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02-Mar-2011, 12:26 PM
|  | .jpg) | | | Enrolled: Jan 18th, 2011 Age: 25
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| |  | | | Re: Serving a True Guru
guru saheb said
sB mih ieku vrqdw eyko rihAw smwie ] (27-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
The One Lord permeates all. The One Lord is pervading everywhere.
ijs nau Awip dieAwlu hoie so gurmuiK nwim smwie ]2] (27-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
That Gurmukh, unto whom the Lord shows His Kindness, is absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||
piV piV pMifq joqkI vwd krih bIcwru ] (27-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
After all their reading, the Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers argue and debate.
miq buiD BvI n buJeI AMqir loB ivkwru ] (27-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Their intellect and understanding are perverted; they just don't understand. They are filled with greed and corruption. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/19986-serving-a-true-guru.html
lK caurwsIh Brmdy BRim BRim hoie KuAwru ] (27-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
Through 8.4 million incarnations they wander lost and confused; through all their wandering and roaming, they are ruined.
guru saheb has clearly said that too much reading results to debate and arguing. It also leads to ego (haomai). Guru saheb gives us the example of PANDITS but this example is according to his time. These days sikhs are also in the same league, just like pandits recite hymns , we sikhs are parroting gurbani, reading superficially. The need of the hour is to understand what guru saheb has said, i.e just reading will not take you anywhere. I hope you agree with me. Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh! |
02-Mar-2011, 13:02 PM
| | | | | Enrolled: Jan 18th, 2011 Age: 25
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| | | | | Re: Serving a True Guru
well sir i do read with an open mind and if i write some things in here because of my open mindset i am sure i'd ruffle many feathers here.
I'd like to correct you regarding the perception you have about me sir. I do not read to prove my point of view. I write what i read that means i read first and then write , not that i write first and then read to prove myself. I do not read anybody's translation because everybody has their own mind set. I only read what GURU SAHEB wrote. And many thoughts are expressed by GURU SAHEB in very simple language like the shabd i quoted from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I Just searched Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji randomly and i found that shabad. What i told you is said by guru saheb many many times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that reading will not take you anywhere and i'll stay on my words. May be i can quote many more shabads from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to bolster the concept of reading. And sir i dont just read the lines of gurbani i understand them and i read the whole shabd. U tell me here that u are a bit old sir, and you also talked about oneness and realisation within, in an earlier post. Can i ask you what realisation you have had within??? Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986
Dont you think sir that after death anyone can realise the truth , when he/she cant during their lifetime.
THANKS& REGARDS.  |
03-Mar-2011, 12:42 PM
| | | | | Enrolled: Jan 18th, 2011 Age: 25
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Liked 15 Times in 5 Posts
| | | | | Re: Serving a True Guru
NOW I COME TO THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE THREAD
I put forward some questions and spnadmin ji requestioned those questions. I’d like to discuss my views with an open mind as suggested by Ambarsaria ji.
1st Ques- How do you define True Guru?
Ans- True guru is the one who proscribes or prohibits his follower or we can say sikhs from mundane deeds or mundane affairs or rituals because a true guru tells us that these mundane deeds or rituals are not the right path to salvation or merging with the almighty. Guru sahib has told us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that the true teerath or srovar(holy pond) is within us, inside us & not anywhere else.
