Yoga, and Other Practices, and Gurbani

oh. whoops,

isnt God considered 'the' Yogi?

har aapay jogee dandaaDhaaree.
har aapay rav rahi-aa banvaaree. har aapay tap taapai laa-ay taaree. pg 165 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/23637-yoga-and-other-practices-and-gurbani.html

what does this mean?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637

or taken from the Dasam Granth
'Khharti Ka Poot Hon, Baahman Ko Nahey, Kaiy Tapp Aavat Hon Jo Karon'

according to this Tapa is not really "reccomended"...can someone put this in some context?

 
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__________________

ਮਾਥੇ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਹਥਿ ਮਾਲਾ ਬਾਨਾਂ ॥
माथे तिलकु हथि माला बानां ॥
Māthe ṯilak hath mālā bānāʼn.
Some apply ceremonial marks to their foreheads, hold malas in their hands, and wear religious robes.

ਲੋਗਨ ਰਾਮੁ ਖਿਲਉਨਾ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੧॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
लोगन रामु खिलउना जानां ॥१॥
Logan rām kẖil▫a▫unā jānāʼn. ||1||
Some people think that the Lord is a play-thing. ||1|| (Page 1158)

This material world is the manifestation of God's material energy called Maya.
Another name for Maya is illusion or "that which is not".
It clings to this material world like a serpent.
Because of the mind's attachment to this Maya, one becomes extrovert, selfish,
greedy, envy, superstitious and doubt-ridden. Consequently, he does not get
to Realize his True Nature, which is Pure Consciousness.
On account of such deluded state, man begins to believe that
he can attain God by merely going for pilgrimage, parrot-like reciting
or memorizing of scriptures, keeping uncut hair, shaving head,
keeping Jataas or matted hair, wearing a Dhotee (loincloth) in certain style,
wearing a special short, hanging a sacred thread or a sword or a dagger on to the material body,
drinking a sweetened liquid called Amrit or Charnaamrit, wearing a rosary around the neck,
wearing rings, covering head with piece of a cloth or wearing a headgear, putting a mark on the forehead
and other parts of the body, wearing peculiar religious dress, performing Nitnem or five Namaaj,
attending sermons at organized religious places, keeping Akhand-Paath of scriptures (uninterrupted reading),
hiring Raagees or preachers to perform in one's house, sacrificing innocent animals in the name of religion and God,
renouncing the world, wandering in jungles and mountains, living in caves or secluded places, observing fasts,
abandoning family-life, keeping mum, performing rituals for material gains, praying for mundane objects,
becoming a religious fanatic, serving or following swindlers
in religious garbs (Saints, Bhais, Raagees, Baabaas, Gurus, Parchaaraks, Yogis, Swamis, and so on),
thinking oneself religiously better than others, keeping and maintaining the illusion that one can hide
his sinful actions from God, hating and killing people in the name of religion and God, applying ashes
to the body and torturing it, using religion for gaining name or fame, calling oneself a saint or Bhagwaan,
cheating and stealing on the name of religion, wandering naked, covering mouth with a piece of a white cloth,
performing magic like tricks to impress upon unsuspecting people, performing meditation or
Jap and Tap like a heron does, bathing in specific ponds or rivers, giving charity or donations, building temples,
taking initiation, baptizing, performing circumcision the list goes on and on.


ਕਾਹੂ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਧਰਮਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
काहू जुगति कितै न पाईऐ धरमि ॥
Kāhū jugaṯ kiṯai na pā▫ī▫ai ḏẖaram.
It cannot be obtained by any religious rituals. (Page 274)



http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart15.htm

oh. whoops,

isnt God considered 'the' Yogi?

har aapay jogee dandaaDhaaree.
har aapay rav rahi-aa banvaaree. har aapay tap taapai laa-ay taaree. pg 165 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

what does this mean?(quote Sinister Ji)
Sinister ji, Fourth Nanak,in the quoted Shabad(complete is given below), is expressing-Nirgun and Sargun) of the Lord, the Shabad doesn’t end up to Yogi only as you look at it. While expressing His Sroop, Guru ji starts from Yogi and endss it with the fisherman and his boat.It means He permeates in all and all over. In the thread, His Sargun Sroop’s”Yog practice” is addressed.
Here is the complete Shabad
ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਜੋਗੀ ਡੰਡਾਧਾਰੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪੈ ਲਾਇ ਤਾਰੀ ॥੧॥
Gauri Gaureri. 4th Guru. God Himself is the yogi, Staff-holder. God the gardener of the world-forest, Himself is pervading everywhere. God Himself practises penance and assumes contemplative mood.
ਹੱਥਵਿਚ ਡੰਡਾ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਭੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਉਹ ਹਰੀ-ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ (ਹਰ ਥਾਂ) ਵਿਆਪਕ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ (ਤਪੀਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਆਪਕ ਹੋ ਕੇ) ਹਰੀ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾ ਕੇਤਪ-ਸਾਧਨ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ।੧।

ਐਸਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਦੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Such is my Lord, who is fully filling all the places. God abides near at hand. He is not far off. pause.
(ਹੇਭਾਈ!) ਮੇਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹੈ। ਉਹ (ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ) ਨੇੜੇਵੱਸਦਾ ਹੈ (ਕਿਸੇ ਭੀ ਥਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਉਹ ਹਰੀ ਦੂਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਆਪੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਵੇਖੈ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਆਪੇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਜਪਾਇ ਆਪੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੇ ॥੨॥
God Himself is the Word and Himself the understanding, which is tuned to its music. God Himself beholds and He Himself blooms forth. God Himself recites the Word and He Himself causes others to recite it.
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਆਪ ਹੀ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਲਗਨ ਹੈ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ (ਸਭ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਵਿਚਬੈਠਾ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ-ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ) ਵੇਖ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ, ਆਪ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ) ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾਹੈ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ (ਸਭ ਵਿਚ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਾਮ) ਜਪ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ।੨।

ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਸਾਰਿੰਗ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਧਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਆਪਿ ਪੀਆਵਣਹਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
God Himself is the pied-cuckoo and Himself the torrential rain of Name-Nectar. God Himself is the draught-giver of the Name-Nectar. God Himself does everything, and Himself emancipates the mortals.
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਆਪ ਹੀ ਪਪੀਹਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਉਸ ਪਪੀਹੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ) ਵਰਖਾ ਦੀ ਧਾਰ ਹੈ। ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਾਮ-ਰਸ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਉਹ (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ) ਪਿਲਾਣਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪ ਹੀ (ਜਗਤ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ) ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਆਪ ਹੀ (ਜੀਵਾਂਨੂੰ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਤੋਂ) ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੩।

ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਬੇੜੀ ਤੁਲਹਾ ਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਵੈ ਪਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੬॥੪੪॥
God Himself is the boat, the raft and the boatman. through Guru's instruction, God Himself delivers the mortals. O Nanak, God Himself ferries men across the world-ocean.
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਆਪ (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘਣ ਲਈ) ਬੇੜੀ ਹੈ ਤੁਲਹਾ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਆਪ ਹੀਪਾਰ ਲੰਘਾਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਮਤਿ ਤੇ ਤੋਰ ਕੇ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਾਂਦਾਹੈ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੪।੬।੪੪। ❀ ਨੋਟ: ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮ: ੪ = ੬ ਸ਼ਬਦ। ਗਉੜੀ ਮ: ੧ = ੨੦ ਸ਼ਬਦ। ਗਉੜੀ ਮ: ੩ = ੧੮ ਸ਼ਬਦ।ਕੁੱਲ ਜੋੜ = ੪੪।

or taken from the Dasam Granth
'Khharti Ka Poot Hon, Baahman Ko Nahey, Kaiy Tapp Aavat Hon Jo Karon'

according to this Tapa is not really "reccomended"...can someone put this in some context?
I do not comment on Dasam Granth.
Note; I enjoyed your previous comment, still a smile is on my face.

[quote=aad0002;90814]Guru Nanak was critical of the yogic discipline of his time (Patanjali, later to become that of Sivananda). Investigate Gurbani and find that Gurbani has both the diagnosis and the cure.

Guru Nanak literally set the seekers of the Lord totally free from any kind of practice that had stringed attached with false promises. He took the seekers directly to the Creator by leading them to falling in love with him to remain imbued with Him forever. Such practice has no place for miracles or personal agenda to start a new kind of trade. I have not seen so free approach towards the Lord in any faith if the concept of His Hukam(Ordinance and Obeying(living in it) it, are understood well as they are presented in Gurbani.
Aad Bhain jio, you have done a wonderful work on bringing all these quotes along with your comments. It serves the purpose of my article. I am going to comment on all Guru Vakas you have quoted just to prove that it comes down to an approach(free of corruption) Guru is handed over to practice through True Guru(Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

Guru Nanak taught that the practices of yoga are no different from the practice of eating, and the eating of a pleasure-seeker and the practice of a yogi were equally driven by obsessions of the mind and compulsions of the body.

