Guru and God No Difference

Thankyou so much for starting this thread. Reading through this thread creates a feeling of watching a video about- Guru Arjan Dev Ji vs Chandoo.

This thread has made this neech realize how to ignore the work of Iness(own and others both). It has turned into a great lesson for me moor. Before I used to be scared of talking about Guru Shabad like this - God and Guru no difference, All is He Himself, We need to accept whatever happens as His Will. But after reading this thread again and again, I know already what any other person who doesn't believe in God can come up with to oppose or try to manipulate the truth, there is nothing to be scared of. Guru Shabad is the Only Truth- Aad Sach Jugaad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosee Bhi Sach.

Like a boot camp, It shaped me well. I am all set.

Thank you.

 
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ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਦੇਉ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਉ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਪੂਜ ਚਰਨ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਉ ॥੧॥ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੈ ਥਾਉ ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਪਉ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਰਹਉ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਿ ॥ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਹੋਰੁ ॥੨॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਭਵ ਪਾਰਿ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਛੁਟਕਾਰਿ ॥ ਅੰਧਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਗਲ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥੩॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 864}
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/19106-guru-and-god-no-difference.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106
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pdArQ:- BgvMqu—smrQw vwlw [ dyau—pRkwS-rUp pRBU [ AlK—A-l`K, ijs dw srUp ibAwn qoN pry hY [ AByau—A-Byau, ijs dw Byq nhIN pwieAw jw skdw [ srb pUj crn gur—gurU dy crn ijnHW dI pUjw swrI isRStI krdI hY [ syau—syauN, mYN syNvdw hW [1[
Avru Qwau—hor QW [ Anidnu—hr roz [ jpau—jpauN, mYN jpdw hW [1[rhwau[
igAwnu—Dwrimk crcw [ irdY—ihrdy ivc [ iDAwnu—smwDI [ rhau—rhauN, mYN rihMdw hW [ kr joir—(dovyN) h`Q joV ky [ horu—hor QW [2[
boihbu—jhwz [ Bv—sMswr-smuMdr [ qy—qoN [ Cutkwir—^lwsI [ AMDkwr—Gu`p hnyrw [ mMqRü—aupdyS, Sbd [ aujwrw—cwnx [ kY sMig—dI sMgiq ivc [ sgl—swry jIv [ insqwrw—pwr-auqwrw [3[
vfBwgI—v`fy BwgW nwl [ pweIAY—imldw hY [4[

************************************************** ******************

ArQ:- hy BweI! (mwieAw dy moh dy Gu`p hnyry ivcoN bcx leI) gurU qoN ibnw mYƒ koeI hor QW nhIN su`Jdw (ijs dw Awsrw lY skW [ so) mYN hr vyly gurU dw nwm hI jpdw hW (gurU dI Et q`kI bYTw hW) [1[rhwau[

hy BweI! (myrw) gurU (gurU dI srn hI) myry vwsqy (dyv-) pUjw hY, (myrw) gurU goibMd (dw rUp) hY [ myrw gurU prmwqmw (dw rUp) hY, gurU bVI smrQw dw mwlk hY [ myrw gurU aus pRkwS-rUp pRBU dw rUp hY ijs dw srUp ibAwn nhIN kIqw jw skdw Aqy ijs dw Byq nhIN pwieAw jw skdw [ mYN qW auhnW gur-crnW dI srn ipAw rihMdw hW ijnHW ƒ swrI isRStI pUjdI hY [1[
hy BweI! gurU hI myry vwsqy Dwrimk crcw hY, gurU (sdw myry) ihrdy ivc itikAw hoieAw hY, iehI myrI smwDI hY [ gurU aus Bgvwn dw rUp hY jo srb-ivAwpk hY Aqy isRStI dw pwlxhwr hY [ mYN (Awpxy) dovyN h`Q joV ky (sdw) gurU dI srn ipAw rihMdw hW [ gurU qoN ibnw mYƒ koeI hor Awsrw nhIN su`Jdw [2[