A true guru will never tell us to be involved in rituals or mundane affairs . He will not tell us stories, he will tell us the truth, he will only speak about the truth, rather he’ll show you the truth. Is there any technique that guru will tell us to merge with him ??? Infact yes there must be a technique , that’s why guru nanak dev ji said in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on pg 58 ll੪ll ਹਉ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਆਪ੍ਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਉ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਓ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਮਿਲਾਵੜਾ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਚਿ ਮਿਲਾਓ ll੫ll This is the verse between the number locks 4 & 5 of the shabad of Sri guru nanak dev ji. Guru sahib clearly tells us that “I ASKED MY GURU & THEN I STARTED TO WORK ON THE PATH AS TOLD BY MY GURU” . Guru sahib in other two lines of the verse tells us that after asking my guru I started to n the path of shabad & this destroyed my ego & after that gradually the true guru (ਸਾਚੇ) helped me meet the truth (ਸਾਚਿ). So its with the grace of true Guru Nanak met the truth , Guru Nanak who was himself SHABD SAROOP(form of shabd)needed a true guru, then who are we , who can meet the truth on our own??? One more interesting point here from this shabad is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a guru but there was a lot of ambiguity as to who was his guru. But this ambiguity doesn’t change the fact that We need a true guru. INTERESTINGLY I was further reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and I found another Shabad where Guru nanak talked about his Guru And his guru’s grace. On pg 14th Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ll ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉll llਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ll llਮਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ll੧ll llਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉll llਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ll੧llਰਹਾਉll here again guru sahib is talking about his guru. So a guru is must. Also Guru nanak’s guru must be a human a man as was with 2nd , 3rd ,4th ,5th ……..10th guru. Also guru raam dass ji says IN Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on pg 40 which bolsters the concept of a man being a true guru. ਨਾਮੁਮਿਲੈਮਨੁਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੀਐਬਿਨੁਨਾਮੈਧ੍ਰਿਗਜੀਵਾਸੁ ਕੋਈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸਜਣੁਜੇਮਿਲੈਮੈਦਸੈਪ੍ਰਭੁਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ ਹਉਤਿਸੁਵਿਟਹੁਚਉਖੰਨੀਐਮੈਨਾਮਕਰੇਪਰਗਾਸੁll੧ll ਮੇਰ੍ਰੇਪ੍ਰੀਤਮਾਹਉਜੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁਧਿਆਇ ਬਿਨੁਨਾਵੈਜੀਵਣੁਨਾਥੀਐਮੇਰੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਨਾਮੁਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏll੧llਰਹਾਉllReference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986 ਨਾਮੁਅਮੋਲਕੁਰਤਨੁਹੈਪੂਰੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਪਾਸਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਸੇਵੈਲਗਿਆਕਢਿਰਤਨੁਦੇਵੈਪਰਗਾਸਿ ਧੰਨੁਵਡਭਾਗੀਵਡਭਾਗੀਆਜੋਆਇਮਿਲੇਗੁਰਪਾਸਿll੨ll ਜਿਨਾਸਤਿਗੁਰਪੁਰਖੁਨਾਭੇਟਿਓਸੇਭਾਗਹੀਣਵਸਿਕਾਲ ਓਇਫਿਰਿਫਿਰਿਜੋਨਿਭਵਾਈਅਹਿਵਿਚਿਵਿਸਟਾਕਰਿਵਿਕਰਾਲ ਓਹਨਾਪਾਸਿਦੁਆਸਿਣਭਿਟੀਐਜਿਨਅੰਤਰਕ੍ਰੋਧੁਚੰਡਾਲll ੩ll ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪੁਰਖੁਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰੁਵਡਭਾਗੀਨਾਵਹਿਆਇ ਉਨਜਨਮਜਨਮਕੀਮੈਲੁਉਤਰੈਨਿਰਮਲਨਾਮਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ ਜਾਂਨਾਨਕਉਤਮਪਦੁਪਾਇਆਸਤਿਗੁਰਕੀਲਿਵਲਾਇll I have quoted the whole shabd here but only to show that guru sahib has used the words “SAJJAN” & “PURKH” PURKH clearly stands for a “MAN”, SAJJAN is also used to describe the quality of a man where a person is very helpful or seeks our well being. Its written “KOI GURMUKH SAJJAN JE MILAI MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS” KOI signifies to me that probability of someone being a true guru is not very high but guru sahib says if you meet a true guru he will tell you about the GOD “MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS” Guru sahib at some other place in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has mentioned that “ avar kaaj tere kitae naa kaam, mil saadh sangat bhaj keval naam” Gurur sahib is askin us to meet a saadh or sant that’s why I asked AMBARSARIA JI that is Sikhism against saints???? He replied “This is one of the essences of our Gurus teachings to tell us that God/Sachkhand is within each of us. You don't need a third person to find what is inside you.