Ang730

ਜੋਗੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੋਗਵੈ ਭੋਗੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਖਾਇ ॥
jogee hovai jogavai bhogee hovai khaae ||
The Yogi practices yoga, and the pleasure-seeker practices eating.

Sant Kabir notes that yogis shave their heads, chant mantras, but they are bound up in the chains of their practices. They do not find peace in any of this. This is echoed by Guru Arjan Dev.
Do not wander about as a mendicant, making a show of poverty. Don’t go wandering about playing musical instruments. Instead realize that The Divine is in your own lap – find your nourishment close to your own heart.
This obviously states that outside show off is meaningless, then why even try to set up twelve sects in Yog matt itself? Why even then any body should take the word “Raj Yogi” in context of prevailed Yog sect, it must be understood as it is used.
The essence is of this is that “that Yoga” has no support from Gurbani
ਕਾਇਆ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਚੜਹਿ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥
kaaeiaa nagaree mehi mangan charrehi jogee thaa naam palai paaee ||3||
Go begging in the village of the body, Yogi, and then, you shall obtain the Naam in your lap. ||3||
Here Yogis’s begging from people is targeted and suggestion is inserted to look into within, another dominant factor of Guru Teachings.
ਇਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਸਚੁ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
eith kinguree dhhiaan n laagai jogee naa sach palai paae ||
This harp does not center you in meditation, Yogi, nor does it bring the True Name into your lap.
Why? Temptations of outside,like to impress others and to put a show of miracles to attract people lead to ego, a BIG wall between the Lord
ਇਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ਨ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥
eith kinguree saanth n aavai jogee abhimaan n vichahu jaae ||4||
This harp does not bring you peace, Yogi, nor eliminate egotism from within you. ||4||
Again why? This time, answer is inserted” the ego refuses to go in such practices, how union with the Lord is possible?” All practice is reduced to a cause of flaming ego within.
ਜੋਗੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੋਗਵੈ ਭੋਗੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਖਾਇ ॥
jogee hovai jogavai bhogee hovai khaae ||
The Yogi practices yoga, and the pleasure-seeker practices eating.
Sant Kabir notes that yogis shave their heads, chant mantras, but they are bound up in the chains of their practices. They do not find peace in any of this. This is echoed by Guru Arjan Dev.
Here physical and rituals are considered a bondage that never let the soul have real progression
Ang98
ਨਿਵਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਆਸਨ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
nivalee karam aasan chouraaseeh ein mehi saanth n aavai jeeo ||2||
They perform the inner cleansing practice with water and adopt the eighty-four Yogic postures; but still, they find no peace in any of these. ||2||
The Cure - A Better Sadhana
Guru Nanak noted how to be a true yogi. Who contemplate jugath the eternal path of dharma that binds us to truth and virtue are yogis.
True, t is a process taken by experts in physical aspect, it is bound to hinder soul’s spiritual growth due to which it becomes free from all negative forces. In it, sorrow or happiness are taken as His gift than special favors or punishment
Ang223 Line 9
ਐਸਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੈ ॥
aisaa jogee jugath beechaarai ||
Those who contemplate the Way are Yogis.
True yogis are those who see the interconnectedness of all creation are yogis, as they conquer their egos and with that find connection with everyone.
Because:jugat” the way to meet the Lord, must be known.
Ang 6
ਆਈ ਪੰਥੀ ਸਗਲ ਜਮਾਤੀ ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ ॥
aaee panthhee sagal jamaathee man jeethai jag jeeth ||
See the brotherhood of all mankind as the highest order of Yogis; conquer your own mind, and conquer the world.
Those who focus upon Shabad instead of the play yogi’s horn (this is a reference to the horn played by various orders of Yogis) are true yogis. They are the ones who receive the darshan of the SatGuru. Guru Nanak is talking about the naad or sound current of the shabad. Those who contemplate the shabadGuru are the ones who attain the vision of the SatGuru.
Here Guru is dissecting Yogis’ doctrine loaded with physical techniques and rituals; and he is advising them to reassemble it by listening to Guru and his teaching( which if is contemplated “naad” is felt and heard within).