hy BweI! gurU jhwz hY jo sMswr-smuMdr qoN pwr lµGw lYNdw hY [ gurU dI srn ipAW jmW (dy fr) qoN ^lwsI iml jWdI hY [ (mwieAw dy moh dy) Gu`p hnyry ivc gurU dw aupdyS hI (Awqmk jIvn dw) cwnx dyNdw hY [ gurU dI sMgiq ivc irhW swry jIvW dw pwr-auqwrw ho jWdw hY [3[

hy BweI! v`fI iksmq nwl pUrw gurU iml imldw hY [ gurU dI srn ipAW koeI du`K poh nhIN skdw [ (ijs mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc) gurU dw Sbd (v`s pey aus dy AMdroN) koeI mnu`K (Awqmk jIvn dy aujwry ƒ) imtw nhIN skdw [ hy BweI! gurU nwnk aus prmwqmw dw rUp hY [4[7[9[ ************************************************** *****

I am no one to explain the meanings of Gubani, however as per that is available with me is the commentary of Dr. Sahib Singh ji.

I am psoting the relevant shabad and the lines that are being discussed are included in it.The lines in shabad and the meaning are colored in blue.

I am tempted to write this post as the post on 'Guru Nanak is the Guru and the lord' is equally affected by this post.

WE can rely upon Sahib singh ji's commentary as it is the only Teeka available on net and makes things easier so far as quoting from it is concerned.

I am inclined to be corrected if there is some flaw in the above.

It is the stated position Of Guru's as per the Basics of Sikhi.

Bhul Chuk Mauf

DaanVeer Ji,

Gurbani tells us that whenever anybody will say the Word of God loudly, it is going to hurt the non believers(manmukhs), and they will oppose. The inner koor cant let them hear(believe) Gurbani, Naam, GurShabad.
Live Example here.

As you say, this happens to strenghthen our belief. I take it as a medicine/tonic/therapy. I read through it every once in a while. Boot Camp Experience.

I think this thread is a very good read.

May God Bless all.
Let us pray for Sarbat Da Bhalaa

I am new to Sikhi. All I do at this point is meditate in the morning, try to remember the Name of God in all I do, and read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji every day, along with some books on the lives of the Gurus and history of Sikhi. So, please forgive me if I am off base here but this is the way I understand these references to God, Guru in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so far:

There are references to God the Creator as in Ek Ong Kar, then there are references to Guru Nanak. There are also references to a Guru that are similar to what I think of as the Holy Spirit. Now, I am coming from Christianity so there will be some comparisons. That is for no reason other than to explain. This Guru seems to be refered to as sort of an understanding that God blesses one with. It is not God exactly but is part of God and seems to be a sort of guide and helper towards understanding God. Almost like my voice... it is not me exactly but is part of me and I can use it to help you understand me and guide you. Kind of like that.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106

They are part of one, and Guru is definitely part of God but Guru is not God entirely. And the Earthly human teachers, our Gurus were sent by God as his representatives and helpers...

Again, forgive me if I am wrong but this is the way I understand it. And it does seem to me that it might be difficult for us to understand because humans seem to want to worship humans. But I think its important to remember that the guiding principal of Guru Nanak was Ek Ong Kar -- there is only One God.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106

Respectfully,

Caroline

Sat sri akal Caroline ji!
You might know the sukhmani, if not read it, it´s beautiful.
On this topic I´d like to add the 8. ashtapadee. But as it´s too long to copy and paste all of ot I sized it down. I hope you don´t mind.

