdeep88 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-Aug-2011, 01:12 AM

Gyani Ji,

Thank you for your reply. And I agree, the core of Gurbani is not about getting lost in this chase or that, but to aid and guide that ongoing internal record that we are each aware and responsible for.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36575

However, what is acknowledged in Gurbani deserves explanation, and I asked for the sake of basic understanding. These may be outdated beliefs, but considering they are repeated DAILY, understanding what they are and more importantly, what they stand for, is important.Thank you for the thorough Chitr, Gupt explanation... and extending it to the real life examples of martyrdom in Sikhi.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36575

Is there anything written on the various worlds??? I've heard their mention often...

**Just a curious note, if these were outdated and rejected by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, why are they mentioned in Gurbani???

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #5 (**permalink**) 08-Aug-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navdeep88

Gyani Ji,

Thank you for your reply. And I agree, the core of Gurbani is not about getting lost in this chase or that, but to aid and guide that ongoing internal record that we are each aware and responsible for.

However, what is acknowledged in Gurbani deserves explanation, and I asked for the sake of basic understanding. These may be outdated beliefs, but considering they are repeated DAILY, understanding what they are and more importantly, what they stand for, is important.Thank you for the thorough Chitr, Gupt explanation... and extending it to the real life examples of martyrdom in Sikhi.

Is there anything written on the various worlds??? I've heard their mention often...

**Just a curious note, if these were outdated and rejected by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, why are they mentioned in Gurbani???

Navdeep Ji,

I am glad that you asked...because SPN and GURU is ALL about "ASKING"...Ros Na KEEJEH..Uttar Deejeh.....and also..kichh sunneah..kicch kaheyeah Nanak...Vidya veecharee..taan parupkaree...Education is for the Benefit of others...IF we are "educated" or blessed with some knowledge...its of benefit only IF we SHARE with others..so that they too benefit from it....otherwise carrying all that knowledge to ones grave is such a waste ?? Just imagine where we all would be IF our Guru sahibaans hadnt been so kind as to GIFT us the Pio daddeh da Khazanah in 1429 Pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...even with this vast Gyaan da Sooraj shining for us we still flounder in darkness of aandh vishwaahs, rituals and karamkaands and look for candles and diwas to light our way. And sants and derawadees who claim to be the only ones distributing diwas..are like this story.

One BLIND shardhaloo went to his SANT-mahapurash and complained that people were constantly knocking into him and what could the sant do about that. The sant replied..I ma going to give you a LIGHTED TORCH....and you must carry it in front of you all the time...people will see the light shining form the torch and wont knock into you. Well things were ok for a while and the shardhaloo was very happy with hsi Sant Ji for solving his problem...until one fine day someone knocked into him so hard that he fell. Cursing loudly he shouted at the "offender" and asked him..Didnt you see the Lighted Torch in my hand you blind fool ? That was exactly what i was going to ask you..are you SO BLIND that you failed to see the bright torch i am carrying in my hand to let people know that I am coming ?? This is what these hundreds of thosuands of Sants and dehdharee gurus, mahapurashs etc etc are Handing out daily by the thousands...INSTANT AMRITDHAREES carrying the Shining Torches of their brand New 5 kakars and loud Nitnems and all that...BUT SPIRITUALLY as BLIND as the two Blind men carrying torches to prevent others knocking into them...These are the "Amritdharees" that take out their Kirpans on other Amritdharees at the slightest .."beadbi..satikaar..golcuk jhaggrra..gurdawra parbandh..etc etc Thats WHY we keep on hearing tales of Fights inside Gurdwaras...Those FIGHTS are the CLASH of the TWO BLIND MEN CARRYING TORCHES......or the Loud Siren given to two DEAF shardhaloos will never prevent them clashing into each other becasue neither can hear the warning sounds...

We at SPN are all together in a small effort to distribute genuine Knowledge..Gyaan of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...small drops of water from the Gyaan Sagar..Ocean of Divine Wisdom that we have in our GURBANI.

2. Now to your second question. The OUTDATED and mythological terms are indeed mentioned....BUT each time our GURU SAHIBS have given them ALL a GURMATT COLOUR and Perspective whicih is most times 180 degrees different from the established one. For EXAMPLE Gurbani mentions the MYTHOLOGICAL KAAMDHEN COW...Elyssian Cow in Greek Mythology !! This COW is amagical cow that has the power to Instantly GRANT its OWNER any WISH...IF for example the Owner suddenly wishes to eat vanilla Ice Cream..all hes got to do is approach the Kaamdhen Gaii and say.I wish i to eat vanilla icve Cream....and WHOOSHHHHHHHH out of thin air appears as many Gallons of Vanilla Ice cream as the owner wants...or a Luxury Condo...or a Luxury yacht to sail the High seas...whatever your heart desires..the Kaamdhen Gaii can GIVE INSTANTLY.

What does our GURU JI have to say about that...Our Guru ji declares..YES..there is such a thing as "Kamdhen gaii"....BUT its NAAM of Akal Purakh. The NAAM is even better than the Kamdhen Gaoo........
Its not only difficult..its impossible to drive out the kamdhen Myth...just by the very Fact that the MYTH exists in all popular mythological lines of major civilisations means its existence is "solid"..even though no one has seen it or owned it...Its just a tall tale ....But one so deply ingrained in the Imagination...so GURU JI thought of using this to BUILD UP ON the REAL Kaamdhen Cow..the NAAM of Waheguru that everyone can Have and many do have it...what is so achieveable and attainable....