Ang351
ਬੀਣਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜਾਵੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਦਰਸਨਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
beenaa sabadh vajaavai jogee dharasan roop apaaraa ||
The Yogi who plays on the instrument of the Shabad gains the Blessed Vision of the Infinitely Beautiful Lord.
The ancient scriptures -- all the sources of knowledge about the cosmos and creation revealed and handed down by the ancients shape and tone the intellect, but they do not open the intellect up to awareness. Therefore Guru Ram Das says,
Ang 368
ਜੋਗੀ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਮਤੀ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥
jogee har dhaehu mathee oupadhaes ||
O Yogi, give your intellect the Teachings of the Lord.
What are those teachings, here are they
ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਏਕੋ ਵਰਤੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਹਮ ਆਦੇਸੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
The one Lord Master is pervading all the ages through and I make obeisance unto Him. Pause.
And Guru Nanak says, He is a yogi who understands the way of dharma
Ang 662
ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਜੋ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥
so jogee jo jugath pashhaanai ||
He alone is a Yogi, who understands the Way.
He is a yogi who looks at all with a single eye – which means with the understanding that has no duality of perspective, that gold and dust are the same, that high and low caste are the same, in other words, with detachment, without emotionality, without bias or preference.
Exactly, this is the way to go not physical Yoga.
ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||
One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||
The way of a yogi should be the discipline of truth, contentment, and the feast should be of the name of truth, the Sat Nam. The practice of the yogi should be found in the support and shelter of meditation.
This is another example of progression through which only one gets elevated to that state of mind not with physical techniques
Ang 908
ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਪਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਝੋਲੀ ਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਭੁਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥
sath santhokh path kar jholee jogee anmrith naam bhugath paaee ||
Make truth and contentment your plate and pouch, Yogi; take the Ambrosial Naam as your food.
Another factors for consideration as per Gurbani to pursue union with Lord
ਧਿਆਨ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਵਜਾਈ ॥੨॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
dhhiaan kaa kar ddanddaa jogee sinn(g)ee surath vajaaee ||2||
Make meditation your walking stick, Yogi, and make higher consciousness the horn you blow. ||2||
Guru Nanak is saying give up the physical yoga, the aasana of postures, and make a s table mind the posture one sits in. In other parts of Gurbani Guruji says sit in the home of your own mind.
ਮਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਕਲਪਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥
man dhrirr kar aasan bais jogee thaa thaeree kalapanaa jaaee ||
Make your stable mind the Yogic posture you sit in, Yogi, and then you shall be rid of
Exactly, indeed, it starts with a struggle within and eventually ends up in Dhyaan, Physical techniques are merely for the body not the soul, for it, a complete over hauling is required.
ਮਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਕਲਪਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥
man dhrirr kar aasan bais jogee thaa thaeree kalapanaa jaaee ||
Make your stable mind the Yogic posture you sit in, Yogi, and then you shall be rid of tormenting desires.
ਤਿਸੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਕੀ ਨਗਰੀ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵਸੈ ਭੇਖੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
this jogee kee nagaree sabh ko vasai bhaekhee jog n hoe ||
In the body-village of that Yogi are all blessings; this Yoga is not obtained by outward show.
This obviously states that outside show off is meaningless, then why even try to set up twelve sects in Yog matt itself? Why even then any body should take the word “Raj Yogi” in context of prevailed Yog sect? It must be understood as it is used.
The essence is that “that Yoga” has no support from Gurbani.
I personally applaud your efforts to post this beautiful post so that Guru Message should be understood. I strongly feel Guru ji criticized every practice which could have been used to exploit people and were based on utter hypocrisy.

