Serving a True Guru

AmbarDhara · #1 (**permalink**) 18-Feb-2008, 18:18 PM

Serving a True Guru

A true Guru is one who knows the Truth, who is Eternal, so is capable of showing us the True Path to reach the Ultimate Truth. Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Gurbani is my True Guru, The Divine Light. It dwells in my heart. I have made Singing Lord's Praises my occupation(way of living). I do it by all means and I do it for all the time. This is my service towards my Guru. I share my Guru's words with others as well.

Today I am going to share the following Shabad with those who are interested in Gurbani. In this Shabad Guru Ji describes :What happens when we place our faith in the True Guru.

Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar

Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ANG 18

SATGURU PRASAAD

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
sireeraag mehalaa 1 ||
Siree Raag, First Mehl:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/19986-serving-a-true-guru.html

ਭਲੀ ਸਰੀ ਜਿ ਉਬਰੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੁਈ ਘਰਾਹੁ ॥
bhalee saree j oubaree houmai muee gharaahu ||
It all worked out-I was saved, and the egotism within my heart was subdued.

ਦੂਤ ਲਗੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥
dhooth lagae fir chaakaree sathigur kaa vaesaahu ||
The evil energies have been made to serve me, since I placed my faith in the True Guru.

ਕਲਪ ਤਿਆਗੀ ਬਾਦਿ ਹੈ ਸਚਾ ਵੇਪਰਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
kalap thiaagee baadh hai sachaa vaeparavaahu ||1||
I have renounced my useless schemes, by the Grace of the True, Carefree Lord. ||1||

ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਉ ਜਾਇ ॥
man rae sach milai bho jaae ||
O mind, meeting with the True One, fear departs.

ਭੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਕਿਉ ਥੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
bhai bin nirabho kio thheeai guramukh sabadh samaae ||1|| rehaao ||
Without the Fear of God, how can anyone become fearless? Become Gurmukh, and immerse yourself in the Shabad. ||1||Pause||

ਕੇਤਾ ਆਖਣੁ ਆਖੀਐ ਆਖਣਿ ਤੋਟਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
kaethaa aakhan aakheeai aakhan thott n hoe ||
How can we describe Him with words? There is no end to the descriptions of Him.

ਮੰਗਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੇਤੜੇ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੋ ਸੋਇ ॥
mangan vaalae kaetharrae dhaathaa eaeko soe ||
There are so many beggars, but He is the only Giver.

ਜਿਸ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣ ਹੈ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
jis kae jeea paraan hai man vasiai sukh hoe ||2||
He is the Giver of the soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life; when He dwells within the mind, there is peace. ||2||

ਜਗੁ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਬਾਜੀ ਬਨੀ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਖੇਲਾਇ ॥
jag supanaa baajee banee khin mehi khael khaelaae ||
The world is a drama, staged in a dream. In a moment, the play is played out.

ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਏਕਸੇ ਵਿਜੋਗੀ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
sanjogee mil eaekasae vijogee outh jaae ||
Some attain union with the Lord, while others depart in separation.

ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋ ਥੀਐ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣਾ ਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
jo this bhaanaa so thheeai avar n karanaa jaae ||3||
Whatever pleases Him comes to pass; nothing else can be done. ||3||

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਵੇਸਾਹੀਐ ਸਚੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਸਚੁ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
guramukh vasath vaesaaheeai sach vakhar sach raas ||
The Gurmukhs purchase the Genuine Article. The True Merchandise is purchased with the True Capital.

ਜਿਨੀ ਸਚੁ ਵਣੰਜਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥
jinee sach vananjiaa gur poorae saabaas ||
Those who purchase this True Merchandise through the Perfect Guru are blessed.

ਨਾਨਕ ਵਸਤੁ ਪਛਾਣਸੀ ਸਚੁ ਸਉਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੧੧॥
naanak vasath pashhaanasee sach soudhaa jis paas ||4||11||
O Nanak, one who stocks this True Merchandise shall recognize and realize the Genuine Article. ||4||11||

Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan

Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa

Gurbani Gavo Bhaee

charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o

Nirmaljot Baidwan · #2 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 01:03 AM

AMBARDHARA ji

Your explanation of a TRUE GURU is not sufficient. I'd love it if you throw some light. You said true guru is one who knows the truth.I want to ask you "What is the truth???"

WHAT IS BAANI???
You have written that singing Lord's praises is my service to him. But i have to tell you here for your own benefit that singing Lord's praises is not the SERVICE with which you will merge with the almighty. Singing his praises is not the way he pleases. The objective of this life is to merge with him. Singing lord's praises is not going to take you anywhere.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986

You have also written that you share Guru's words with others as well, it is welcomed if that sharing takes the listener to the right path but you yourself are not aware that singing lord's praises is not the true service to him.

spnadmin · #3 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 02:07 AM

Nirmaljot Baidwan ji

First, please avoid the use of caps and bold caps when posting as it looks like screaming and we ask members not to do this.

