SGGSJ Ang 982



bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]
baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee anmrith saarae ||
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gur insqwry ]5]gur baanee kehai saevak jan maanai parathakh guroo nisathaarae ||5||

If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||



It has been stated that bani is Nirankaar. This ,sometimes, creates confusion as as per this, if literally, taken Sri Guru Granth sahib ji would be Nirankaar -swroop.

But what does it mean for a layman?I may not be able to phrase my question properly. However, all that following will clarify.

1.Does it mean that all that is written is verbatim correct? or

2. Does it mean that it has come from the mouth Of the Creator and hence all that is written is correct and true?

3.Does it mean that if it is from Nirankaar there should not be any emotional/sentimental expressions as Creator is above all?

4.What are the other meanings that can be assigned to it so that Bani is interpreted accordingly.?

5.Should the interpretaion Of gurbani be literal or in some other manner?

6. There many Tuks that are 'stand alone' and these independently would not carry weight. These get some meaning when some assignment is to be done. How should one proceed in such cases. Should the 'stand -alone' lines be interpreted as it is or some assignment should be made as per one's understanding.?In such cases there are chances that there may be some element of subjectivity and hence difference in interpretations.

7. Should we assign meanings as per literal usage of the words or some common sense be applied?

There can be other ways of looking at the things i.e
1.should the translation be literal or
2.contextual or
3.as per the standard golden rule i.e no absurdity is possible in the matter Of interpretations , if any interpretations offer such a thing the translation should be discarded.
4. Rule Of Best Fit i.e hybrid interpretation.

Inputs from sangat are invited with a request that since we may be quoting Gurbani one may not criticize the other member and give own views instead. Yes, one may take a permission from the member before quoting from the post of the earlier member.We all love God and that is why we are here.Let us make it pleasant wherever possible.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

I am recirculating for the members consideration.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

Sikh80 ji

This could be a long research paper. And an interesting one as long as the sources were very high quality and reference were made to Guruji throughout, the path taken that of Gurmat.

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ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ man karehalaa gur govindh samaal O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe.

Yes, it is the only way that we can reach the translations in a correct manner. However, who require will to do it.

I shall go in for hybrid format of interpretation i.e contextual and the best fit i.e the translation does not lead to absurdity esp. in stand alone type of interpretation .
like
Brahmgyani is Nirankaar.

Is it possible.?

On the other way round

Nirankaar is Brahmgyani.


However, things will not change much for those who read english Translation.It is another grey area and many Indian sikhs have also been misled by the translators. The suggestion is for those who refer gurmukhi version of the scriptures and arrive at correct meaning.For those reading english translation will not ever reach the correct meaning.They will always be trapped into by the translator.There are many words in punjabi whose equivalent in english is absent. One can tell many esp. those where there is a concept. Chardi-kala is an example of this kind.Can one describe the meaning in english n one word.Never.It shall take atleast hours of discussions to tell someone the meaning.On net it cannot be explained even.One can just give a broad picture of the likely meaning.

Similarly, The Bani nirankaar is a metaphor. Bani cannot be truth and true if it is applied to all the tuks. There will be many things that will not stand the test of correctness.
if we say ' all meditate upon you'. Is it correct.? No , It is not.
The fact is only a small percentage of the total population may meditate upon the lord. hence these are technical fallacies.Bani is truth to the extent the message is provided.Everything is not right.

Why should Nirankaar address his beings as 'Fools'. This is again the logical fallacy.There are many hence we can only take mesages to be the gift of bani.
bhul chuk mauf..

The suggestion is not workable on the forum. Let us proceed the way we are doing.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

Dah!!! Oh dear..

( and double dah!!! http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19633-sex-the-feed-of-body-soul.html )

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enjoy yourself.It is your day. But remember this is a forum of gurbani Vichaar and you should be doing the same.The moderators are very strict.This is a confedential information that I am passing on please do not tell this to any one.
~SSA~

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

Zee beeg probleme mon ami is this.

Gurbani is poetry. Poetry in any language does not in every verse in every line depend on literal meaning. Or it would not be poetry but prose. Even reading in Punjabi, the verses, the words would not have literal reference to ordinary definitions and use. There is no way to avoid a discussion of what this poet, a poet, any poet intended. Whether you read the scripture in Gurmukhi or another language. The imagery in Punjabi is still imagery. And somehow must be mapped on to imagery in English, or French, or German.

Plus - Gurbani is not written in modern Punjabi, or only in Punjabi alone. Even a Punjabi speaker must make allowances for words from perhaps 6 other languages found in the scripture.

How does one explain this without discussion?
ਵਡਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਆਦਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਜੀਉ ॥
vaddaa maeraa govindh agam agochar aadh niranjan nirankaar jeeo ||
My Lord of the Universe is great, unapproachable, unfathomable, primal, immaculate and formless.

Understanding is translation.

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ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ man karehalaa gur govindh samaal O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe.

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ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ man karehalaa gur govindh samaal O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe.

Note : The above 3/4 posts are authored by the moderators of the site. Probably they have the right to author that they want and spoil or block the thread that they do not want to promote

Guru Sahibs have put great support on the Bani as well. It is not to state that it is equivalent to anything else.Gurbani has its own inherent power or the intrinsic power.
Sing the praises of the Guru or Lord-Bani


[The One Lord is pervading and permeating deep within the heart; with your mouth, recite the Ambrosial Hymns of the Guru. ||1||Pause||][366-12]

In the present context the ‘Guru’ would stand for the creator or the primal being. The Sikhs put lot of importance to remembering Him and thanking HIM for all that He has given the mankind/mortals. The utterance of Gurbani is also one one of the nucleus concept of the Sikhs. The keetan of the ‘sabad’ of Bani sung in the praise of the Lord has been stated as the support of the life of a devotee.


[The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my Support; this wealth is everlasting.[398-2]


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Gurmukhi lines are not given as these could not be properly formatted.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~