pk70 ji

Thank you for expanding on the meaning of the tuks. The thread has been a useful learning experience for me. I have always enjoyed yoga but never thought it was a way to discovery of the Sat Nam, and it bothers me tremendously when people practice various aasanas while chanting extremely spiritual verses from Guruji. My reaction is always to leave others alone and move over to give them room to follow what they believe. However the Sri Guru Granth Sahib has painted a picture that is hard to misread.

Yes -- The Lord Himself is the Yogi as described by Sri Guru Ram Das on Ang 165. Here is one of several shabads that answer the first part of your question


ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਜੋਗੀ ਡੰਡਾਧਾਰੀ ॥
har aapae jogee ddanddaadhhaaree ||
The Lord Himself is the Yogi, who wields the staff of authority.

ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪੈ ਲਾਇ ਤਾਰੀ ॥੧॥
har aapae rav rehiaa banavaaree || har aapae thap thaapai laae thaaree ||1||
The Lord Himself practices tapa - intense self-disciplined meditation; He is deeply absorbed in His primal trance. ||1||

ਐਸਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥
aisaa maeraa raam rehiaa bharapoor ||
Such is my Lord, who is all-pervading everywhere.

ਨਿਕਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਦੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
nikatt vasai naahee har dhoor ||1|| rehaao ||
He dwells near at hand - the Lord is not far away. ||1||Pause||

ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਆਪੇ ॥
har aapae sabadh surath dhhun aapae ||
The Lord Himself is the Word of the Shabad. He Himself is the awareness, attuned to its music.

ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਵੇਖੈ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਆਪੇ ॥
har aapae vaekhai vigasai aapae ||
The Lord Himself beholds, and He Himself blossoms forth.

ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਜਪਾਇ ਆਪੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੇ ॥੨॥
har aap japaae aapae har jaapae ||2||
The Lord Himself chants, and the Lord Himself inspires others to chant. ||2||

It means that one need look nowhere other than the Lord (be a Gurmukh and turn your face to the Lord and away from distractions) -- Look to the Lord to find the Lord.

The last line -- ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਜਪਾਇ ਆਪੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੇ ॥੨॥ har aap japaae aapae har jaapae ||2||
The Lord Himself chants, and the Lord Himself inspires others to chant. ||2||

Listen to His Chant - the Shabad of the Guru, the ShabadGuru, the Sound Current of the Shabad. A few lines earlier it says, ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਆਪੇ ॥
har aapae sabadh surath dhhun aapae || The Lord Himself is the Word of the Shabad. He Himself is the awareness, attuned to its music.

This is why one does well to lilsten to his Shabad, be attuned to His music , and open oneself to His inspiration to chant his music.

The shabad basically confrims the ideas posted earlier -- There is no need to look outward at 8 levels or 5 levels of yoga or 12 yoga disciplines (matts) to find the Divine Name. And the practice is also booby-trapped. There is the possibility of falling into the ego of false-spirituality which can take a person off the path of dharma permanentlly.


As to the question of or taken from the Dasam Granth
'Khharti Ka Poot Hon, Baahman Ko Nahey, Kaiy Tapp Aavat Hon Jo Karon

Sinister ji, you are using an non-standard transliteration scheme. Often times Punjabi speakers spell the Old Punjabi the way it sounds to them and the result is not searchable on search engines. So without the Gurmukhi or the panna for this tuk it has been difficult to find the shabad. Or you could give me a more standard transliteration. For example, do you mean by "Khharti" the word "Kartee" ? Or for "Kaly" do you mean "Kalee? Or for "tapp" do you mean "taap"? The only word that comes up on the engine from the tuk you quoted is "poot" and the tuk that you give is not associated with "poot" Could you mean Putanna in stead of "poot hon" ? Need the Gurmukhi minimally.

In Dasam Granth, a very interesting perspective on yoga surfaces that is even more critical in its view than found in Guru Granth. In Dasam Granth the practice of yoga is almost always associated with individuals who frequent cemetaries, cremation grounds, and battlefields strewn with dead warriors. In a metaphoric sense, they abide with ghoulish creatures who feed on the blood of dead warriors, feed on suffering. In other words, they are social and spiritual parasites. Please think about the meaning of this in historical context. I don't want to say anything in judgement today. Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji using powerful metaphors to keep his Sikhs close to the central messages of the Shabad Guru, painted images of yogis as souls who were truly lost. The image of the yogi/yogan in Dasam Granth is a topic of its own IMHO.

From panna 42, What Guru Gobind Singh has to say...Very clear

ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਦੋਉ ਲੋਚਨ ਮੂੰਦ ਕੈ ਬੈਠਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਕ ਧਿਆਨ ਲਗਾਇਓ ॥
कहा भयो जो दोउ लोचन मूंद कै बैठि रहिओ बक धिआन लगाइओ ॥
Of what use it is if one sits and meditates like a crane with his eyes closed.

ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਲੀਏ ਸਾਤ ਸਮੁਦ੍ਰਨਿ ਲੋਕ ਗਯੋ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਗਵਾਇਓ ॥
न्हात फिरिओ लीए सात समुद्रनि लोक गयो परलोक गवाइओ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
If he takes bath at holy places upto the seventh sea, he loses this world and also the next world.