So Gurbani in Shabad after Shabad helps with this self discovery if you put your resources to it. Only a "Pakhandi" can let you hitch a ride to Sachkhand/God. Analogy is you probably seen lot of Babey/Pundits/Clairvoyants telling you on TV how they can solve all your problems and bring you luck. How come they cannot pick a lottery number every time (I am sure it is simpler than finding God) but are too happy to put their hand in your pocket. This is "Gol Mol" (a thievery) business and nothing more nothing less” AMBARSARIA ji was talking about realization within and not involving a third person . I agree that there are many false saints or gurus but there must be some true one, one in millions that’s why guru sahib said “ਕੋਈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸਜਣੁਜੇਮਿਲੈਮੈਦਸੈਪ੍ਰਭੁਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ”. but U are not right in stating that you don’t need a third person, what you meant is you don’t need a guru & this is a statement directly opposite to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji . Otherwise guru sahb would not state what I mentioned in the shabads above. Guru nanak sahib would not clearly mention that “mein apna guru pooch dekhya” I’d also state that when guru nanak was here ,he was clearly against the rituals prevailing that time. SO I have to say that his guru must be a man. AND GURU SAHIB HAS SAID “”mein apna guru pooch dekhya”” Guru sahib says “pooch dekhya” not parh dekhya. And the verse “GURU MAANYO GRANTH” is not in our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So I have made my point clear that you need to have a true guru and follow what he tells you. This is the path of guru nanak and all the gurus. True guru will not tell you other stories, he might not benefit you from outside but he will from inside. TRUE guru is the true “AMRITSAR” where contaminated souls take bath and are purified , I can put a whole shabad from gurbani supporting this statement but it’ll increase the size of the post. 68 TEERATHS are in the feet of the true guru. TRUE guru will tell you about naam and not just AKHRI NAAM. I’ve always stated that by naam guru sahib never meant some written words , naam is a power which cannot be bound in words, which cannot be bound in a book. NAAM SHABAD BAANI HUKAM are all used in the same context in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. TRUE GURU has been given a lot of importance in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and also mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as I above mentioned, guru sahib says “ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪੁਰਖੁਨਾਭੇਟਿਓਸੇਭਾਗਹੀਣਵਸਿਕਾਲ” Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19986 Purkh (man )is used to signify the satguru or true guru. I think we all have to search for a true guru. Don’t know about all but I have to search as mentioned by guru sahib in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. THESE THOUGHTS ARE WRITTEN WITH A VERY OPEN MINDSET AS ASKED BY SRI AMBARSARIYA JI> DO READ THESE WITH OPEN MINDSET. THIS IS NOTHING BUT WRITTEN IN Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The answer to the first ques put forward has gotten so lengthy, it could have gotten more lengthy if I would give other examples from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But I decide to put a halt. I’ll answer other questions iun separate posts. REGARDS & THANKS *** |
04-Mar-2011, 03:46 AM
|  | Cleverness is not wisdom | | | Enrolled: May 3rd, 2010 Location: UK Age: 42
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| |  | | | Re: Serving a True Guru
Quote:
I’d also state that when guru nanak was here ,he was clearly against the rituals prevailing that time. SO I have to say that his guru must be a man. AND GURU SAHIB HAS SAID “”mein apna guru pooch dekhya””
Guru sahib says “pooch dekhya” not parh dekhya.
And the verse “GURU MAANYO GRANTH” is not in our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
| Dear Nirmaljot Ji
It's an interesting post
Re the part I have quoted above, from my limited knowledge it is my understanding that the 10th Guru bestowed Guruship upon Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.....
What are your views on this?
Before you answer, may I suggest you take some time to review this thread if you have not done so already:
Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth and the Radha Soami: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-...-hai-guru.html
Last edited by Seeker9; 04-Mar-2011 at 03:52 AM.