Very interesting ideas you have put out for discussion. Help me understand a little better what your own understanding is. It is difficult for me to understand how and why you differ with Ambardhara.

Quote:

Your explanation of a TRUE GURU is not sufficient. I'd love it if you throw some light. You said true guru is one who knows the truth

. How do you define True Guru?

Quote:

I want to ask you "What is the truth???"

How do you define the truth?

Quote:

WHAT IS BAANI???

What is your definition of baani?

Quote:

i have to tell you here for your own benefit that singing Lord's praises is not the SERVICE with which you will merge with the almighty. Singing his praises is not the way he pleases.

What do you think pleases him?

Quote:

The objective of this life is to merge with him. Singing lord's praises is not going to take you anywhere.

What do you think will take us there?

Quote:

you yourself are not aware that singing lord's praises is not the true service to him.

What do you believe is true service to him?

If you can bear with these questions and answer them the thread will mean more and we will know what you think. That will make the discussion more interesting. :happykaur:

Nirmaljot Baidwan · #4 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 09:00 AM

SPNADMIN JI

i'll surely put my thoughts forward regarding all the questions i put. But i want to know the understanding of AmbarDhara ji Or anyone else can get into it and reply to what questions i have put. Then i'll surely answer to the questions that i put.

THANKS

spnadmin · #5 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 09:32 AM

Our problem is that Ambardhara does not visit the forum any more. So we would be waiting , for some of us, until we are called to the Court of the Lord, before anything would happen. So why don't you go ahead. It will make things more interesting if you do and in my case I will get to read your ideas before I am called to account.

Ambarsaria · #6 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Our problem is that Ambardhara does not visit the forum any more. So we would be waiting , for some of us, until we are called to the Court of the Lord, before anything would happen. So why don't you go ahead. It will make things more interesting if you do and in my case I will get to read your ideas before I am called to account.

spnadmin ji Ambarsaria here to roll the ball as one might say. I think there is enough common between the two Ambars (skies), Ambardhara/Ambarsaria

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan

AMBARDHARA ji

Your explanation of a TRUE GURU is not sufficient. I'd love it if you throw some light. You said true guru is one who knows the truth.I want to ask you "What is the truth???"

WHAT IS BAANI???
You have written that singing Lord's praises is my service to him. But i have to tell you here for your own benefit that singing Lord's praises is not the SERVICE with which you will merge with the almighty. Singing his praises is not the way he pleases. The objective of this life is to merge with him. Singing lord's praises is not going to take you anywhere.

You have also written that you share Guru's words with others as well, it is welcomed if that sharing takes the listener to the right path but you yourself are not aware that singing lord's praises is not the true service to him.

Nirmaljot Baidwan ji I read your post with interest and some assumptions as to what you were projecting. While it is good to say something is not right, I think it is also equally if not more important to describe what that right is. I believe that is where most of spnadmin ji's questions stem from.

I can comment but I cannot comment on your behalf, because I am not you even though we are all from one

.

Your post actually started a little spark in my head and I hope it is in line with the content of this thread.

What I read so far is the emphasis on "service" and specifically service to the Guru.

For example is it a valid service to recite praises of the Guru or God? I would say it is not just as you seem to say in your post. Let me explain,

Praise is the act of making positive statements about a person, object or idea, either in public or privately. Praise is typically, but not exclusively, earned relative to achievement and accomplishment.
- Does God need our praise as an action, my suggestion will be no, it is not required.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is a treatise with many and large number of Shabads steering us towards one God that is the creator of all and praising the same God that is everywhere and in each of us.
- - Through shabads about our mortality
  - Through shabads about the greatness of God's creation
  - Through shabads about getting rid of wrong assumptions about God and the worship
  - Through shabads about false worldly techniques and practices about salvation
  - ..... and a very large quantity of others
Given the contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, what is the praise we mortals can offer
- - We can understand ourselves whether through understood singing, reciting, etc.
  - We can understand through discourse.
  - We can share our understanding through any of recitation, discourse, facilitating access
    - The focus must be on understanding though
  - This I will call praising in the right sense where the praise is,
    - Not to say how good God is but understanding what it is.
    - Not to sing how good God is but understanding what it is.
    - Not to recite how good God is but understanding what it is.
The only override for me in the above is per the saying, "does the end justify the means"
- Say we all the creation of God have different techniques towards understanding, can those be followed?
  - For me the answer would be "Yes" as long as we don't start taking measure in contradiction of the teachings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji
    - Say start looking for "Gurus", "Cheat sheets or fast tracker sant mahants", etc., as these will create enough of a barrier that the results will be a mirage of success while in fact these will be a failure

I hope this gives some food for thought in this thread.