ਬਾਸ ਕੀਓ ਬਿਖਿਆਨ ਸੋ ਬੈਠ ਕੈ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਐਸੇ ਸੁ ਬੈਸ ਬਿਤਾਇਓ ॥
बास कीओ बिखिआन सो बैठ कै ऐसे ही ऐसे सु बैस बिताइओ ॥
He spends his life in such performing evil actions and wastes his life in such pursuits.

ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹੋਂ ਸੁਨ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਭੈ ਜਿਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਕੀਓ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੯॥੨੯॥
साचु कहों सुन लेहु सभै जिन प्रेम कीओ तिन ही प्रभ पाइओ ॥९॥२९॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
I speak Truth, all should turn their ears towards it: he, who is absorbed in True Love, he would realize the Lord. 9.29.

ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਪਾਹਨ ਪੂਜ ਧਰਯੋ ਸਿਰ ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਲਿੰਗ ਗਰੇ ਲਟਕਾਇਓ ॥
काहू लै पाहन पूज धरयो सिर काहू लै लिंग गरे लटकाइओ ॥
Someone worshipped stone and placed it on his head. Someone hung the phallus (lingam) from his neck.

ਕਾਹੂ ਲਖਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਾਚੀ ਦਿਸਾ ਮਹਿ ਕਾਹੂ ਪਛਾਹ ਕੋ ਸੀਸੁ ਨਿਵਾਇਓ ॥
काहू लखिओ हरि अवाची दिसा महि काहू पछाह को सीसु निवाइओ ॥
Someone visualized God in the South and someone bowed his head towards the West.

ਕੋਉ ਬੁਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਸੁ ਕੋਉ ਮ੍ਰਿਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਨ ਧਾਇਓ ॥
कोउ बुतान को पूजत है पसु कोउ म्रितान को पूजन धाइओ ॥
Some fool worships the idols and someone goes to worship the dead.

ਕੂਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਉਰਿਝਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੋ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧੦॥੩੦॥
कूर क्रिआ उरिझओ सभ ही जग स्री भगवान को भेदु न पाइओ ॥१०॥३०॥
The whole world is entangled in false rituals and has not known the secret of Lord-God 10.30.

Aad Jio, thanks again for expressing clearly described truth (in response to sinister ji’s post), it aligns with Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sangat ji, enjoy the following a simple but vital Guru bachan
Love of Lord and dealing with the world
. ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਸਾਚਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਲਾਗਾ ॥ ਲੋਗਨ ਸਿਉ ਮੇਰਾ ਠਾਠਾ ਬਾਗਾ ॥੧॥
Āsā mėhlā 5. Sācẖ nām merā man lāgā. Logan si▫o merā ṯẖāṯẖā bāgā. ||1||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
Asa 5th Guru. With the True Name, my soul is attached. With people I have but artificial dealing.
(ਹੇਭਾਈ!) ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨ ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਚ (ਸਦਾ) ਜੁੜਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾਹੈ, ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਮੇਰਾ ਉਤਨਾ ਕੁ ਹੀ ਵਰਤਣ-ਵਿਹਾਰ ਹੈ ਜਿਤਨੇ ਦੀ ਅੱਤ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀਲੋੜ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ।੧।
Direct instruction for a Sikh to change and no to all show off
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਥਿਰੁ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਪਾਵਹੁ ॥੨॥
Saṯgur kā sacẖ sabaḏ kamāvahu. Thir gẖar baiṯẖe parabẖ apnā pāvhu. ||2||
Act up to the true Gurbani of the True Guru. Sit in thy home and obtain thy ever-stable Lord.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
(ਹੇਭਾਈ!) ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਵਾਲੇ ਗੁਰ-ਸ਼ਬਦ ਨੂੰ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚਰੱਖੋ (ਸ਼ਬਦ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਆਪਣਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਘੜਦੇ ਰਹੋ। ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਆਪਣੇ) ਹਿਰਦੇ-ਘਰਵਿਚ ਅਡੋਲ ਟਿਕੇ ਰਹੋਗੇ (ਭਟਕਣਾ ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਏਗੀ) ਤੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਹੀ ਲੱਭਲਵੋਗੇ।੨।

ਜਲ ਕੈ ਮਜਨਿ ਜੇ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਮੇਂਡੁਕ ਨਾਵਹਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=23637
जल कै मजनि जे गति होवै नित नित मेंडुक नावहि ॥
Jal kai majan je gaṯ hovai niṯ niṯ meʼnduk nāvėh.
If salvation can be obtained by bathing in water, then what about the frog, which is always bathing in water?