salok. Shalok:
man saachaa mukh saachaa so-ay. The True One is on his mind, and the True One is upon his lips.
avar na paykhai aykas bin ko-ay. He sees only the One.
naanak ih lachhan barahm gi-aanee ho-ay. ||1|| O Nanak, these are the qualities of the God-conscious being. ||1|

naanak barahm gi-aanee aap parmaysur. ||6|| O Nanak, the God-conscious being is Himself the Supreme Lord God. ||6||

barahm gi-aanee kee keemat naahi. The God-conscious being cannot be appraised.
barahm gi-aanee kai sagal man maahi. The God-conscious being has all within his mind.
barahm gi-aanee kaa ka-un jaanai bhayd. Who can know the mystery of the God-conscious being?
barahm gi-aanee ka-o sadaa adays. Forever bow to the God-conscious being.
barahm gi-aanee kaa kathi-aa na jaa-ay aDhaakh-yar. The God-conscious being cannot be described in words.
barahm gi-aanee sarab kaa thaakur. The God-conscious being is the Lord and Master of all.
barahm gi-aanee kee mit ka-un bakhaanai. Who can describe the limits of the God-conscious being?
barahm gi-aanee kee gat barahm gi-aanee jaanai. Only the God-conscious being can know the state of the God-conscious being.
barahm gi-aanee kaa ant na paar. The God-conscious being has no end or limitation.
naanak barahm gi-aanee ka-o sadaa namaskaar. ||7|| O Nanak, to the God-conscious being, bow forever in reverence. ||7||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106

barahm gi-aanee sabh sarisat kaa kartaa. The God-conscious being is the Creator of all the world.
barahm gi-aanee sad jeevai nahee martaa. The God-conscious being lives forever, and does not die.
barahm gi-aanee mukat jugat jee-a kaa daataa. The God-conscious being is the Giver of the way of liberation of the soul.
barahm gi-aanee pooran purakh biDhaataa. The God-conscious being is the Perfect Supreme Being, who orchestrates all.
barahm gi-aanee anaath kaa naath. The God-conscious being is the helper of the helpless.
barahm gi-aanee kaa sabh oopar haath. The God-conscious being extends his hand to all.
barahm gi-aanee kaa sagal akaar. The God-conscious being owns the entire creation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106
barahm gi-aanee aap nirankaar. The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.
barahm gi-aanee kee sobhaa barahm gi-aanee banee. The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone.
naanak barahm gi-aanee sarab kaa Dhanee. ||8||8|| O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8||

salok. Shalok:
ur Dhaarai jo antar naam. One who enshrines the Naam within the heart,
sarab mai paykhai bhagvaan. who sees the Lord God in all,
nimakh nimakh thaakur namaskaarai. who, each and every moment, bows in reverence to the Lord Master
naanak oh apras sagal nistaarai. ||1|| - O Nanak, such a one is the true 'touch-nothing Saint', who emancipates everyone. ||1||

Here's another reference on God-conscious:-
Page 1373, Line 17
ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਭਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19106
कबीर मनु सीतलु भइआ पाइआ ब्रहम गिआनु ॥
Kabīr man sīṯal bẖa­i­ā pā­i­ā barahm gi­ān.
Kabeer, my mind is cooled and soothed; I have become God-conscious.
Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Caroline Ji,

People have made several thousand defintions of Sikh Religion. We are not talking about scholarly evaluations of some type. We are talking Guru's Word.

This is Gurmat Section. And I suppose we should talk about Gurmat(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) here.

In Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there are hundreds of references where it is told the there is no difference what so ever. There is no SECOND. Svea Ji gave such a beautiful reference post # 286.
Guru and God and a saint/brahmgyani/God realized cant be distinguished. Distinguishing them (calling them two seperate entities) is practicing DUALITY.

A very simple one in Assa Di Vaar:

the closest analogy i can think of to christianity is the following verse:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1


compare to sikhi:

Baani Guru hai baani vich Bani amrit saare: Bani is Guru (God) and Guru is Bani; within the whole of the Bani, Amrit (nectar) is present (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 982).

and

Gur Parmesur eko jaan: Guru and God are one and the same (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 864).

both faiths agree... the word IS God. in our case, the word is Guru and Guru is God.

i hope this isn't too confusing.


regarding the holy spirit comparison, i usually think of Jot as comparable to the christian idea of holy spirit. the jot is god's light, inside of every living thing. we can't see it or touch it... but it's there. we just have to access it.

Only in the sense that God speaks through me(and everything else) just as God spoke through Guru Nanak.