I believe upto this point no one is totally wrong or off course in this thread but perhaps there are red flags here and there which require some clarification.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I personally find music a good solace in this crazy world as it gives you the rhythm and the message if you try to understand the words. Aside from Shabad Kirtan, Gurdass Mann and the like, I enjoy the following type and always ponder whether some of Baba Bulley Shah writings would have been considered by our Gurus has Baba Bulley Shah been born few centuries earlier,

Baba Bulleh Shah - Sher Miandad Khan - Raaz Dhiya Gallan

YouTube - Baba Bulleh Shah - Sher Miandad Khan - Raaz Dhiya Gallan

Nirmaljot Baidwan · #7 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 10:10 AM

AMBARSARIA JI

I somewhat agree with your thoughts particularly when u say.

"This I will call praising in the right sense where the praise is,

Not to say how good God is but understanding what it is.
Not to sing how good God is but understanding what it is.
Not to recite how good God is but understanding what it is.

"
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
But from where will the understanding of that almighty will come??? This is still a question. It cannot come with our own designed methods. Is there any method that god himself created to meet him. If he could be achieved by just reciting hymns or baani(AKHRI BAANI) then everyone would have been to SACHKHAND. But this is not the truth as we can see that many who teach the masses or tell the masses about spirituality are entangled in many controversies. This world is full with false gurus, but on the other hand this world has never been fair to the true saints because the true saints preached what is the truth & truth is not liked by many. You can take examples of our gurus only from First Mehl to tenth Mehl, the world was not even fair to them.

But cant there be any true saint in this world??? Is sikhism against saints and saadhs???
Suppose if Guru Nanak comes again to this world, will we be able to recognise him???

Well this might be getting out of the context of the thread, this was just a thought that came to my mind and i shared.

Talking about the questions i put, i'll surely answer them but i need time. May be few hours.

THANKS & REGARDS

Ambarsaria · #8 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan

AMBARSARIA JI

I somewhat agree with your thoughts particularly when u say.

"This I will call praising in the right sense where the praise is,

Not to say how good God is but understanding what it is.
Not to sing how good God is but understanding what it is.
Not to recite how good God is but understanding what it is.

"
But from where will the understanding of that almighty will come??? This is still a question. It cannot come with our own designed methods. Is there any method that god himself created to meet him. If he could be achieved by just reciting hymns or baani(AKHRI BAANI) then everyone would have been to SACHKHAND. But this is not the truth as we can see that many who teach the masses or tell the masses about spirituality are entangled in many controversies. This world is full with false gurus, but on the other hand this world has never been fair to the true saints because the true saints preached what is the truth & truth is not liked by many. You can take examples of our gurus only from First Mehl to tenth Mehl, the world was not even fair to them.

But cant there be any true saint in this world??? Is sikhism against saints and saadhs???
Suppose if Guru Nanak comes again to this world, will we be able to recognise him???

Well this might be getting out of the context of the thread, this was just a thought that came to my mind and i shared.

Talking about the questions i put, i'll surely answer them but i need time. May be few hours.

THANKS & REGARDS

Nirmaljot Baidwan

Quote:

But cant there be any true saint in this world??? Is sikhism against saints and saadhs???
This is one of the essences of our Gurus teachings to tell us that God/Sachkhand is within each of us. You don't need a third person to find what is inside you.

So Gurbani in Shabad after Shabad helps with this self discovery if you put your resources to it. Only a "Pakhandi" can let you hitch a ride to Sachkhand/God. Analogy is you probably seen lot of Babey/Pundits/Clairvoyants telling you on TV how they can solve all your problems and bring you luck. How come they cannot pick a lottery number every time (I am sure it is simpler than finding God) but are too happy to put their hand in your pocket. This is "Gol Mol" (a thievery) business and nothing more nothing less

So in the end only you are in-charge of yourself.

Quote:

Suppose if Guru Nanak comes again to this world, will we be able to recognise him???

The power of persuasion of Guru Nanak Dev ji, the fearlessness so awesome, and their humbleness so high, that he will be easily recognizable. How will you recognize,

You will see Baba Nanak kick some serious butt of the,
- Radhasowamis, Nanaksarias, Ramdasias, Sach Khandias,etc., without favoring any one of these
  - So by corollory baba Nanak is not there in any of these or other places
- Hindu establishment in Delhi and their surrogates who have forgotten why they are still Hindu!
- He will go after the Talibans, the Ayatollahs, the Akalis, the BJP, and the like to call their bluffs

Ek baba Nanak si - Babbu Mann's Latest Song - By SharanHayer

YouTube - Ek baba Nanak si - Babbu Mann's Latest Song - By SharanHayer

Sat Sri Akal.

Nirmaljot Baidwan · #9 (**permalink**) 02-Mar-2011, 11:39 AM

@ ambarsariya
I quote you.
""This is one of the essences of our Gurus teachings to tell us that God/Sachkhand is within each of us. You don't need a third person to find what is inside you"".

That is absolutely right that everything is within us and v'll find everything within us but have you found the way with which v'll find everything within us???? I have read & understood gurbani again and again but it does not tell me that by reading you will find everything within us.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986