Then there was the King Midas..who could make anything he touched turn into GOLD....just imagine how many persons must have secretly wished he/she had this "gift"...WOW and Double WOW...or the Magical Stone that turns other stones metals into GOLD by mere touch...PARAS Here gain a MYTH popularly ingrained so deep in peoples minds...and GURU Ji turned it into ..GURU PARAS...the GURU that makes SIKHS into PARAS...The GURBANI is one such PARAS that transforms ordinary sajjan THUGGHs into SANTS....Criminals into humanitarians....isnt that "magical enough "?? its positively MIRACOLOUS and REAL and PRACTICAL..unlike the Midas Touch which is imagination...but hugely popular...

Can you see GURU NANAK JI standing Chest deep in the Flowing Ganges River surrounded by thousands of Devout Hindus at KUMBH MELA throwing WATER to their DEAD and DEPARTED ANCESTORS residnet in the SUN. MILLIONS have doen this..and MILLIONS still do it..and possibly BILLIONS will do it in the FUTURE. What did GURU JI DO ? Here its not just a "MENTION"..as of the kamdehn Cow..or Chitar gupt....etc etc..HERE its GURU JI IN PERSON wading into the water..practically PERFORMING the very same RITUAL..........BUT.......with a LESSON that is 180 DEGREES OPPOSITE to the Kumbh mela Ritual. Guru Ji stands there and FACES the WEST...with His BACK to the SUN. INSTANTLY EVERYONE IS ELECTRIFIED....as If struck with a million volt lightning BOLT form the SKY ?? WHAT in heavens name is this "fool..sir phireah..mad man..etc etc DOING ?? Guru nanak ji himself writes in His Gurbani that many called him Bhootna..many called him Bechara (in sympathy way we call mad/beggars etc as becharaaa)...etc etc. OH FOOL..the pandits must have screamed..YOu are facing the WRONG DIRECTION....simialrly to the MULLAHS who screamed at Guru nanak ji in MECCA..( Over there Guru ji had his feet in the "wrong".. direction ha ha ). OH..is that so..asked Guru Ji innocently..what are you all doing ?? OH..we are sending this Ganga Water to our ancestors living in the SUN. OH..then its quite OK..I ma sending watert o my FIELDS in PUNJAB said Guru Ji. OH..then you are really and truly MAD....IF you beleive that the water you throw a few feet high can reach PUNJAB which a THOUSAND MILES away..laughed trhe CROWD...ha ha ha OH REALLY ?? replied Guru Ji..then HOW FAR is the SUN ?? How does your water ..also thrown a few feet high into the air..reach the SUN then ?? OH that is Different....a few replied sheepishly..knowing deep inside they have no reply..its not LOGICAL..BUT did that STOP them ?? NO..it didnt. Guru Ji wnet his way....to COOK a DEER meat DISH....another TABOO OBSERVED... to prevent the DRAGON EATING up the SUN during the eclipse...GURU JI USED the TABOO PRACTICALLY...to TURN that beleif alos on its HEAD....NO BODY cooks on Eclipse Day or the SUN will never come
out...GURU JI did cook and in PUBLIC VIEW...and the SUN DID COME OUT.

SO this is HOW..our GURUS are TRUE GYAAN DE SOORAJ...we have to HONOUR THEM by "dropping" the traditional OUTDATED MYTHS and fake beleifs..and acceot their ULTRA MODERN GYAAN that they gave us....sadly..most SIKHS today find the "Guru gifted NAAM" less appealing and tasteless and boring..compared to the DREAM of the kamdhen Cow...they go from pillar to post..from krishan mandir to shani mandir to ram mandir to ganesh mandir..from Raam rahim baab to Beas baba to Bheni sahib to rarrewllah..to Pir Dargahs to hanuman Cave to hemkunt to Hazoor shaib...buying lockets and shani karras and devi nazar bachaoo jantars and mantars....chaisng after the DREAM..that someone out there doesn really have the Kaamdhen Cow and he will give it to them...and those who have bene traditionally SNAKE OIL MERCHANTS..of course will keep on telling you...HAAN JI..of COURSE 100% Kaam dhen Gaai is ALIVE..or WHY ELSE Guru Ji mentioned it in Gurbani...??? Its there..somewhere..SHARDHA Chaheedee hai..ek din..jab KOI PUJJIAH HOYAH SANT DHARMATMA takkar giyah...dandaot bandanna kar ke.mangg leanni..ichha pooree ho javegee !!! and Liek FOOLS we fall for that..and waste our lives looking for that DREAM pujjiah hoyah mahapursh snat etc..and LEAVE the REAL THING..the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji safely covered up in rumallahs or sukhasaan in "Sach Khand" !!!..ICHHA POORAK sarab SUKH DAATA jis ke vass hei Kaam dhaneaa..is IGNORED....

I will discuss the other terms as i find the time to do so...