Reason: Decided to add link to previous thread
| | The following member appreciates Seeker9 Ji for the above message. | |
05-Mar-2011, 03:18 AM
|  |  ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār | | | Enrolled: Dec 21st, 2010
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| |  | | | Re: Serving a True Guru
Nirmaljot Baidwan ji I commented on your post below in red. Hope it is of value for your consideration. Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmaljot Baidwan  NOW I COME TO THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE THREAD
I put forward some questions and spnadmin ji requestioned those questions. I’d like to discuss my views with an open mind as suggested by Ambarsaria ji.
1st Ques- How do you define True Guru?
Ans- True guru (God within and discovery through the guidance in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) is the one who proscribes or prohibits (helps and leads) his follower or we can say sikhs from mundane deeds or mundane affairs or rituals (once you discover you don't need directions as to when to eat or what to eat or do, you are enlightened within and not a dependent person on anyone for spirituality) because a true guru tells us that these mundane deeds or rituals are not the right path to salvation or merging with the almighty (God is within you, where do you want to merge into! God's nature is all around with the same God embodiment, so synergistic working within and without is possible). Guru sahib has told us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that the true teerath or srovar(holy pond) is within us, inside us & not anywhere else.
A true guru will never tell us to be involved in rituals or mundane affairs (Enlightened does not need to classify) . He will not tell us stories (stories are a way of describing concepts and stories are not needed for people of all understandings. How many times you go to a Gurdwara that you feel you are smarter than the Katha person, Bhai ji, and the silent/vocal Babey, etc., it happens to me sometimes and it will happen differently to different people based on their level of understanding of Gurbani), he will tell us the truth, he will only speak about the truth, rather he’ll show you the truth. Is there any technique that guru will tell us to merge with him (again I don't understand this merging business, you have God within and God outside (both same), who you want to merge with to do what?) ??? Infact yes there must be a technique , that’s why guru nanak dev ji said in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on pg 58 ll੪ll ਹਉ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਆਪ੍ਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਉ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਓ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਮਿਲਾਵੜਾ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਚਿ ਮਿਲਾਓ ll੫ll (ਗੁਰ is God in the above, the supreme Guru if you wish and within you to discover) This is the verse between the number locks 4 & 5 of the shabad of Sri guru nanak dev ji. Guru sahib clearly tells us that “I ASKED MY GURU & THEN I STARTED TO WORK ON THE PATH AS TOLD BY MY GURU” . Guru sahib in other two lines of the verse tells us that after asking my guru (God) I started to n the path of shabad (Gurbani) & this destroyed my ego & after that gradually the true guru (ਸਾਚੇ) helped me meet the truth (ਸਾਚਿ). So its with the grace of true Guru Nanak met the truth , Guru Nanak who was himself SHABD SAROOP(form of shabd)needed a true guru (he believed in God as his Guru), then who are we , who can meet the truth on our own??? (Guru Nanak asked all to believe in one God, well summarized in mool mantir) One more interesting point here from this shabad is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a guru but there was a lot of ambiguity as to who was his guru (We should not confuse human teachers or wise men with Guru or God). But this ambiguity doesn’t change the fact (there is no fact to change) that We need a true guru. INTERESTINGLY I was further reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and I found another Shabad where Guru nanak talked about his Guru And his guru’s grace. On pg 14th Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ll ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉll llਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ll llਮਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ll੧ll llਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉll llਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ll੧llਰਹਾਉll (ਗੁਰੁ God) here again guru sahib is talking about his guru (God). So a guru is must (belief in God is a must). Also Guru nanak’s guru (God) must be a human (that is what Babeys, bad teachers and like want one to believe) a man (Guru Nanak left you his teaching and so did the others in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) as was with 2nd , 3rd ,4th ,5th ……..10th guru. Also guru raam dass ji says IN Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on pg 40 which bolsters the concept (this is the warning from people much wiser than us that if you are reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to bolster such things, you are going to miss the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) of a man being a true guru. ਨਾਮੁਮਿਲੈਮਨੁਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੀਐਬਿਨੁਨਾਮੈਧ੍ਰਿਗਜੀਵਾਸੁ ਕੋਈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸਜਣੁਜੇਮਿਲੈਮੈਦਸੈਪ੍ਰਭੁਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ ਹਉਤਿਸੁਵਿਟਹੁਚਉਖੰਨੀਐਮੈਨਾਮਕਰੇਪਰਗਾਸੁll੧ll ਮੇਰ੍ਰੇਪ੍ਰੀਤਮਾਹਉਜੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁਧਿਆਇ ਬਿਨੁਨਾਵੈਜੀਵਣੁਨਾਥੀਐਮੇਰੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਨਾਮੁਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏll੧llਰਹਾਉll ਨਾਮੁਅਮੋਲਕੁਰਤਨੁਹੈਪੂਰੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਪਾਸਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਸੇਵੈਲਗਿਆਕਢਿਰਤਨੁਦੇਵੈਪਰਗਾਸਿ ਧੰਨੁਵਡਭਾਗੀਵਡਭਾਗੀਆਜੋਆਇਮਿਲੇਗੁਰਪਾਸਿll੨ll ਜਿਨਾਸਤਿਗੁਰਪੁਰਖੁਨਾਭੇਟਿਓਸੇਭਾਗਹੀਣਵਸਿਕਾਲ ਓਇਫਿਰਿਫਿਰਿਜੋਨਿਭਵਾਈਅਹਿਵਿਚਿਵਿਸਟਾਕਰਿਵਿਕਰਾਲ ਓਹਨਾਪਾਸਿਦੁਆਸਿਣਭਿਟੀਐਜਿਨਅੰਤਰਕ੍ਰੋਧੁਚੰਡਾਲll ੩ll ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪੁਰਖੁਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰੁਵਡਭਾਗੀਨਾਵਹਿਆਇ ਉਨਜਨਮਜਨਮਕੀਮੈਲੁਉਤਰੈਨਿਰਮਲਨਾਮਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ ਜਾਂਨਾਨਕਉਤਮਪਦੁਪਾਇਆਸਤਿਗੁਰਕੀਲਿਵਲਾਇll I have quoted the whole shabd here but only to show that guru sahib has used the words “SAJJAN” & “PURKH” PURKH clearly stands for a “MAN”, SAJJAN is also used to describe the quality of a man where a person is very helpful or seeks our well being. Its written “KOI GURMUKH SAJJAN JE MILAI MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS” KOI signifies to me that probability of someone being a true guru is not very high but guru sahib says if you meet a true guru he will tell you about the GOD (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji startin gfrom mool mantir keeps telling you that don't try to define God completely, it is not possible. Once you develop faculties to understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, you don't need any one. Along the way you can have sharing as part of learning. None of such sharing entails calling anyone a Guru and have them hold your hand to discovery. You can definitely respect people for their help but they are not a path to God or the door keepers to enter God's abode or merging with the God that is already inside of you and all around you.) “MEIN DASSAI PRABH GUNTAAS” Guru sahib at some other place in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has mentioned that “ avar kaaj tere kitae naa kaam, mil saadh sangat (congregation; that is 1+1=3!, the benefit of good company) bhaj keval naam” Gurur sahib is askin us to meet a saadh (a learned man or teacher that can help but is not a Guru or wearing Kalgis, false personas, bhibuti, etc.,) or sant (What!) that’s why I asked AMBARSARIA JI that is Sikhism against saints???? He replied “This is one of the essences of our Gurus teachings to tell us that God/Sachkhand is within each of us. You don't need a third person to find what is inside you.
So Gurbani in Shabad after Shabad helps with this self discovery if you put your resources to it. Only a "Pakhandi" can let you hitch a ride to Sachkhand/God. Analogy is you probably seen lot of Babey/Pundits/Clairvoyants telling you on TV how they can solve all your problems and bring you luck. How come they cannot pick a lottery number every time (I am sure it is simpler than finding God) but are too happy to put their hand in your pocket. This is "Gol Mol" (a thievery) business and nothing more nothing less” AMBARSARIA ji was talking about realization within and not involving a third person . I agree that there are many false saints or gurus but there must be some true one (only truth is God) , one in millions that’s why guru sahib said “ਕੋਈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸਜਣੁਜੇਮਿਲੈਮੈਦਸੈਪ੍ਰਭੁਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ”. but U are not right in stating that you don’t need a third person (Intent is to understand the though which is that for example, I don't Radhaswami, Dhnadriawala, Nanaksaria leader, and any such. I can perhaps get greater benefit from talking to Prakash S. Bagga ji, Gyani Jarnail Singh ji, Tejwant Singh ji, spnadmin ji, Aman Singh ji, Randip Singh ji, Souljyot ji, findingmyway ji, etc., that is learning), what you meant is you don’t need a guru & this is a statement directly opposite to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Not!) . Otherwise guru sahb would not state what I mentioned in the shabads above. Guru nanak sahib would not clearly mention that “mein apna guru pooch dekhya” (I asked my God) I’d also state that when guru nanak was here ,he was clearly against the rituals prevailing that time. SO I have to say that his guru must be a man. AND GURU SAHIB HAS SAID “”mein apna guru pooch dekhya”” Guru sahib says “pooch dekhya” not parh dekhya. And the verse “GURU MAANYO GRANTH” is not in our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (sorry this is not structured so I don't understand what it adds to what you stated in previous paragraph/lines). So I have made my point clear that you need to have a true guru (God) and follow (understand God through Gurbani) what he tells you (Sri Gur Granth Sahib ji is a teaching, once you learn you will know yourself and won't need to be told). This is the path of guru nanak and all the gurus (Believing in God and being one with evrything God created including oneself). True guru will not tell you other stories (repetition already commented above), he might not benefit you from outside but he will from inside. TRUE guru (you are always in God's srovar you don't need baths and purification, it is for you to understand it.) is the true “AMRITSAR” where contaminated souls take bath and are purified , I can put a whole shabad from gurbani supporting this statement but it’ll increase the size of the post. 68 TEERATHS are in the feet of the true guru (literals will take you away from the God within and the God outside, please avoid if you can). TRUE guru will tell you about naam (naam is God, and Gurbani is a way to understand God. What is this naam business (I think Narankaria, Radhaswami, Namdharias , and other misguided feed such lines.) and not just AKHRI NAAM. I’ve always stated that by naam guru sahib never meant some written words , naam is a power which cannot be bound in words, which cannot be bound in a book (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji enables you to see God and God's omni-potence it is for you to fathom it for yourself. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji does not put limit on the size of your understanding which can be limitless . NAAM SHABAD BAANI HUKAM are all used in the same context in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. TRUE GURU (one God, there is no adjective like TRUE needed) has been given a lot of importance in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and also mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as I above mentioned, guru sahib says “ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪੁਰਖੁਨਾਭੇਟਿਓਸੇਭਾਗਹੀਣਵਸਿਕਾਲ” Purkh (man ) (good company) is used to signify the satguru or true guru (companions on a common journey starting from different places and ending in different places in time and location, not a bus driver taking the bus to wherever God is. Remember what needs to be discovered and understood is all around and within). I think we all have to search for a true guru (Not, you need to develop understanding of God). Don’t know about all but I have to search as mentioned by guru sahib in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. THESE THOUGHTS ARE WRITTEN WITH A VERY OPEN MINDSET AS ASKED BY SRI AMBARSARIYA JI> DO READ THESE WITH OPEN MINDSET. THIS IS NOTHING BUT WRITTEN IN Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Read with open mind and commented with open mind, so we all learn and share). The answer to the first ques put forward has gotten so lengthy, it could have gotten more lengthy if I would give other examples (not needed as it is the biggest pitfall to seek what you want to prove through Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Object is to not translate but understand.) from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But I decide to put a halt (That is great ) . I’ll answer other questions iun separate posts. REGARDS & THANKS *** | Sat Sri Akal. | | The following members appreciate Ambarsaria Ji for the above message. | |
05-Mar-2011, 04:45 AM
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